Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[Steve13]

That's a reading error on your part, not a transposing error on their part.
The recent media release relating to ED ends at the word "ENDS". It's then followed by another recent media release relating to another missing person. (Which also finishes at the word "ENDS" and there are more related to ED further down the page)

Sorry,

That's a reading error on your part, not a transposing error on their part.
The recent media release relating to ED ends at the word "ENDS". It's then followed by another recent media release relating to another missing person. (Which also finishes at the word "ENDS" and there are more related to ED further down the page)

It really isn't a reading error, Touch. I invite other readers here to make up their own minds. The page is headed in large block capitals and is several thousand words long. A single undated paragraph (unlike the para immediately below it) which deals with a completely separate case has appeared there in the middle of material which was already present in that form before the new paragraph appeared. The LBT website has, rather obviously, other places where other 'missing persons' are dealt with. Moreover, how would you find the new 'release'? It's obviously a terribly amateur presentation. It's up to others to make up their own minds, though and I truly respect whatever people think. I don't want to get caught up in a silly to and fro though, with genuinely great respect to you, Touch.

 

[RickshawFan]

Wow, look at this crazy map. It's like you can experience the mountains for yourself.
Tuca de la Glera

 

[RickshawFan]

The reality is, that was irrelevant anyway to ED as she was still a European resident. They weren’t renting or anything else and DC could have avoided the paperwork if needed by returning home every so often. It’s pretty irrelevant in the case.

@Ruthbullock Can you expand on why the immigration issues might not have been a factor in this case? IMO they were one of the many.

 

[RickshawFan]

RSBM & BBM

Ironically amid the worldwide pandemic, if Esther had been infected with COVID-19, she would have woken up with a sore throat and possibly fever.
If she remained in the Refuge or Cabane, or even in her tent, she would have been found in time. And survived.

IMO, an accident due to a medical emergency remains a possibility, but most likely it wasn't COVID-19.

IMO the days between when ED disappeared and a search was mounted would have been catastrophic with almost any illness, including COVID, in those conditions. It was too cold to be out there, and the tarp tent was for summer—no real weather protection (I tend to think it got blown away, actually, and that's why it can't be found... it's really just a very lightweight piece of fabric, no two layers or anything). Being in the winter room of a Cabane/Refugio is not a good place to hang out when you have a fever. The cold, the mice, the mouldy mattresses, the no-wood fireplace, the no-fuel stove, the nothing to do, the summer sleeping bag, having to fetch water.... The few days before ED was reported missing were just too long to be holed up anywhere that wasn't home in bed or facsimile, like a hotel.

 

[RickshawFan]

Well there was the lady who saw the light in the campervan, and the people who thought ED looked sad in a shop - both stories probably commissioned for cash from members of the public.

I haven't seen that any witnesses mentioned cash changed hands, but maybe LBT has different information that you're privy to? As far as I can tell, those witnesses were just trying to be helpful with LBT's case, and were answering an LE call for sightings.

LE said that was one of their officers in the van. I always thought it was an officer lying on the bed and looking for slips of paper tucked in somewhere or other, and that the bed was the best vantage point, 'cos there's not a whole lot of room to stand up or crouch in an RV that size.

 

[RickshawFan]

Today, I see that their release about Esther includes a paragraph about a completely different case, Nora Quoirin, presumably transposed in error.

Snipped for focus
I see what you mean. I wonder how that happened? Seems odd, but maybe LBT will correct it now that you've pointed it out? I can't imagine they don't follow social media, and will figure out the mistake.

 

[RickshawFan]

I, too, have moonwalked down a scree slope. There's not a snow ball's chance in hell I'd moonwalk down the P de la G. I can't even tell what the scree is like, big pieces, gravel size....

You can also really easily have an accident if you're moonwalking down scree. You can also destroy your legs. I practically had to go to bed for days...

And then there's the matter of the pack....

But moonwalking down scree is not the same as falling down it. There are a lot of mountain accidents descending scree (same with climbers on snow).

