Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[RickshawFan]

From your link - definitely inviting!

View attachment 306093

That’s a cliff, @otto . The trail goes down that cliff. You can tell from the elevation profile I posted ^^^^. Sick!

 

[Federico_A]

Could be that everyone is way off the mark on this.
There's no route between Sauvegarde and Porte de la Glere along the ridge, other than a mountaineering one. (See pic: Sauvegarde at top left, Glere at bottom right). She would have to go all the way down to the road on the Spanish side and back up again. And she wouldn't do that unless she was also planning to go the whole way round along the route de l'imperatrice through the forest on the French side and back over the mountains at Port de Vanesque. And I don't think she would do that as it would be a significant undertaking at that time of year and would take so much extra time - I find it hard to believe she was carrying enough food for the extended hike and would risk a change in the weather which might trap her on the French side. And if she did go back down to the road (or to the van to stock up), then she would have been able to send further messages to confirm her plan.

I don't even believe she went round to Porte de la Glere via Vanesque as that would also mean a spontaneous and somewhat reckless trip extension along a route that she didn't ought to be on due to travel restrictions.

I doubt Esther went to Porte de la Glere at all and the presence of the skull there doesn't necessarily mean she did.

Trying to make sense of her message though - I wonder if she thought it was somehow possible to take a short cut from Sauvegarde along the ridge to Porte de Glere? The route looks impossible on satellite images and would be reckless in the extreme. She might have tried it out and got into difficulties. I'm not sure how inclined she was to go off-path but it's the only accident-scenario that seems plausible to me.

 

[otto]

This seems to be a trail up from the Hospital… though the post I have ^^^^ shows no trail
Port De La Glere

This link shows the trail with the black dashed line. The trail goes from the trailhead/parking lot, up the mountain to Port de la Glere, crosses into France and loops around to the Refuge de Venasque.

OpenTopoMap - Topographische Karten aus OpenStreetMap

 

[RickshawFan]

Something is off about someone recommending this hike on Nov 19, shortly before she embarked on the hike. Was there a misunderstanding? Was it bravado? Bragging? Daring?

Even if the recommendation was Pic de Sauvegarde, to Port de Venasque, to Refuge de Venasque, to Port de la Glere, to the trailhead, conditions in France near the Port de la Glere in late-November are clearly dangerous. Route safety depends entirely on weather. Within days of her hike, on Nov 27, that region was under cloud and snow until Spring.

If she started the hike at the refuge, she would have been short on supplies by the time she ran into trouble on the France side of the Port de la Glere. Turning around could have meant going for 24 hours without food.

I hope her gear is found soon, as it will tell us more about her route and her circumstances.

She could have gone 24 hours without food. It wouldn’t be fun, and you’d be very cold, but you’d probably be okay. If you had a stove and enough fuel, you could boil yourself some hot water. I wonder if she left the stove behind thinking she had no need to cook?
This is why you always carry an extra meal plus energy bars.

 

[otto]

Hike from Hospice to Port de la Glėre elevation profile. See how it’s near vertical as you approach the top?
Trail Walking at Bagnères-de-Luchon: Port de la Glere | SityTrail

That is very likely where things went wrong. The link I posted from the hiker who was in the area said that it is snow on top, above a vertical drop.

 

[RickshawFan]

Could be that everyone is way off the mark on this.
There's no route between Sauvegarde and Porte de la Glere along the ridge, other than a mountaineering one. (See pic: Sauvegarde at top left, Glere at bottom right). She would have to go all the way down to the road on the Spanish side and back up again. And she wouldn't do that unless she was also planning to go the whole way round along the route de l'imperatrice through the forest on the French side and back over the mountains at Port de Vanesque. And I don't think she would do that as it would be a significant undertaking at that time of year and would take so much extra time - I find it hard to believe she was carrying enough food for the extended hike and would risk a change in the weather which might trap her on the French side. And if she did go back down to the road (or to the van to stock up), then she would have been able to send further messages to confirm her plan.

