Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[otto]

Yes, well it is the Daily Mail!

I didn't realize how dependent Daily Mail was on forums until now! No wonder some of their reporting is bizarre. I recall Daily Mail articles connecting a couple from Australia/USA, murdered in Canada, to Highway of Tears in 2019. That media were so far off base it was embarrassing to watch.

 

[otto]

RSBM

But that was exactly her planned route that she discussed with, probably, her father, and Dan. This is the relevant page from the dossier

View attachment 306100

As it discusses, the total route after the Venasque refuge is 16 k, 1100 m elevation. Could be done as a dayhike, but since she had all her gear, she could have chosen to have taken longer.

It's all a high elevation mountain plateau, I don't think she cared whether it was technically in France or not. The mountains were there long before they were artificially divided by borders.

That map is Dan's route. All requests for Esther's route have come up empty - other than the map tools she has on devices. I believe he has created the map based on his opinion of what Esther meant when she said :

“Still in the same area.
Tomorrow heading for Port de le Glere or something spelt like that.
Might dip into France.
Hoping Refuge Venasque has a winter room.
Keep you posted when can xx” (link)
​

True, I'm confident that she did not mind whether she was in France or Spain. However, the lockdown in France meant that the trails in France were deserted due to both Winter closure and Covid. Perhaps she thought that Covid was the only reason for the closures.

 

[RickshawFan]

The “wall” at the Port de la Glère. Imagine coming down that in winter in soggy shoes with worn-out soles.

Cirque de la Glere - Picture of Randonnées au Départ de l'Hospice de France, Bagneres-de-Luchon - Tripadvisor

ED can’t have had a paper map. It would be obvious from the contours that there was a wall. The screen on a mobile phone is too small to get a contextual view of a trail. Plus, you can’t rely on GPS: if it gets overcast, it can’t lock onto the satellites, so it’s useless.

 

[otto]

IMO this tiny detail of asking a fellow hiker if they had extra fruit has been really overblown. It doesn't mean she had no proper food, it just means she had no fresh fruit (which gets hopelessly squashed and messy in an overnight pack.)

A backpacker needs to consume hundreds of calories per day, not an apple and a few chia seeds.

IMO, if she was as stupid as you seem to assume, she wouldn't have survived to age 36, much less spent the whole summer backpacking the Pyranees.

Asking one person for food while ascending a summit one late afternoon, in isolation, might seem overblown, but when combined with testimony that she relied on other for a proper meal days earlier, that she and Dan hitchhiked without food and marvelled at living on the generosity of others, and she was seen quibbling about the price of chia seeds while preparing for her 4 day trip, it looks less "overblown."

I hope that experienced hikers know how to prevent fruit becoming "hopelessly squashed and messy in an overnight pack." Might Esther's backpack been stained by squashed fruit - thereby attracting wild animals?

 

[RickshawFan]

Asking one person for food while ascending a summit one late afternoon, in isolation, might seem overblown, but when combined with testimony that she relied on other for a proper meal days earlier, that she and Dan hitchhiked without food and marvelled at living on the generosity of others, and she was seen quibbling about the price of chia seeds while preparing for her 4 day trip, it looks less "overblown."

I hope that experienced hikers know how to prevent fruit becoming "hopelessly squashed and messy in an overnight pack." Might Esther's backpack been stained by squashed fruit - thereby attracting wild animals?

Fruit is too heavy, and, as you say, gets mushy. Backpackers take dried fruit.
And, yes, it attracts critters. If you leave food in your pack at night, mice will eat holes in the fabric to get at even crumbs. I can’t imagine how ED prevented this, but I guess she didn’t have any food. There are marmots everywhere in those mountains. They even chew out the plastic coating on the wires in your car…

 

[otto]

Snipped for focus.
I can't even imagine someone deciding to do this, on a solo hike, no one around, in November. But then again, there was so much inexperience here, so many risks that weren't gauged....

Agreed, and early comments in this discussion mention her unsettled need to prove something about hiking solo. She was an Oxford scholar and still she felt she had to prove herself in an area where she was not entirely comfortable - go figure.

So much experience, so many instances of ignoring the risk.

