Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[mrjitty]

I guess if she has ended up somewhere that’s it’s impossible to get to on purpose, it means she can only have fallen there from above. So if she was found on a ledge below a cliff, and couldn’t have climbed onto it herself, she can only have dropped there from above. This might be why the police seem certain it was an accident.

I’m also wondering now, whether Dan found her remains by sight (binoculars/drone?) rather than actually being able to physically reach her.

Not sure I’ve explained that very well, hope it makes sense!

Sounds like he spotted her.

Since the skull part was found that will have narrowed down the search zone significantly. Especially it will have made sense to look up hill from the find, whereas I suppose before, they will have focussed downhill from the trail

 

[mrjitty]

Exactly. The skull is heavy and that might be what made it move.

Only a piece of it was found based on prior reporting - so it seems animals were involved.

 

[RickshawFan]

Hopefully they will establish cause of death. Not the same physical environment I know, but in the case of Geraldine Largay, whose body wasn't found for about two years, they managed to establish cause of death as lack of food and water combined with exposure, via DNA analysis. --> Medical Examiner: Geraldine Largay Died from Lack of Food, Water

Largay left copious notes, detailed her condition (i.e. she had no food), and she was alive for weeks, so IMO we’re dealing with a whole different situation here.
We may have a situation like deliberate hypothermia. See this comparator: A Natural Death
There might also be a note somewhere.

 

[Grouse]

Largay left copious notes, detailed her condition (i.e. she had no food), and she was alive for weeks, so IMO we’re dealing with a whole different situation here.
We may have a situation like deliberate hypothermia. See this comparator: A Natural Death
There might also be a note somewhere.

Yes I know about the (tragic) journal, and am aware of differences in the situations, but that mainepublic.org article states that cause of death was established via DNA after her body lay for two years, my point was merely that potentially the same techniques might be used for Esther.

 

[Grouse]

I guess if she has ended up somewhere that’s it’s impossible to get to on purpose, it means she can only have fallen there from above. So if she was found on a ledge below a cliff, and couldn’t have climbed onto it herself, she can only have dropped there from above. This might be why the police seem certain it was an accident.

RSBM - it is starting to look that way, suicide definitely looks less likely now IMO. I think if she'd been taking photos her walking poles will not have been with her, they would have been left on the peak, but not her pack as she seems to tend to keep it on when taking pics on a peak (whereas I tend to take mine off and need to have a sit down and a rest first).

 

[Hope4More]

I guess if she has ended up somewhere that’s it’s impossible to get to on purpose, it means she can only have fallen there from above. So if she was found on a ledge below a cliff, and couldn’t have climbed onto it herself, she can only have dropped there from above. This might be why the police seem certain it was an accident.

I’m also wondering now, whether Dan found her remains by sight (binoculars/drone?) rather than actually being able to physically reach her.

Not sure I’ve explained that very well, hope it makes sense!

Makes perfect sense.

 

[Owlpellet]

I guess if she has ended up somewhere that’s it’s impossible to get to on purpose, it means she can only have fallen there from above. So if she was found on a ledge below a cliff, and couldn’t have climbed onto it herself, she can only have dropped there from above. This might be why the police seem certain it was an accident.

I’m also wondering now, whether Dan found her remains by sight (binoculars/drone?) rather than actually being able to physically reach her.

Not sure I’ve explained that very well, hope it makes sense!

It does. I originally imagined him coming across the body as he walked, but then I read that he had “spotted” or “sighted” her and that she was in an inaccessible area and he reported what he had seen. I can’t find the article I read it in now and the newspapers seem to have updated their articles from the original “just found” moment (rather than writing new ones). But it suggested to me that he had been looking through binoculars or something. It makes sense that he would go to the location where the portion of skull was found and scan the area, trying to work out where it could have come from.

 

[Grouse]

Still talking about the tent being missing in the Daily Mail , and also this - "There was no immediate information as to how police managed to miss the human remains for so long, but the source said it was in a ‘natural hideway’, such as a gully or cave."