I don't even believe she went round to Porte de la Glere via Vanesque as that would also mean a spontaneous and somewhat reckless trip extension along a route that she didn't ought to be on due to travel restrictions.

I doubt Esther went to Porte de la Glere at all and the presence of the skull there doesn't necessarily mean she did.

Trying to make sense of her message though - I wonder if she thought it was somehow possible to take a short cut from Sauvegarde along the ridge to Porte de Glere? The route looks impossible on satellite images and would be reckless in the extreme. She might have tried it out and got into difficulties. I'm not sure how inclined she was to go off-path but it's the only accident-scenario that seems plausible to me.

I think some of us are coming around to the idea that ED did indeed go down to the Cabane for the night and then ascended out of the valley to the Port de la Glėre. She did a parallel route when she went up the Pic after staying at the Cabane. She could have had an accident on this side of the mountain, actually. A vulture then would have ridden an updraft and dropped the skull on the other side of the mountain.
But you’re right, something else entirely could have been going on.

 

[otto]

Could be that everyone is way off the mark on this.
There's no route between Sauvegarde and Porte de la Glere along the ridge, other than a mountaineering one. (See pic: Sauvegarde at top left, Glere at bottom right). She would have to go all the way down to the road on the Spanish side and back up again. And she wouldn't do that unless she was also planning to go the whole way round along the route de l'imperatrice through the forest on the French side and back over the mountains at Port de Vanesque. And I don't think she would do that as it would be a significant undertaking at that time of year and would take so much extra time - I find it hard to believe she was carrying enough food for the extended hike and would risk a change in the weather which might trap her on the French side. And if she did go back down to the road (or to the van to stock up), then she would have been able to send further messages to confirm her plan.

I don't even believe she went round to Porte de la Glere via Vanesque as that would also mean a spontaneous and somewhat reckless trip extension along a route that she didn't ought to be on due to travel restrictions.

I doubt Esther went to Porte de la Glere at all and the presence of the skull there doesn't necessarily mean she did.

Trying to make sense of her message though - I wonder if she thought it was somehow possible to take a short cut from Sauvegarde along the ridge to Porte de Glere? The route looks impossible on satellite images and would be reckless in the extreme. She might have tried it out and got into difficulties. I'm not sure how inclined she was to go off-path but it's the only accident-scenario that seems plausible to me.

True, there is no route from Pic de Sauvegarde to Port de la Glere. Esther would have either camped open, or stayed in the refuge she stayed at the previous nights, prior to hiking from a location in Spain to Port de la Glere. She had to return to the trailhead to hike the route to the Port de la Glere, or she could have hiked there via the Refuge de Venasque.

I have wondered whether she thought she could create a new trail between Pic de Sauvegarde and Port de la Glere, following animal trails (as that is mentioned in her blog) between the two points on the mountain ridges. At this point, I'm assuming that the bones belong to Esther and that she hiked to the Port de la Glere either from the trailhead or from the Refuge de Venasque. I don't believe that skull, hair and bones were put in one location by animals except if the body was originally nearby.

 

[otto]

She could have gone 24 hours without food. It wouldn’t be fun, and you’d be very cold, but you’d probably be okay. If you had a stove and enough fuel, you could boil yourself some hot water. I wonder if she left the stove behind thinking she had no need to cook?
This is why you always carry an extra meal plus energy bars.

She probably had to make a decision at some point - to forge ahead or turn back. Turning back may have been as technically difficult as forging ahead, or it could have meant having no supplies for too long.

We know that she was asking strangers for food on the second summit hike to Sauvegarde. We know that there was some confusion/confrontation about chia seeds being on sale when she purchased supplies for her hike. We know that another hiker shared food with her shortly before this hike. I think that money was tight. I think she travelled very light and expected to encounter other hikers who would share supplies with her. I think she miscalculated on several fronts during this 4 day hike.

 

[Seni]

Always follow these threads, long time since posting, but you all make very significant points especially as regards maps and trails and possible re-routes.

