State v Bradley Cooper 04-18-2011

[Just the Fax]

I work from home.

Great.
You should be working at home while your wife is taking the kids for a play date. Again, we were talking about a free Saturday.

 

[Just the Fax]

So the ME said a 1 am TOD would be consistent if she ate her last meal at 7. That is 6 hours and there was still a piece of onion. So that means your theory that it wouldn't be there after 6 hours at the latest doesn't match what the ME testified to that her stomach contents would be consistent with someone who last ate at 7 and was killed at 1.

I thought it was ridiculous when I heard it, but now I believe it is quite possible she vomited while being choked to death in the foyer.

 

[SleuthSayer]

It's not that the M.E. didn't have all the info, and it's not that I or anyone have more info, it's that the state (specifically Cummings) didn't ask him enough or even the right questions to get all the info out. Cummings blew that questioning big time. It doesn't change the fact of what was in NC's stomach. Cummings was so intent on trying to prove a 1am TOD that he had the M.E. focus on things like Nancy's last meal at 7pm (note the M.E. said yes TOD could have been by 1am ...and that is 6 hrs after last bite of food). He also tried to go with a vomiting scenario as way to show an emptier stomach than would be expected if TOD is 1am.

Cummings didn't know how to question this doc. The M.E. answered what he was asked. But that max digestion time doesn't change--only the last bite of food time is variable. Move that last bite of food forward to midnight, and even with the maximum time to digest, Nancy is still dead by 6am, with a remaining segment of onion in her stomach.

Ah, I stand corrected. It's not the M.E., it's the prosecutor that needed some message board advice.

fftobed:

 

[Madeleine74]

I know it's a rough estimate. The table in that article says 4 to 5 hrs for a 'normal' meal to fully clear the stomach. I took the 5 hrs and added in yet another hour just to be safe and conservative. And I assumed in this conservative scenario that Nancy took her last bite of food at midnight before leaving the party. I don't know that to be true, but it's the most conservative assumption. She could have stopped eating at 11pm or 10pm. No idea. I picked the latest time and assumed a full 6 hrs to digest what she ate at the party. The party started around 6pm and she ate food items throughout those hours.

 

[johnfear]

Very serious.
2 different events entirely

1- Flights to get the hell out of Dodge - dodge the press and cops.
2- Look for future job opportunities in Canada

Ummm, then why didn't he just do it? He was arrested three months later. Would have been a lot crazier finding him up in old Canada and he already knew he was a suspect.

 

[borndem]

Neifong risked his career (and lost) on convicting the Duke lacrosse players. It's not that far fetched. Cary doesn't have many murders...this was very high profile.

All the more reason for all of them to be careful, precise, and keep good documentation. Certainly they also knew that this case could be a career-maker or a career-breaker.

 

[ncsu95]

I know it's a rough estimate. The table in that article says 4 to 5 hrs for a 'normal' meal to fully clear the stomach. I took the 5 hrs and added in yet another hour just to be safe and conservative. And I assumed in this conservative scenario that Nancy took her last bite of food at midnight before leaving the party. I don't know that to be true, but it's the most conservative assumption. She could have stopped eating at 11pm or 10pm. No idea. I picked the latest time and assumed a full 6 hrs to digest what she ate at the party. The party started around 6pm and she ate food items throughout those hours.

Well I just google searched "does chron's disease slow down digestion" and got lots of results. Chron's is a disorder of the digestive system (among other things). Stress also enhances this. But one of the symptoms is that it actually slows down digestion. So I don't think the normal tables apply to someone with Chron's disease. Here are a couple of the links:

http://www.healthline.com/health/crohns-disease/overview

http://www.suite101.com/content/crohns-disease-diet-a232364


Also, digestion apparently slows down when you are sleeping. Lots of links on that. Here is one:

http://uclue.com/?xq=3734


So who the heck knows what that piece of onion means with regards to time of death. But someone sleeping, under stress, and with Chron's disease will not digest food at the same rate as a non-stressed person that is awake without Chron's.

 

[FullDisclosure]

The M.E. was asked a bunch of hypothetical questions. "Assume Nancy ate her last meal at 7pm then would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." Assume Nancy vomited after coming home, would that be consistent with a TOD of xx:xx." The physical condition of Nancy's body, with the level of decomp, doesn't narrow the TOD by itself. But that onion segment was there and we know the approx time she left the party to walk across the street.

We aren't trying to prove Nancy died by 1am. So in looking at the food in her stomach, assuming she didn't vomit and all else was well, what's the maximum time it would take to digest ALL the food, including the onion? Certainly within 6 hrs. Oh but there was still an onion segment left in her stomach. Undigested.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/9293074/#/vid9293074

Go back and listen to the testimony of the Chief ME (now retired). Just for sport, you may want to listen from 1:09 on, but all you really need is the last question from Trenkle on re-cross:

Trenkle: There is nothing in your autopsy that would be inconsistent with Nancy cooper having left her home shortly after 7 am and being killed sometime in the next 4-5 hours on July 12, 2008, is there?

Butts: No Sir, there would be nothing inconsistent with her death having occurred that morning.

Do I think BC did it? Probably. Did the ME's testimony prove it? No.

 

[FullDisclosure]

Well I just google searched "does chron's disease slow down digestion" and got lots of results. Chron's is a disorder of the digestive system (among other things). Stress also enhances this. But one of the symptoms is that it actually slows down digestion. So I don't think the normal tables apply to someone with Chron's disease. Here are a couple of the links:

http://www.healthline.com/health/crohns-disease/overview

http://www.suite101.com/content/crohns-disease-diet-a232364


Also, digestion apparently slows down when you are sleeping. Lots of links on that. Here is one:

http://uclue.com/?xq=3734


So who the heck knows what that piece of onion means with regards to time of death. But someone sleeping, under stress, and with Chron's disease will not digest food at the same rate as a non-stressed person that is awake without Chron's.

