Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[RickshawFan]

Not at all, I'm saying the complete opposite.
I think she knew exactly where she was going but simply wasn't sure how to spell it. Different maps have different spellings for it between the languages so I'm not surprised that she wasn't sure of the spelling.

Yes. There's also a Glière and a Galera, so it's easy to get mixed up.

 

[Grouse]

Yeah sure, but I wasn't talking about Where, so much as I was discussing The Cause of her death. I didn't mention a place, you just read one? And on the Instagram it just says 'Pyrenees' so the although the photo may be of a specific place could have been sent from quite a few places in the mountain range... I said this from when I first started posting...

It may say Pyrenees as the location but on the final Instagram post if you look at the 3rd picture in you can see where "Pic Sauvegard" has been painted on the rocks. When you mentioned the selfie I also assumed you meant the last pictures of ED as released by DC? They almost certainly were on Sauvegarde as well, the features in the background tie in.

But yes we cannot rule out that the cause of death was taking a selfie on the Pic de la Glere, but no images have been released yet. Hopefully some clues will be found on her phone or camera if the SD cards in them have survived the winter conditions.

 

[pineapple23]

Yeah sure, but I wasn't talking about Where, so much as I was discussing The Cause of her death. I didn't mention a place, you just read one?

Tbh it did read like 'where' to me - ie the hypothesis about falling 'shortly after' taking the photo together with the reference to a 'selfie death'. But that's the joy of social media I guess. Someone posts with one thing in mind and it's read completely differently by someone else.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Ok, thanks. That's helpful for on here then, and also proves my point that it's difficult to get the spelling right.
The point I was answering was that ED may have been unsure where she was going because she didn't know how to spell it. I was just pointing out that it's not easy to know the spelling because the French spell it different to the Spanish so it doesn't suggest that she was unsure of the location at all by not knowing the spelling.

It seems like she maybe didn't speak good French? My point was that the 'Glere' featured in a quite a few names in the area and sure, she may have been mixing things up when tired or at altitude...I didn't see the point of translating any names into Spanish as no Spanish names were being discussed (wasn't getting at you) and she was on the French side of the Pyrenees. You refer to the spelling, but I think I was making the same point as you, differently - her lack of familiarity with place names may have led her to the wrong place, but she may have accepted an impromptu challenge which then went terribly wrong in some way.

It may say Pyrenees as the location but on the final Instagram post if you look at the 3rd picture in you can see where "Pic Sauvegard" has been painted on the rocks. When you mentioned the selfie I also assumed you meant the last pictures of ED as released by DC? They almost certainly were on Sauvegarde as well, the features in the background tie in.

But yes we cannot rule out that the cause of death was taking a selfie on the Pic de la Glere, but no images have been released yet. Hopefully some clues will be found on her phone or camera.

I'm not sure anyone understands what I'm saying. You can take a picture and go Somewhere Else and post it there. As can Someone Else. But sure, yeah, I take your point. There's no doubt in my mind she took an impromptu shortcut and it went wrong. Otherwise it's 3-4hour trip in the Pyrenees on no food at 4pm in the afternoon, which would be nuts. Or - potentially, she was low on energy and some sort of high - a mixture of euphoria and depressive feelings - led to an accident on said high shortcut. Then again, it could still be something else.

 

[Grouse]

Also in the most recent French article from CoverMeCagney (with much thanks):

"But it was Dan Colegate who, Monday afternoon, located the body and his girlfriend's belongings, below the Pic de la Gléré, in a "very difficult to access" area, and reported it to gendarmes, who intervened on the spot. However, not all the equipment was found: her famous yellow tent is missing."

I was drawn to someone saying they found it weird that DC scoured everywhere except the slope beneath the Pic itself, according to the map on the BBC. DC has no doubt been through Hell, whatever happened.

Do you have a link to the comment about the tent being missing? I read a similar quote to that somewhere a while ago about "famous yellow tent" but it was in a different context and before she and her stuff was found.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I really don’t think the spelling or misspelling of Glere has any bearing on this. It’s clear where she was heading, it is at the other end of the trail loop that she’d mapped out, and it should have been her last mountain before descending back to the road.

The mystery is whether she took the anti clockwise loop (more an inverted U shape) as planned, or risked crossing the gap in the “U” to get directly to La Glere.

I'm not sure it is entirely clear, and specifically not her. I'm thinking perhaps that was one of the many, many problems with her excursion. I'm suggesting that lack of clarity or possible reckless feeling may have contributed to her accident/whatever happened.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I'm not sure anyone understands what I'm saying. You can take a picture and go Somewhere Else and post it there. As can Someone Else.

The timing of the selfie pic she sent Dan (around 4pm iirc) fits with the time that the descending hikers saw and spoke to her about half an hour earlier.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Do you have a link to the comment about the tent being missing? I read a similar quote to that somewhere a while ago about "famous yellow tent" but it was in a different context and before she and her stuff was found.

It was just the phrase used in the Toulouse article. I just translated it. I did find it weird they called it that..

 

[poirotoupierrot]

The timing of the selfie pic she sent Dan (around 4pm iirc) fits with the time that the descending hikers saw and spoke to her about half an hour earlier.

Still not sure what you're trying to say

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Do you have a link to the comment about the tent being missing? I read a similar quote to that somewhere a while ago about "famous yellow tent" but it was in a different context and before she and her stuff was found.

I’ve been thinking about this. The article, published today, says “Tout le matériel n’a toutefois pas été retrouvé : il manque sa fameusetente jaune” Not all the equipment was found, the famous yellow tent is missing.