I maybe should have mentioned before you try this on the scree slope in your backyards, so you can execute the move with at least some degree of control...To moonwalk on scree, you lean back a bit and kick your feet out into the air, as though you're kicking the horizon. Each step might take you 4-5 feet down the mountain. You need SERIOUS boots, and it's best done when you're in a group and everyone's shrieking. Once you get going, you have to keep going.
This is very different from descending on a scree trail where you're sliding all over the place or when you fall down scree. I've done that, too. Solo, never. The slip-slide-y scree descent, IMO, is what we're talking about here.

 

[touch]

It really isn't a reading error, Touch. I invite other readers here to make up their own minds. The page is headed in large block capitals and is several thousand words long. A single undated paragraph (unlike the para immediately below it) which deals with a completely separate case has appeared there in the middle of material which was already present in that form before the new paragraph appeared. The LBT website has, rather obviously, other places where other 'missing persons' are dealt with. Moreover, how would you find the new 'release'? It's obviously a terribly amateur presentation. It's up to others to make up their own minds, though and I truly respect whatever people think. I don't want to get caught up in a silly to and fro though, with genuinely great respect to you, Touch.

That page is a list of all the recent media releases for all the cases they represent. Accessed through the menu in Help > Media Releases. It's not specific to media releases about Esther, it just happens that most of the recent ones are about her - for obvious reasons. There's also another media release related to another case in the list. That's not a mistake.
Admittedly, the design of that page could be better but that's not a reason to question their competence.

 

[ZaZara]

@Ruthbullock Can you expand on why the immigration issues might not have been a factor in this case? IMO they were one of the many.

The immigration issue was not an issue for Esther and Dan because after struggling with all things BREXIT they decided not to run with the issue and stay in the moment instead. It is all on their blog, first how they let themselves get carried away and then how they came to their senses.

Plus, Esther has a Dutch passport so we will always be able to settle in Europe in the future one way or another. What had been so wrong with “waiting to see” after all?

If anything, this matter was blown out of proportion by the British press who were obsessed with Brexit at that time anyway and everywhere. The rumour that Esther would have committed suicide because she did not want to lose the life she had, originates in the Brexit mania and it is the nastiest frame in her disappearance as far as I'm concerned, even worse than the old maid's tale that she and Dan had broken up. It is hurtful, it is degrading and it is simply not true. A fabrication of the lowest order.

All IMO.

 

[Ruthbullock]

@Ruthbullock Can you expand on why the immigration issues might not have been a factor in this case? IMO they were one of the many.

ED had no issue staying in Europe, due to her Dutch passport, so that is irrelevant. DC may have had some more problems, but actually as travellers throughout Europe and being able to live transiently in their mobile home they could move though borders as needed in order to negate the time periods specified before registering as citizens in one particular country. IMO whilst they may have considered it, it certainly wouldn’t have been an issue- if it was they could have just married to tick a paper box. There were numerous ways around the problem without stress, they didn’t own a home in a particular country; nor did they appear to want to settle in one place.

 

[Steve13]

The immigration issue was not an issue for Esther and Dan because after struggling with all things BREXIT they decided not to run with the issue and stay in the moment instead. It is all on their blog, first how they let themselves get carried away and then how they came to their senses.



If anything, this matter was blown out of proportion by the British press who were obsessed with Brexit at that time anyway and everywhere. The rumour that Esther would have committed suicide because she did not want to lose the life she had, originates in the Brexit mania and it is the nastiest frame in her disappearance as far as I'm concerned, even worse than the old maid's tale that she and Dan had broken up. It is hurtful, it is degrading and it is simply not true. A fabrication of the lowest order.

All IMO.

ZaZara makes a very good point about the UK media's obsession with Brexit around the time of ED's disappearance. It was a national obsession, it seems, but that doesn't change ZZ's point; it's well made. My opinion only, natch.

 

[Grouse]

I haven't seen that any witnesses mentioned cash changed hands, but maybe LBT has different information that you're privy to?

No I'm not privy to that. The articles were on MailOnline and as you probably know they offer cash for videos. I should have added the MOO.

 

[mrjitty]

I, too, have moonwalked down a scree slope. There's not a snow ball's chance in hell I'd moonwalk down the P de la G. I can't even tell what the scree is like, big pieces, gravel size....