After so much time looking at dossier and articles, I think it is possible that ED got really tired with Dan, after all not many are still with their 18 year old sweethearts after so long <modsnip: Not victim friendly>

But then I think about her parents..and I am lost

 

[RickshawFan]

If ED came up from the Hôpital, she would have got to the Port de la Glère presumably around 4pm, just like the trip to the Pic. It's not an easy trip, either. The Glère valley is V-shaped and has deep shadows. It's not open like the Refuge de Venasque. It would have been in almost darkness at that time. She wouldn't have had enough headlamp light to get her back down to the valley (the Bindi lumens are low and they only last 2 hours before recharging is necessary), but there might have been a shepherd's bothy between the crest and the Hôpital or else there's that little lake. Almost certainly, there had been previous camps there, because it's scenic. It's kind of an obvious place.

The evenings these nights went below freezing.... In the shadow, the temperatures would have started to drop much earlier.

 

[RickshawFan]

She probably had to make a decision at some point - to forge ahead or turn back. Turning back may have been as technically difficult as forging ahead, or it could have meant having no supplies for too long.

We know that she was asking strangers for food on the second summit hike to Sauvegarde. We know that there was some confusion/confrontation about chia seeds being on sale when she purchased supplies for her hike. We know that another hiker shared food with her shortly before this hike. I think that money was tight. I think she travelled very light and expected to encounter other hikers who would share supplies with her. I think she miscalculated on several fronts during this 4 day hike.

If she was going clockwise, she soon would have access to food, namely back at the van, though I can't imagine how she thought she would get to Venasque, since the road to the Hôpital was deserted in winter and because of COVID. The Hôpital was closed.

 

[Satchie]

I don't even believe she went round to Porte de la Glere via Vanesque as that would also mean a spontaneous and somewhat reckless trip extension along a route that she didn't ought to be on due to travel restrictions.

RSBM

But that was exactly her planned route that she discussed with, probably, her father, and Dan. This is the relevant page from the dossier



As it discusses, the total route after the Venasque refuge is 16 k, 1100 m elevation. Could be done as a dayhike, but since she had all her gear, she could have chosen to have taken longer.

It's all a high elevation mountain plateau, I don't think she cared whether it was technically in France or not. The mountains were there long before they were artificially divided by borders.

 

[Satchie]

We know that she was asking strangers for food on the second summit hike to Sauvegarde.

IMO this tiny detail of asking a fellow hiker if they had extra fruit has been really overblown. It doesn't mean she had no proper food, it just means she had no fresh fruit (which gets hopelessly squashed and messy in an overnight pack.)

A backpacker needs to consume hundreds of calories per day, not an apple and a few chia seeds.

<modsnip>

 

[otto]

Always follow these threads, long time since posting, but you all make very significant points especially as regards maps and trails and possible re-routes.

After so much time looking at dossier and articles, I think it is possible that ED got really tired with Dan, after all not many are still with their 18 year old sweethearts after so long <modsnip: Not victim friendly>

But then I think about her parents..and I am lost

It has always been on the table that Esther leaned towards ending her life. Shortly before she vanished, Dan published something about hiking mountains. I think it was reviewed/released by the BBC around the time that she vanished. The titles sound like something that Esther came up with.

It's obvious that Esther is a big part of any hiking and children's books written by Dan Colgate, but she is listed as editor of his hiking books - at best. I think that's harsh since they both lived the same 6 years of hiking and they both contributed to the book. They should have been equal co-authors of all books - in my opinion. Instead, they appear competitive. They released a couple of children's books about their dogs. With Esther gone, is that the end of future books for children? Is Dan Colgate listed as a co-author for the children's books?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...8BDKB2N5&revisionId=830df670&format=1&depth=1

I recall that when I first looked at their book releases, I was surprised that Esther was not named as a co-author of the hiking books. That omission could be something that would not feel good for her.