 

[otto]

Fruit is too heavy, and, as you say, gets mushy. Backpackers take dried fruit.
And, yes, it attracts critters. If you leave food in your pack at night, mice will eat holes in the fabric to get at even crumbs. I can’t imagine how ED prevented this, but I guess she didn’t have any food. There are marmots everywhere in those mountains. They even chew out the plastic coating on the wires in your car…

While bivouacking, Esther might have hung her backpack in a tree to keep dried food safe from wild animals? If there were no trees, perhaps she put her pack far enough away from her such that finding food in her backpack did not mean that she is food.

 

[Hexe]

IMO this tiny detail of asking a fellow hiker if they had extra fruit has been really overblown. It doesn't mean she had no proper food, it just means she had no fresh fruit (which gets hopelessly squashed and messy in an overnight pack.)

A backpacker needs to consume hundreds of calories per day, not an apple and a few chia seeds.

IMO, if she was as stupid as you seem to assume, she wouldn't have survived to age 36, much less spent the whole summer backpacking the Pyranees.

On one of previous hikes she took a head of lettuce, some bell peppers and, if I remember correctly, chia seeds as her whole food. It was an overnight hike. Esther definitely had some issues with preparing a proper food stash for her hikes.

 

[otto]

On one of previous hikes she took a head of lettuce, some bell peppers and, if I remember correctly, chia seeds as her whole food. It was an overnight hike. Esther definitely had some issues with preparing a proper food stash for her hikes.

Yes, it is apparent that Esther Dinley, the Oxford Scholar, did not properly prepare her food stash for hikes. The obvious question is why was she so stingy with her food? Was the couple financially tight, or had she alone run low on funds?

 

[mrjitty]

Being an Oxford scholar has no bearing on survival in alpine areas - why bring it up?

I have a law degree - that does not help me vs my friend in bushcraft. Of course it helps to be a good learner, and gather experience, but much of this stuff comes down to risk assessment that even experienced people can be bad at.

In NZ many accidents come down to the same old things. Lack of kit, food, fuel, shelter. Underestimating changing conditions. You get lost, have a fall, get caught in in a storm etc. Things can go wrong very quickly, if you can't get under cover.

There is an infamous example where a squad of soldiers on alpine style training got caught in a snowstorm and came to grief.

Meanwhile an asian tourist on his own, dug a snow cave and waited out the storm with no problems.

 

[Konstantin]

Yes, it is apparent that Esther Dinley, the Oxford Scholar, did not properly prepare her food stash for hikes. The obvious question is why was she so stingy with her food? Was the couple financially tight, or had she alone run low on funds?

i think from some of her social media posts Esther had some issues around food and money was probably also tight. Self publishing niche books doesn’t translate into an income (and I know it was after the fact but a BBC magazine article isn’t that likely to precipitate huge sales either.)

we know Esther seemed to have not brought enough food on her hikes as we have testimonies from people she bumped into who were surprised at her taking so little and/or asking for food.

Esther was an experienced hiker but she also made some mistakes — like humans do. Not taking enough food, travelling alone in winter, “hoping” there’s a winter room when the alternative is potentially freezing to death, not carrying a paper map. In summer with better weather and other hikers on the trail it probably would be an unremarkable hike but it wasn’t summer.

Walking in the high mountains in winter alone on deserted trails is a huge risk even if you are very experienced and even if you are properly dressed and carrying enough supplies.

 

[otto]

Being an Oxford scholar has no bearing on survival in alpine areas - why bring it up?

I have a law degree - that does not help me vs my friend in bushcraft. Of course it helps to be a good learner, and gather experience, but much of this stuff comes down to risk assessment that even experienced people can be bad at.

In NZ many accidents come down to the same old things. Lack of kit, food, fuel, shelter. Underestimating changing conditions. You get lost, have a fall, get caught in in a storm etc. Things can go wrong very quickly, if you can't get under cover.

True, but being an Oxford Scholar has an innate position that does not require more proof - such as surviving solo Winter Pyrenees hiking trails with limited supplies.

 

[drama_farmer]

Discussion about vultures, birds and bodies reminded me of Hannah Graham. Her skull and bones were found after a tip from someone who saw buzzards circling a specific area.

Hannah was nothing but skull, bones, no hair, no skin. The birds took Hannah's hair.

Because the skull in question was found with hair (perhaps belonging to Esther), I'm inclined to think that there were no birds or natural re-location due to snow melt.

"A tip from a landscaper led Virginia police to the remains of missing University of Virginia student Hannah Graham. ...