Pyrénées. Après son crâne, le reste du corps et le matériel d'Esther Dingley retrouvés | Actu Toulouse

If that’s true (and not a misinterpretation of an older article) what does that mean? Could Esther have attempted the riskier ridge and tried to pitch the tent, it blew away so she found a sheltered spot to sleep and froze to death? Or stumbled in the wind and fell? It’s odd that it’s not with her other belongings.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Still not sure what you're trying to say

Ok. She was at the top of Sauvegarde, where the last known selfie was taken, at the time that she sent it to Dan. She didn’t take it and post it from somewhere else. She didn’t have phone reception after taking that photo.

 

[ZaZara]

I’ve been thinking about this. The article, published today, says “Tout le matériel n’a toutefois pas été retrouvé : il manque sa fameusetente jaune” Not all the equipment was found, the famous yellow tent is missing.

Pyrénées. Après son crâne, le reste du corps et le matériel d'Esther Dingley retrouvés | Actu Toulouse

If that’s true (and not a misinterpretation of an older article) what does that mean? Could Esther have attempted the riskier ridge and tried to pitch the tent, it blew away so she found a sheltered spot to sleep and froze to death? Or stumbled in the wind and fell? It’s odd that it’s not with her other belongings.

It is a later addition, wasn't in the report when I first translated it. I wonder how they know.

 

[Federico_A]

If she fell off a precipice on either side of Port de la Glere she was clearly off the path - what I called the 'reckless ridge route' theory. I didn't think it most likely, but god knows I've done some reckless clambering about on precipices in the past myself (usually trying to photograph flowers). I guess in Esther's case she would likely have been in the process of taking a selfie.
Suicide is still a possibility if the body and pack were found tucked away in an accessible crevice. Leaping with her pack on seems less plausible. Waiting to hear exactly where the body was found.
My apologies to DC if I ever doubted him, but I trust he'd understand that nothing should be ruled out of the sleuthing process.

 

[fridaybaker]

The trail, with photos, from the Cabane de Besurtas to the summit of Tuca de La Glera. Be warned it's in Spanish, though the Spanish is not difficult. It gives an idea of the terrain while on foot.

Montesymasdebucuesa: 42-14. PICO DE LA GLERA POR LA ARISTA SUDOESTE. 6-6-14.

Thank you Rickshaw. SO easy to have an accident here -twisted ankle, fall with concussion, injured leg, etc.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

DBM -@CoverMeCagney already posted similar.

It was when they found the skull - unless before. Not sure why you'd be worried about that? Probs info from DC?

Pyrénées. Le crâne retrouvé est bien celui d'Esther Dingley, l'Anglaise portée disparue depuis huit mois | Actu Toulouse

"Aucune autre partie du corps, ni aucune affaire appartenant à la victime, n’ont été retrouvées. Pas de sac, pas de vêtements. Pas plus que sa fameuse tente de couleur jaune vif…"

 

[fridaybaker]

I'm inclined to believe that the "famous yellow tent" went the way Rickshaw has mentioned it likely did: It blew away. Large piece of lightweight fabric, catches the wind and.....

 

[SleutherRuth]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I’m slightly confused by Dan’s original assessment that had Esther slipped and had an accident, they would have quickly been able to find her due to the terrain:

“nor are there many places where she could have fallen and been difficult to find. Needless to say those areas have already been searched closely.”
(Facebook post from 2nd Feb).

If this was the case, and Dan had personally been to these areas by this point to make this assessment, then I don’t understand how she indeed was there all along? Would this not have been one of the areas he mentions that had been searched thoroughly? After all she was ultimately found very close to her original route. Apologies if I’m misunderstanding the nature of the terrain.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

It was when they found the skull - unless before. Not sure why you'd be worried about that? Probs info from DC?

Pyrénées. Le crâne retrouvé est bien celui d'Esther Dingley, l'Anglaise portée disparue depuis huit mois | Actu Toulouse

"Aucune autre partie du corps, ni aucune affaire appartenant à la victime, n’ont été retrouvées. Pas de sac, pas de vêtements. Pas plus que sa fameuse tente de couleur jaune vif…"

So that suggests the tent IS still missing, based on today’s article which says her belongings were found, except the yellow tent.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

It was when they found the skull - unless before. Not sure why you'd be worried about that? Probs info from DC?

Pyrénées. Le crâne retrouvé est bien celui d'Esther Dingley, l'Anglaise portée disparue depuis huit mois | Actu Toulouse

"Aucune autre partie du corps, ni aucune affaire appartenant à la victime, n’ont été retrouvées. Pas de sac, pas de vêtements. Pas plus que sa fameuse tente de couleur jaune vif…"

I should say I Think "Pas plus que" translates here not as "nothing more than", but rather "not even" - otherwise they'd already have the tent and be lying about not having it now!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry if this has been covered, but I’m slightly confused by Dan’s original assessment that had Esther slipped and had an accident, they would have quickly been able to find her due to the terrain:

“nor are there many places where she could have fallen and been difficult to find. Needless to say those areas have already been searched closely.”
(Facebook post from 2nd Feb).

If this was the case, and Dan had personally been to these areas by this point to make this assessment, then I don’t understand how she indeed was there all along? Would this not have been one of the areas he mentions that had been searched thoroughly? After all she was ultimately found very close to her original route. Apologies if I’m misunderstanding the nature of the terrain.

I reckon this specific area was not searched as thoroughly before the skull was found there. Seems Esther might have been off the trail and the area she was found is not a typical route, it’s also difficult terrain which would be hard to search solely on foot. For all we know these remains could have been spotted using binoculars or a drone and not by simply strolling past.