Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #5

[10ofRods]

@RickshawFan Thank you so much for all the trail maps and pictures. So much easier to understand.

Thanks to all of you who have been helping us understand what happened to Esther. I am going with "wilderness misadventure," at this point. There are a lot of sobering details that all of us who hike will remember for a long time.

I feel so badly for her, and for D. as well (and all their families).

 

[Grouse]

You don't think it's relevant that there may be many other messages which contradict this narrative? You don't wonder why there's no evidence whatever of ED's impending return on 25th when ED may have lain dying overnight because of it?

Not really concerned about it no. Dan has supplied everything to LE.

 

[Herat]

No, she wasn't an irresponsoble idiot.

But she made mistakes for November. The food & equipment she took may have been fine for the summer, but not the early winter.

We know she was asking other hikers if they had any food they could give her. That alone is an indication of lack of food and also preparedness.

What bothers me about her asking for food is that this would appear to be a deliberate move to lessen the weight of her pack or avoid paying money for your own support. I understand the idea of traveling light, but not skimping on nutritious food for safety. There is an entire industy that makes (quite delicious!) freeze-dried foods, but they are expensive, and probably quite difficult to find. I don't think she would have carried anything like this. As others have mentioned, humans have hiked for centuries and carried meager rations or basic food. Cooked potatoes and can of tuna is a reasonable and simple meal, but they are relatively heavy. My go to is ramen noodles mixed with a can of cooked chicken. Heated up at the end of a long cold day = tasty, savory, satisfying heaven.

She would know that most other hikers do carry redundant food supplies and have been counting on them sharing, with the other party supplying the larger or heavier part of the meal.

I find this behaviour very similar to the couple's history of hitchhiking and relying on the hospitality of strangers, essentially begging for handouts. Part of their ethos of travel. Not very self-sufficent, though.

 

[Satchie]

I believe I can predict with 100% certainty that Esther did not starve to death. How, when and what she - or any other hiker - or non-hiker, choses to eat is, IMO, no ones business. I challenge you, go to any place people are hiking, interrogate the (mostly guys) about their food, and then try delivering your lectures about how a packet of ramen is not nutritious enough etc. etc, see how well that comes off!

 

[Herat]

I believe I can predict with 100% certainty that Esther did not starve to death. How, when and what she - or any other hiker - or non-hiker, choses to eat is, IMO, no ones business. I challenge you, go to any place people are hiking, interrogate the (mostly guys) about their food, and then try delivering your lectures about how a packet of ramen is not nutritious enough etc. etc, see how well that comes off!

If you are referring to my post, I did not imply she starved to death.

I was pointing out that it seems she regularly relied on other people to give their food, just like she and her husband did on their hitchihikng / travel blogs. It doesn't sound like a behaviour primarily for social interaction, but perhaps a way to avoid having to carry more weight or expend more money. There were issues in the relationship, some financial, and it strikes me that she was really pushing this trip beyond her normal boundaries, maybe was having conflicts about what her future life was going to be like, and was trying to just keep going beyond her planned return.

I dunno. This is a strange social situation

 

[Jmoose]

I believe I can predict with 100% certainty that Esther did not starve to death. How, when and what she - or any other hiker - or non-hiker, choses to eat is, IMO, no ones business. I challenge you, go to any place people are hiking, interrogate the (mostly guys) about their food, and then try delivering your lectures about how a packet of ramen is not nutritious enough etc. etc, see how well that comes off!

The fact that the comment might not be well-received, doesn’t change the fact that one might be poorly prepared. I don’t know for sure that ED was not adequately supplied with an appropriate amount of rations, but the comments from others who met her on the trek seem to point that way. I am not sure if we will ever know, but am certain that speculation’s going to persist. Also, I must respectfully disagree that her rations are nobody else’s business-when she asks others for part of what they have carried, it becomes their business, whether they give it to her and deprive themselves, or decline and feel partially responsible for her death.

 

[RickshawFan]

What bothers me about her asking for food is that this would appear to be a deliberate move to lessen the weight of her pack or avoid paying money for your own support. I understand the idea of traveling light, but not skimping on nutritious food for safety. There is an entire industy that makes (quite delicious!) freeze-dried foods, but they are expensive, and probably quite difficult to find. I don't think she would have carried anything like this. As others have mentioned, humans have hiked for centuries and carried meager rations or basic food. Cooked potatoes and can of tuna is a reasonable and simple meal, but they are relatively heavy. My go to is ramen noodles mixed with a can of cooked chicken. Heated up at the end of a long cold day = tasty, savory, satisfying heaven.

She would know that most other hikers do carry redundant food supplies and have been counting on them sharing, with the other party supplying the larger or heavier part of the meal.

I find this behaviour very similar to the couple's history of hitchhiking and relying on the hospitality of strangers, essentially begging for handouts. Part of their ethos of travel. Not very self-sufficent, though.