"Heading to work that morning, after I glanced to my left at a house that I knew fairly well, and noticed the roof as well as a tree in the back corner of the property was full of buzzards," says Bobby Pugh."​

Tipster leads police to missing U of VA student's body | cbs19.tv

"The deputy who found the remains said he found a skull, scattered bones, no hair and no flesh.

Arden said it is highly unusual for a body to become a skeleton in this climate and time frame."
​

Police search for clues where remains found

An important clarification about carrion birds, specifically vultures:

Vultures "circling" will occur anywhere in their habitat where thermal updrafts provide lift. That's how they travel. Notice how most vulture species rarely "flap" their wings. They are genius at gliding and using warm air to gain altitude.
A much better indicator of carrion present on the ground are vultures ON or NEAR the ground.

That is my experience from 20+ years of bird and wildlife observation and photography.

 

[Steve13]

I think it's important to remember that the messages in the dossier are only a subset of the communications that occurred between DC and ED and other family members.

"Selected messages received from Esther are quoted below to indicate the times she set out, the times she subsequently reached Pic de Sauvegarde on both days and her happiness at the time.The full transcripts and screenshots of all communication have been provided to the police in both France and Spain."​

Yes. That's exactly what catches the eye. Why release 'selected messages' if they only amplify questions about critical details how it was known that ED was due back on 25th? There's a lacuna or two there. This is not to criticise anyone in particular, but it does seem odd to edit messages in a way which leaves out crux details.

 

[touch]

Esther was an experienced hiker but she also made some mistakes — like humans do. [...]“hoping” there’s a winter room when the alternative is potentially freezing to death

She was prepared for sleeping on the hill. Probably hoping to get into the refuge because it would be a nicer place to be than a tent. There's space to stand up whilst getting changed, shelter for cooking, possibly a fireplace and best of all you don't need to pack up and carry a wet tent in the morning. It would be a nice bonus if there was an open winter room, and not a life-or-death disaster if there wasn't.

not carrying a paper map.

What makes you say that? The dossier says she was carrying a paper map and I've not seen anything else which suggests otherwise?

 

[Grouse]

Yes. That's exactly what catches the eye. Why release 'selected messages' if they only amplify questions about critical details how it was known that ED was due back on 25th? There's a lacuna or two there. This is not to criticise anyone in particular, but it does seem odd to edit messages in a way which leaves out crux details.

Well that wasn't really the point I was trying to make Steve. I personally think it's right and proper that only a selection was released, it would be too intrusive and unreasonable to expect more IMO. As to whether that selection biases the story, we can't know that without seeing the rest.

I will admit now though that the apparent vagueness on the planned route is looking more of an issue to me. "Might dip into France" - there should have been no "might" about it if she was following planned routes that she had informed DC about in the event of any mishaps. Some of the recent theories up thread - that ED may have actually decided to round the other way - are starting to look more plausible to me now in explaining the silence the next day and the lack of signs of a visit the at Refuge de Venasque.

But for all we know DC may have submitted more information to LE (eg. messages maybe including copies of her maps/routes), that does back up the anti-clockwise route with R de V as the overnight destination on 22nd.

 

[Owlpellet]

She was prepared for sleeping on the hill. Probably hoping to get into the refuge because it would be a nicer place to be than a tent. There's space to stand up whilst getting changed, shelter for cooking, possibly a fireplace and best of all you don't need to pack up and carry a wet tent in the morning. It would be a nice bonus if there was an open winter room, and not a life-or-death disaster if there wasn't.



What makes you say that? The dossier says she was carrying a paper map and I've not seen anything else which suggests otherwise?

She had also downloaded all the maps onto her phone. I think she was much more capable, experienced and responsible than people are giving her credit for. She had done at least one (summer) version of the UK Mountain Leadership training and had a lot of days on the hill. She had very good equipment and looking at a photo of her oatmeal, chia, raison and cinnamon porridge, I reckon she had a good supply of food with her, just not the kind of food that would impress someone carrying tuna and baked potatoes She would also have been unlikely to have been willing to share special vegan diet stuff that was hard to come by, and would have kept quiet about that. And if I was being charged more than the marked price for chia seeds, I’d ask about it at the till too. Wouldn’t most people?

She was someone who did a lot of personal emotional, psychological and spiritual work and communicated that. To me that’s the sign of someone very resilient and emotionally intelligent. Not someone about to put everyone who loves her through hell.