You can also really easily have an accident if you're moonwalking down scree. You can also destroy your legs. I practically had to go to bed for days...

And then there's the matter of the pack....

But moonwalking down scree is not the same as falling down it. There are a lot of mountain accidents descending scree (same with climbers on snow).

That is why I was wondering how steep it is and how far you can realistically fall on it. It didn't look too bad in the photos

 

[Herat]

That is why I was wondering how steep it is and how far you can realistically fall on it. It didn't look too bad in the photos

I think it looks very steep and full of shale. It looks like by far the steepest and least stable of the routes she had mentioned.

 

[miekei]

That is not my understanding ---> . Moving to France After Brexit | French-Property.com

"UK nationals living in France at the end of the transition period need to obtain a residence permit, but in the vast majority of cases it will be a formality. "

"Those who have lived in France for at least 5 years are entitled to a residence permit of 10 years validity stating: 'Séjour permanent - Article 50 TUE/Article 18(1) Accord de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l'UE'."

"Those who have lived in France less than 5 years are entitled to a residence permit of 5 years validity, stating 'Article 50 TUE/Article 18(1) Accord de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l'UE'."​

BBM

As an EU citizen ED would be entitled to reside in France. DC would have residency by way of marriage, or a PACS (civil union) agreement.

 

[RickshawFan]

That is why I was wondering how steep it is and how far you can realistically fall on it. It didn't look too bad in the photos

The Port de la Glère slope is something like 70 degrees. If you got going on it, IMO, there's no helping you. And "getting going" might mean somersaulting. However, there might have been a mix of rock slabs as well on the same slope (I posted a photo ^^^^ with a flower in a rock pile). This might be a good thing if it stopped a free fall, but a very bad thing if it stopped a free fall and you were going head first.
To me, the route down looked all like scree. I don't know how big the scree particles.

 

[RickshawFan]

There's been much made of this yellow "tent" and why it hasn't been found. IMO it simply blew away. It's a very basic summer tarptent (not a tent), 1 layer of ultralight fabric, no fly. The fabric is like the stuff they use for hot-air balloons, plus some ultralight mesh. Tarptents are really not designed for wind (you'd put it up in the woods or in a very sheltered place) or much in the way of bad weather at all.
IMO the yellow "tent" would have taken off, even if it had been pitched. It's probably out to sea somewhere, snagged on a tree 300 miles away, festooned on the Maladeta glacier. Whatever. It took off.
IMO this is why it is AWOL.

 

[otto]

The first paragraph is a quote from Dan and Esther's mom. It sounds like they still consider criminal event as a possibility.

"At this stage, with just a single bone found and no sign of equipment or clothing in the immediate area (which has been closely searched again over several days), the details of what happened and where still remain unknown."

They said rescue teams would continue their search on foot and using drones in a bid to find her equipment "to understand how this tragedy occurred".
​

Esther Dingley: Remains confirmed as those of missing hiker

 

[RickshawFan]

The first paragraph is a quote from Dan and Esther's mom. It sounds like they still consider criminal event as a possibility.

"At this stage, with just a single bone found and no sign of equipment or clothing in the immediate area (which has been closely searched again over several days), the details of what happened and where still remain unknown."

They said rescue teams would continue their search on foot and using drones in a bid to find her equipment "to understand how this tragedy occurred".
​

Esther Dingley: Remains confirmed as those of missing hiker

That's the way I took it, too. They're not satisfied that accident or suicide are the only possibilities. I would guess they can't fathom suicide, and DC has already said he can't fathom accident.

 

[RickshawFan]

Upthread, I misspoke several times and suggested ED aimed for the Refuge de la Glère.
It looks like this:
I could happily go there tomorrow. Unfortunately, the Refuge de la Glère might as well be a thousand miles from the Port de la Glère. It's pretty much as far as you can see.
No worries. Another option has entered the fray. A similarly monikered Cabane du Cirque de la Glère. Gosh how could Cirque go with du? Cute huh?
It really does have everything you need, though.
Refuges, cabanes et abris des Pyrénées - Cabane du Cirque de la Glere