 

[Owlpellet]

I really don’t think there is any indication whatsoever that this is suicide. It wasn’t a comfortable location to sit and wait for the cold to take you and jumping was too uncertain and violent a death. Women tend to drown or go off into woods somewhere. (A glacier might have been believable.)

She died in the area she said she was going to. On or at the bottom of a dangerous scree slope, by the sounds of it. An accident is by far the most likely event.

 

[ZaZara]

Still talking about the tent being missing in the Daily Mail , and also this - "There was no immediate information as to how police managed to miss the human remains for so long, but the source said it was in a ‘natural hideway’, such as a gully or cave."

IMO the best report on the tent etc comes from Chris Brockman, BBC correspondent in Toulouse


https://twitter.com/chrisbockman/status/1425112862683500551

chris bockman @chrisbockman
Judge in charge of investigation into missing hiker Esther Dingley tells me - no confirmation her camping gear has been found yet - all has to be retrieved for dna checks in lab in Toulouse over coming hours - more on @BBCNEandCumbria


BBM


No confirmation does not mean not found.
LE will want official confirmation, also of the remains to make sure that these are Esther's. Not that anyone doubts this could be anyone but Esther, but such are the rules.

 

[Owlpellet]

Still talking about the tent being missing in the Daily Mail , and also this - "There was no immediate information as to how police managed to miss the human remains for so long, but the source said it was in a ‘natural hideway’, such as a gully or cave."

I’m not sure if this is new info though or just an updated article with the old speculation about the body being hidden in a “cavity”.

ETA
Actually, it does look like a new article!

If it was an actual cave then... but I would have thought people who knew the area would have known about a cave. So I suspect it was more of a “gap” of some sort.

 

[Grouse]

IMO the best report on the tent etc comes from Chris Brockman, BBC correspondent in Toulouse


https://twitter.com/chrisbockman/status/1425112862683500551

chris bockman @chrisbockman
Judge in charge of investigation into missing hiker Esther Dingley tells me - no confirmation her camping gear has been found yet - all has to be retrieved for dna checks in lab in Toulouse over coming hours - more on @BBCNEandCumbria


BBM


No confirmation does not mean not found.
LE will want official confirmation, also of the remains to make sure that these are Esther's. Not that anyone doubts this could be anyone but Esther, but such are the rules.

Interesting use of the term "camping gear" (which could also imply sleeping bag and mat, cooking gear etc) - or is it just a different way of saying "tent"?

 

[OEJ-JEO]

http://robertetlespyrenees.kazeo.com/pic-de-sacroux-2676-m-et-pic-de-la-glere-2496-m-a120142244

These two friends came from the Spanish side. Their description of the Pic de la Glere:

They actually came up the very rugged French side, where Esther likely fell. The couloirs are the two steep gullies above the scree slope. Esther's more likely to have come to the summit from the gentler Spanish side, I would guess.

This is the Pic de la Glère from the slopes of the Pic de Sacroux looking towards the Pic de Sauvegarde in the distance. France on the left, Spain on the right:

http://ekladata.com/WWb9HwNw8jBiIpJ8GV5FDG2vOvw.jpg

It's surely technically possible to get up to the ridge to the east of P de la Glere, or even to the top of that small pic, but it would be quite a scramble and the view from the top would hardly be worth it (not much better than from P de la Glere itself and nothing like as good as from Sauvegarde).

The Port is quite enclosed, and the Spanish side is fairly flat initially around the Ibon de Gorgutes lake. The Pic would give a better view of the trail in both directions, and it's quite plausible to me that she would scramble up for a better view of the route she'd just followed.

What a terrible shame.

 

[Hexe]

That, her cheerful appearance in the last photo and other factors, make me think that suicide is an unlikely option - unless spur of the moment or suicide staged as an accident to spare people's feelings.

People who decided to kill themselves often might appear serene, peaceful or even cheerful as in their mind they've just found a perfect solution for all their troubles. So, I'd not exclude a possibility of a suicide, solely on the basis of Esther's appearance.

 

[Federico_A]

I really don’t think there is any indication whatsoever that this is suicide. It wasn’t a comfortable location to sit and wait for the cold to take you and jumping was too uncertain and violent a death. Women tend to drown or go off into woods somewhere. (A glacier might have been believable.)