I’m sorry someone encouraged her up the Port de la Glère, it may have been just too dangerous at that time of year without winter climbing gear. But 35 years ago, in late December, I also went solo walking up to the tops of the Spanish Pyrenees with an ice axe I’d never actually used and mere “heel studs’. (The snow was too wet for crampons) I managed to cross an unexpected frozen stream that would have sent a wiser woman back down.

She had wanted boots, not shoes. She had done her research and identified the ones she wanted, but she could only find them in the shoe version (many of which come in “high top” versions, so they are a compromise between a shoe and a boot.) Availability of woman’s boots is much less that of men’s so I can quite see her dilemma. I had to find and settle for Italian-made men’s ones, which were narrower than most.

She may not have slipped. She may have ruptured a tendon, had a stress fracture, an aneurysm, appendicitis, a severe migraine. A small thing can have big consequences when you are on your own. Mobile reception is not static, it can vary according to the weather and time of day. Her death was a tragedy and I hope she died peacefully in the end. She was doing something she loved. I hope Dan and her relatives find peace in finding her at least.

 

[RickshawFan]

Agreed, and early comments in this discussion mention her unsettled need to prove something about hiking solo. She was an Oxford scholar and still she felt she had to prove herself in an area where she was not entirely comfortable - go figure.

So much experience, so many instances of ignoring the risk.

She was very inexperienced. DC too. They both equated “experience” with athleticism, being able to do the walking. Experience in the mountains is about risk calculation. It’s about understanding you can’t expect others to come to your rescue (they often ask for things). It’s about respecting nature and fully taking in that it’s not about you. It’s about understanding key concepts, e.g. that November isn’t July. It’s about letting SAR take the lead when something goes wrong. It’s exactly not “going beyond your comfort zone” as though the whole enterprise is about ignoring danger rather than assessing risk by paying attention to what you fear. IMO
I’ll never forget the group of students and their teachers who died in a blizzard on Mount Hood in about 1983. I knew about it as it was unfolding. Almost the same mistakes in attitude about nature, and their certainty in thinking they were “experienced”. And the trip was all about “going beyond your comfort zone”.

 

[ZaZara]

Disparition d'Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées : l'enquête relancée après la découverte d'ossements humains

On Thursday 22 July, the case took a new turn with the discovery, by a couple of Spanish hikers, of human remains in the Benasque sector on the Spanish side. This information was reported by the Spanish radio station Huesca and confirmed to Le Figaro on Tuesday by the Gendarmerie Group of Occitania. Among the bones discovered, a skull, which is undoubtedly a human skull. "After a thorough sweep of the area, other bones were discovered (*). However, no clothing or belongings were found in the area," according to Xavier Wargnier, Colonel of the Gendarmerie.

If, at this stage, the body has not been formally identified, several elements suggest that it could be that of Esther Dingley. The area, first of all, which corresponds to the route that the young woman would have taken at the time of her disappearance, in the immediate vicinity of the Port de la Gléré. It should also be noted that "no other disappearances in the area have been reported on the French and Spanish sides," according to Colonel Wargnier. According to several sources close to the investigation in Spain, "the skull could correspond to that of Esther Dingley by the colour and length of the hair," the Spanish radio also reported.

On the French side, there is a cautionary note. "The bones may have been moved recently by animals," Colonel Wargnier said, careful not to jump to conclusions. DNA and morphological analyses to check whether the bones found are those of the missing hiker are underway. As part of this, French investigators have asked Esther Dingley's family to provide them with a dental X-ray of the young woman as well as a DNA sample.


BBM




* About the find of the other bones:


Disparition de la randonneuse britannique Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées : un crâne humain découvert

Further searches were undertaken between the Pic de Sacroux and Pic de Sauvegarde areas, near the Venasque refuge, on both sides of the Pyrenees. Two bones were found, but in different places, and there is no confirmation that these are human bones.


BBM

 

[searancke]

I think she was much more capable, experienced and responsible than people are giving her credit for.

Except one thing you must always do is tell people where you are going, what you are going and when you are (exactly) expected back. Because it only takes a slip or a trip and suddenly you need rescuing.... It's utterly irresponsible to go hiking in the winter, at altitude with no companion and/or method of summoning aid, on trails which are essentially closed....Although this does point to a level of recklessness which, as others have suggested, may indicate her state of mind. She may not have been suicidal, but there would appear to be a lack of care for her own wellbeing.