She spoke with other hikers during her month of solo nomadic hiking, and at least one mentioned that Esther shared her belief that her 20 year relationship with Dan was at a crossroads. He wanted to return to the UK, using Brexit as a reason. She wanted to continue living root-less and free.

Didn't she speak with both of her parents, and Dan, from the Pic de Sauvegarde on the second hike to the summit in two days? Dan hadn't heard from her for a few days, same with her parents, IIRC. She was at the summit two days in a row - with wifi - but we've only heard about texts and conversations on the second day with both parents and Dan.

She told Dan that she was staying in the area, hiking to Port de la Glere. Dipping into France and hoping there's a Winter room - that has a different feel to it. As an experienced hiker, why didn't she know that the Refuge de Venasque has a Winter room. We know after 2 minutes searching the net. Why did she not know - or did she know - in which case, why say that she is "hoping?"

 

[RickshawFan]

I have wondered whether she thought she could create a new trail between Pic de Sauvegarde and Port de la Glere, following animal trails (as that is mentioned in her blog) between the two points on the mountain ridges.

Snipped for focus.
I can't even imagine someone deciding to do this, on a solo hike, no one around, in November. But then again, there was so much inexperience here, so many risks that weren't gauged....

 

[RickshawFan]

She told Dan that she was staying in the area, hiking to Port de la Glere. Dipping into France and hoping there's a Winter room - that has a different feel to it. As an experienced hiker, why didn't she know that the Refuge de Venasque has a Winter room. We know after 2 minutes searching the net. Why did she not know - or did she know - in which case, why say that she is "hoping?"

Snipped for focus.
All of a sudden, I got the idea that she might be referring to the Refugio at la Glère, and not the one at Venasque. Maybe DC assumed she would travel anti-clockwise, as someone has suggested, when she intended to hike clock-wise. In that case, the obvious Refugio is the one at La Glère. That might be where she was intending to spend the night, and something happened on the way.

 

[otto]

If ED came up from the Hôpital, she would have got to the Port de la Glère presumably around 4pm, just like the trip to the Pic. It's not an easy trip, either. The Glère valley is V-shaped and has deep shadows. It's not open like the Refuge de Venasque. It would have been in almost darkness at that time. She wouldn't have had enough headlamp light to get her back down to the valley (the Bindi lumens are low and they only last 2 hours before recharging is necessary), but there might have been a shepherd's bothy between the crest and the Hôpital or else there's that little lake. Almost certainly, there had been previous camps there, because it's scenic. It's kind of an obvious place.

The evenings these nights went below freezing.... In the shadow, the temperatures would have started to drop much earlier.

Exactly. If she slept open that night, which she mentioned she wanted to try on the mountain slopes in France, it would have been a shorter hike. According to the couple she met while ascending Pic de Sauvegarde the second time, her pack was heavy, she was ascending the summit late in the day and she asked for fruit. Perhaps she had everything on her back because she was planning to bivouac.

Perhaps she stayed somewhere in between, and arrived at the Port de la Glere around noon.

It sounds like it's an 8-9 hours hike (as a Summer running route) that she planned for one day between Port de la Glere and Refuge de Venasque. As the Keeper of the Refuge de Venasque is quoted as saying, it's a long hike with unpredictable circumstances when the trails are closed during Winter.

Dan said that she hikes faster than estimated times for hikes. So for Dan and Esther, perhaps an 8-9 hour hike is planned as 6 hours. That could mean arriving at the Port de la Glere at noon and expecting to arrive at Refuge de Venasque at 6 PM, just before dusk. Given the technical difficulty of the Port de la Glere during Winter, when trails are closed, I don't think that Esther could hike faster than others.

If she arrived at the Port de la Glere at noon and decided to descend, I think it was all over by 4 PM. I agree that by 4 PM, Esther would have been in the shadows hiking the French side of Port de la Glere.

If she was at the Refuge de Venasque and intended to hike over the Port de la Glere to the trailhead, and if she left at 10 AM, she would have arrived at the dicey steep end of the trail around 4 PM - in the shadow of the mountain, cold, wind gusts, slippery with cloud moisture and dusting of snow.