Oh, a ramen noodles gal! I'm a freezer-bag cooking gal myself. Yep, you just take regular grocery store food (like instant rice, Angel hair, polenta, flaked black beans, dried tomatoes, dried mashed potatoes, turkey gravy, cranberries, spices) and make actual real recipes. All you do is pour boiling water into the freezer bag at camp. CHEAP.
Herat's and my versions are both great examples of how you eat very light weight with plenty of calories and variety, and not much money. There was NOTHING to prevent a backpacker in the Pyrenees from doing the same.
This is what experience looks like.

 

[Tanzanite]

Im throwing this out here because I have felt it from the beginning...I think there is a possibility Esther has an eating disorder...IMHO FWIW. (Based on appearance alone...)

Imoo, I think she looks fit and healthy, strong and slim. An eating disorder is a complex mental health condition and I find that it is pretty hard to spot visually.

She may well have disordered eating - many people who are very focused on active, fitness-based lifestyles and who discuss food and nutrition a lot can lean towards this - but I wouldn't like to guess at something like that.

And I'm not really sure what it brings to the picture now, tbh, but that moo, obv!

 

[Steve13]

I believe I can predict with 100% certainty that Esther did not starve to death. How, when and what she - or any other hiker - or non-hiker, choses to eat is, IMO, no ones business. I challenge you, go to any place people are hiking, interrogate the (mostly guys) about their food, and then try delivering your lectures about how a packet of ramen is not nutritious enough etc. etc, see how well that comes off!

I don't think anyone's saying ED starved to death, God help the poor woman. No-one's going to starve to death in a couple of days. They're questioning the 'official' narrative about ED, her skills and state of mind. No?

 

[Tanzanite]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I think her clothing (mainly her footwear), experience, equipment and nutrition and so on play a part in the discussion of what has happened to ED, and all of those things are important. I'm enormously grateful for the wisdom of the posters here with much more experience than me in hiking/mountain terrains - your posts are so rich in useful detail, thank you.

<modsnip>

 

[fridaybaker]

I believe I can predict with 100% certainty that Esther did not starve to death. How, when and what she - or any other hiker - or non-hiker, choses to eat is, IMO, no ones business. I challenge you, go to any place people are hiking, interrogate the (mostly guys) about their food, and then try delivering your lectures about how a packet of ramen is not nutritious enough etc. etc, see how well that comes off!

Rations become other people's business when there are people risking their lives to rescue/recover someone. All that person's preparedness, in a way, becomes up for discussion, which of course, it regularly does, no matter who the person in question is.

It doesn't mean people aren't incredibly sorry for Esther, her partner and her family, but these questions are inherent in any meaningful discussion of her disappearance, and good fodder for possibly thwarting future problems for others.

 

[searancke]

But didn’t she do that from the top of Pic de Sauvegard? She phoned Dan then her parents to discuss her route and preparations we were told. I think that was the first place she had mobile phone coverage. We don’t have all the details of that, just some excerpts from texts with Dan. It seems to me she was doing the circular route anti-clockwise as Dan said, (and recommended by the person she met) with a little bit of leeway for changes depending on conditions. (Which is always the case). If she had deviated from the route communicated I think she would have endeavoured to let them know as soon as she had mobile reception again. I think all this uncertainty about her route is just spiralling speculation on our part, encouraged by SAR not being able to find her in initial searches and believing that she never reached that refuge on the French side an hour or so’s walk away and total confusion in the tabloids confusing the border with a path westwards along an imaginary ridge.

The messages as they appear in the dossier could indicate many routes - either clockwise or anticlockwise (and arguably as they stand they would seem to indicate the opposite of what DC thought). In addition, lack of check in points meant they didn't start searching for her for several days.

<modsnip: Please do not state opinion as fact.>

 

[fridaybaker]

Much of the "scrutiny and judgement", surrounding Esther's disappearance has to do with her vast number of public posts about her own sense of well-being. There are many, many comments by Esther herself that lead one in that direction. Esther and Dan poured out their hearts and souls very publicly about their relationship and their inner, individual, struggles.

Almost every poster here, it seems, has several scenarios, which vary according to the current discussion going on, a new idea on itinerary, various maps, articles, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Hexe]

I believe I can predict with 100% certainty that Esther did not starve to death. How, when and what she - or any other hiker - or non-hiker, choses to eat is, IMO, no ones business.

An underfeed person tires more easily and has more problems with staying warm (you need these nutrients to keep your core temperature up, it is a fuel for your body). And being cold, hungry and exhausted while on the trail fuzzies your mind and makes easier to make that one bad decision, one stupid mistake or one wrong step leading to tragedy. So, when a hiker goes missing it is important what they ate, because it might have been one of the circumstances diminishing (or increasing) their chance to survival. I do not want blame Esther for her demise, it is important though to see all the circumstances that might lead to an unfortunate accident.

 

[Satchie]

Rations become other people's business when there are people risking their lives to rescue/recover someone. All that person's preparedness, in a way, becomes up for discussion, which of course, it regularly does, no matter who the person in question is.

It doesn't mean people aren't incredibly sorry for Esther, her partner and her family, but these questions are inherent in any meaningful discussion of her disappearance, and good fodder for possibly thwarting future problems for others.