She died in the area she said she was going to. On or at the bottom of a dangerous scree slope, by the sounds of it. An accident is by far the most likely event.

I tend to agree, but circumstances alter cases, and bearing in mind the possibility of relationship problems, and of stress from the publicity as a result of the BBC feature (the timing of which was remarkable), it's always been an option.

You're right though that concealing oneself on a mountain top would require a certain kind of theatrical or deviant imagination as well as a ferocity of resolve that I should think not many people are capable of.

On the whole, I think an accident is more likely. They will surely find her phone and I suspect it will reveal all.

 

[Owlpellet]

The Port is quite enclosed, and the Spanish side is fairly flat initially around the Ibon de Gorgutes lake. The Pic would give a better view of the trail in both directions, and it's quite plausible to me that she would scramble up for a better view of the route she'd just followed.

I’d have been tempted to pitch my tent there for the night and maybe take in the two tops without much gear. But Pic de la Glère looks daunting... Pure speculation... but the only scenario in which I could have imagined myself venturing up there, unroped, would be to retrieve an escaped flysheet....

 

[everybodhi]

snipped
I’m also wondering now, whether Dan found her remains by sight (binoculars/drone?) rather than actually being able to physically reach her.

Not sure I’ve explained that very well, hope it makes sense!

I don't think he could reach her, bringing this post forward.

Pyrénées. Après son crâne, le reste du corps et le matériel d'Esther Dingley retrouvés | Actu Toulouse
snipped
On Monday afternoon, Dan Colegate spotted the body below the Pic de la Gléré, in an area that was "very difficult to access", and reported it to the gendarmes, who intervened on site.
A team of forensic doctors, as well as mountain rescue personnel, were dispatched to the scene on Tuesday morning in order to carry out investigations and recover Esther's body. Specialists from the Luchon High Mountain Gendarmerie Platoon (PGHM) were on the scene, along with soldiers from the Toulouse Investigation Section and the Criminal Investigation Technicians (TIC) from the Ville rose.

Without venturing into the circumstances of the death, the family specifies that "at this stage", "given the location and other early indications", the "most likely" hypothesis is that of an accident. This is also the preferred hypothesis of the Saint-Gaudens public prosecutor and the Toulouse investigation unit, and the current investigation must confirm this in order to understand the exact circumstances of Esther's death.

"In the light of these latest discoveries, nothing allows us to envisage another hypothesis," a source close to the case confirmed this Tuesday.


BBM

 

[ZaZara]

Interesting use of the term "camping gear" (which could also imply sleeping bag and mat, cooking gear etc) - or is it just a different way of saying "tent"?

IMO Chris Brockman did what others should have done before they published messages about the yellow tent allegedly missing: he checked with the authorities and used a general term, that would have included the tent.

The authorities will await confirmation. My bet is that, if the backpack was found in good order, the tent and the other camping gear will be in it too.

 

[pineapple23]

People who decided to kill themselves often might appear serene, peaceful or even cheerful as in their mind they've just found a perfect solution for all their troubles. So, I'd not exclude a possibility of a suicide, solely on the basis of Esther's appearance.

Agreed but I don't think I (or anyone else) suggested solely. I was just taking it into account along with all the other factors, that make suicide unlikely, in my opinion.

 

[OEJ-JEO]

This is the Pic de la Glère from the slopes of the Pic de Sacroux looking towards the Pic de Sauvegarde in the distance. France on the left, Spain on the right:

http://ekladata.com/WWb9HwNw8jBiIpJ8GV5FDG2vOvw.jpg

This is the same view from higher up the Pic de Sacroux. The lower ridge of the Sacroux obscures the screes below the Pic de la Glère, but there's a good view of the whole border ridge to the pyramidal summit of the Pic de Sauvegarde and beyond:

http://ekladata.com/bEqbK2kGzOoy76F-GpQ4RBmJ8ig.jpg

In the midground, at the end of the spur to left of the Pic de la Montagnette, you can clearly make out the famous "shortcut" that runs down the prominent gully and into the cirque below.