Either way, in my opinion, she was hooped once she was at that location - if it is her. Again, I'm curious why someone suggested this route to her on Nov 19, days before she embarked on the deadly hike.

 

[RickshawFan]

Exactly. If she slept open that night, which she mentioned she wanted to try on the mountain slopes in France, it would have been a shorter hike. According to the couple she met while ascending Pic de Sauvegarde the second time, her pack was heavy, she was ascending the summit late in the day and she asked for fruit. Perhaps she had everything on her back because she was planning to bivouac.

Perhaps she stayed somewhere in between, and arrived at the Port de la Glere around noon.

View attachment 306112

It sounds like it's an 8-9 hours hike (as a Summer running route) that she planned for one day between Port de la Glere and Refuge de Venasque. As the Keeper of the Refuge de Venasque is quoted as saying, it's a long hike with unpredictable circumstances when the trails are closed during Winter.

Dan said that she hikes faster than estimated times for hikes. So for Dan and Esther, perhaps an 8-9 hour hike is planned as 6 hours. That could mean arriving at the Port de la Glere at noon and expecting to arrive at Refuge de Venasque at 6 PM, just before dusk. Given the technical difficulty of the Port de la Glere during Winter, when trails are closed, I don't think that Esther could hike faster than others.

If she arrived at the Port de la Glere at noon and decided to descend, I think it was all over by 4 PM. I agree that by 4 PM, Esther would have been in the shadows hiking the French side of Port de la Glere.

If she was at the Refuge de Venasque and intended to hike over the Port de la Glere to the trailhead, and if she left at 10 AM, she would have arrived at the dicey steep end of the trail around 4 PM - in the shadow of the mountain, cold, wind gusts, slippery with cloud moisture and dusting of snow.

Either way, in my opinion, she was hooped once she was at that location - if it is her. Again, I'm curious why someone suggested this route to her on Nov 19, days before she embarked on the deadly hike.

IMO she didn't descend to the Refugio de Venasque and then cut over to la Glère. I think she intended the R de V on the way back, just as you suggested ^^^ when we were concluding that EDs description of her trip should be taken in the order she talked about it. I think she felt safe at the Cabane, because she'd been there before, and she would have felt safe going up from there to the Port de la G. It was similar in exertion to the trip out of the valley to the Pic de S.

DC's estimations about ED's hiking speed might have been true in summer conditions on easy Alpine trails. That's not what we have here. Cold, wet, wind, snow squalls, frost, ice, deep shadows, early sunset, solo, no food, no one else.... And then there are the old, mushy, worn-sole hiking shoes.... And just look at the terrain.

 

[Hatty]

It's funny to read that article. It's almost a summary of the links that have been posted here in the last 24 hours.

There's a bit of embellishment in claiming that the skull was found on the trail - which is a bit over the top.

Yes, well it is the Daily Mail!

 

[otto]

This is the only trail that I can see on this map between the Refuge and the Port Glere. I added the dark black line, as that seems like the direct route.

This is the original map - dashed black lines are trails.

Dan's Dossier about Esther's route mentions trails beyond the Refuge de Venasque and towards the trail to the Hospice in France (not mentioned by Esther). Would she hike in the wrong direction so she could briefly access wifi? Why would she walk in the wrong direction for wifi when they both knew they didn't speak daily? Why would he expect that, given that she had spoken with him and her parents less than 24 hours earlier - knowing she was hiking the Pyrenees with limited wifi, that she would wake up looking for wifi so they could talk?

Route that includes walking towards the Hospice in France to access wifi - although not sure that it is a complete route.

Why does Dan mention wifi that is not on the planned route between the Refuge de Venasque and the Port Glere? Why does he interpret Esther words to give a different meaning than what is on the surface (that occam's thing)?

Is it possible that things had gone South, she gave up, she chose a quiet place to curl up - not knowing that predatory animals would find her sooner than partners?

I don't know what to think - accident, suicide?