I disagree. People don't criticize victims of murder because of the enormous expense of the subsequent police investigation and trials. Some of those people were out walking alone after dark, unprepared for being kidnapped by a murderer, some went back home after telling their partner they were planning to divorce them, some were even breaking Covid rules!

ETA, every SAR group I know of depends on volunteers, who choose to dedicate themselves to wilderness search and rescue because they know, it could be them in trouble out there. No one is perfectly safe on a wilderness adventure, lots of things can go wrong in Human vs Nature. IMO that's a big part of the appeal of going out there, rather than staying home.

 

[fridaybaker]

I disagree. People don't criticize victims of murder because of the enormous expense of the subsequent police investigation and trials. Some of those people were out walking alone after dark, unprepared for being kidnapped by a murderer, some went back home after telling their partner they were planning to divorce them, some were even breaking Covid rules!

ETA, every SAR group I know of depends on volunteers, who choose to dedicate themselves to wilderness search and rescue because they know, it could be them in trouble out there. No one is perfectly safe on a wilderness adventure, lots of things can go wrong in Human vs Nature. IMO that's a big part of the appeal of going out there, rather than staying home.

Murder and a hiking accident are different things, and whether the SAR are paid or volunteers doesn't matter. A person's preparedness always becomes part of the discussion -I've read enough accounts of hiking and climbing incidents to know. That discussion is always there if there's any chance that the person was unprepared. Esther certainly hasn't been targeted in that sense.

In fact, some of the best hikers, climbers, mountaineers in the world discuss exactly that, and publicly, in the event of a mountain/trail accident, even if it's a friend or associate. It's very common. For a reason.

 

[otto]

I really quite genuinely don't understand what you mean. With massive respect, because you joined this site before me, it's not obvious at all; there's only one source for that and that source is inconsistent and at times apparently unbelievable. That's not a criticism of anyone; it's simply that a basic rule of sleuthing is that you can never base your opinions on just one source. Not accepting one source is what all the discussions are about on this website; that's what makes it so great. Are you saying that if we question what's in the dossier then you think we're at risk of being put off Websleuths?

Regarding the text messages that Esther's partner shared publicly, I suspect that the content that he did not include is of a personal nature - unrelated to her route. I don't think he withheld anything relevant to her planned hike.

 

[fridaybaker]

Regarding the text messages that Esther's partner shared publicly, I suspect that the content that he did not include is of a personal nature - unrelated to her route. I don't think he withheld anything relevant to her planned hike.

Agree, Otto. I think most people would do the same.

 

[otto]

Rations become other people's business when there are people risking their lives to rescue/recover someone. All that person's preparedness, in a way, becomes up for discussion, which of course, it regularly does, no matter who the person in question is.

It doesn't mean people aren't incredibly sorry for Esther, her partner and her family, but these questions are inherent in any meaningful discussion of her disappearance, and good fodder for possibly thwarting future problems for others.

I think there are enough stories on Esther's blog, and from people she met prior to her disappearance, for there to be valid questions about whether she was properly prepared for her hike. The fact that she vanished supports the point that she was not prepared for every situation she encountered.

 

[otto]

Disparition d'Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées : l'enquête relancée après la découverte d'ossements humains

On Thursday 22 July, the case took a new turn with the discovery, by a couple of Spanish hikers, of human remains in the Benasque sector on the Spanish side. This information was reported by the Spanish radio station Huesca and confirmed to Le Figaro on Tuesday by the Gendarmerie Group of Occitania. Among the bones discovered, a skull, which is undoubtedly a human skull. "After a thorough sweep of the area, other bones were discovered (*). However, no clothing or belongings were found in the area," according to Xavier Wargnier, Colonel of the Gendarmerie.

If, at this stage, the body has not been formally identified, several elements suggest that it could be that of Esther Dingley. The area, first of all, which corresponds to the route that the young woman would have taken at the time of her disappearance, in the immediate vicinity of the Port de la Gléré. It should also be noted that "no other disappearances in the area have been reported on the French and Spanish sides," according to Colonel Wargnier. According to several sources close to the investigation in Spain, "the skull could correspond to that of Esther Dingley by the colour and length of the hair," the Spanish radio also reported.

On the French side, there is a cautionary note. "The bones may have been moved recently by animals," Colonel Wargnier said, careful not to jump to conclusions. DNA and morphological analyses to check whether the bones found are those of the missing hiker are underway. As part of this, French investigators have asked Esther Dingley's family to provide them with a dental X-ray of the young woman as well as a DNA sample.


BBM




* About the find of the other bones:


Disparition de la randonneuse britannique Esther Dingley dans les Pyrénées : un crâne humain découvert

Further searches were undertaken between the Pic de Sacroux and Pic de Sauvegarde areas, near the Venasque refuge, on both sides of the Pyrenees. Two bones were found, but in different places, and there is no confirmation that these are human bones.


BBM

Very interesting that no clothing or belongings were found in the area. I'm trying to understand what that means. Were parts of her body carried to that location by vultures? Why wouldn't some clothing be with her bones? There must be another location where there are more bones and her equipment.