The Chief ME (expert witness for the State) said that he did not believe Nancy's Chron's disease impacted his findings. If you're interested, that question is the last question in Cumming's re-direct in the link I provided above for Sleuthy Maddie.

 

[ncsu95]

The Chief ME (expert witness for the State) said that he did not believe Nancy's Chron's disease impacted his findings. If you're interested, that question is the last question in Cumming's re-direct in the link I provided above for Sleuthy Maddie.

Even without the Chron's disease, digestion is slowed while sleeping.

 

[borndem]

Is there recourse for a witness who the defense attempts to pin the murder on or make look guilty or as an accessory if there is no evidence that person was involved?

If they did with with lies, there's always perjury and perhaps fraud. IDK.

 

[cody100]

Dr. Butts answered questions, he did not offer unsolicited opinions.
Betcha Cummings would love to redo his entire line of questioning for this witness.

Cummins isn't new to this business by any means. Maybe a refresher course is in order for him.

 

[cody100]

And show of hands, who believes Daniels and Young wanted Cooper down at the station because it was "quieter"? Come on. I would not go anywhere with those jokes coming from either side. (If you like and em and think they are great, they were gonna dunk em. If you hate em and think they are inept and dishonest, they were gonna dunk em.)

Oh, don't you think they wanted to give him cookies and milk and show him a good movie? :laugh:

 

[Leanne]

Well I just google searched "does chron's disease slow down digestion" and got lots of results. Chron's is a disorder of the digestive system (among other things). Stress also enhances this. But one of the symptoms is that it actually slows down digestion. So I don't think the normal tables apply to someone with Chron's disease. Here are a couple of the links:

http://www.healthline.com/health/crohns-disease/overview

http://www.suite101.com/content/crohns-disease-diet-a232364


Also, digestion apparently slows down when you are sleeping. Lots of links on that. Here is one:

http://uclue.com/?xq=3734


So who the heck knows what that piece of onion means with regards to time of death. But someone sleeping, under stress, and with Chron's disease will not digest food at the same rate as a non-stressed person that is awake without Chron's.

My s-i-l suffers from Chrones (nearly died as a result) and onion is one of the foods he is not supposed to eat because of the difficulty with digestion.

 

[BrownRice]

The questioning of Dr Butts was one of the lowest points in the states case. Too bad for Cummings, because they really had a chance to shine.

I completely agree. IMO, this testimony as well as the bug dr was refuted by defense - absolutely no certainties related to time.

 

[cody100]

I completely agree. IMO, this testimony as well as the bug dr was refuted by defense - absolutely no certainties related to time.

I also did not think the soil analysis was very conclusive at all. It should be interesting to see what defense puts on for its evidence.

 

[filesman]

You might want to listen to the call again. Here's the link.

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/video/9273562/#/vid9273562

First of all, it sounds like a male officer that initially interviewed JA on the phone. (Otherwise, there is a serious glandular problem, but that's another issue...) Then the call was handed over to a female dispatcher. Around the 10 minute mark, JA tells the interviewer that she and HP are both very worried that her husband may have done something. She described HP as hysterical. If that information was NOT passed along to LE early on in the investigation, someone dropped the ball. (I don't believe they did drop the ball--I believe that LE knew from the beginning that her friends thought BC did something to her. For them to suggest otherwise, or that they were never suspicious of BC the first day is ridiculous.)

This phone call and the declaring by her friends that brad did something. By all accounts Nancy was known to exaggerate. Don't get me wrong Brad was a total **s. But I believe this marriage was bad from both sides. If my missing spouse's friends accused me of harming her. It would be cold day in he** before I would let them near my kids, let alone take them for an extended period of time. Brad did this. It doesn't make sense to me.

It also bothers me that a deposition regarding child custody had such questioning. If you ask me it was a murder investigation deposition. It should have never been allowed to continue by brads attorney. The tone of the depo bothers me and it bothers me that it was allowed in furing this trial. I believe it was a complete set up by AS and the police. it was evidence gathering. I guess I don't know alot about our judicial system to know why this was allowed. I believe Brad did it.. But I also am wondering whether as a Juror, I could find him guilty. I would like to know more info about this google search and how it was found. I did not realize that zooming in on map was "saved" in computer memory...

 

[Towhee]

... I would like to know more info about this google search and how it was found. I did not realize that zooming in on map was "saved" in computer memory...

If you haven't already, you might want to check out 'parent controls' on your computer, sometimes provided as part of anti-virus software. You can see pictures, search keywords, view browsing history. It's all there in the cookies, temporary folders and other browser related files. Email is a little different, but I'm no expert.

 

[sunshine05]

It's silly to argue over the piece of onion. Even the ME said it "appeared to be a piece of onion". He could not even be sure, probably because it was subjected to large amounts of stomach acid by that point. It has no significance to this case and wasn't even pushed by the state as "evidence".

 

[less0305]

i guess that is my point, he told the wrong story for a cover-up. It would have seemed more likely that they had a huge "hate-mode" fight at the party and she never came home, or at least that he remembers, than to say everything else he did. But then again, he couldn't leave home with the kids there by themselves, unless she was there. I am just suggesting there were flaws in his initial story. At this point it is just speculation. If you believe he murdered NC as I do, then there must be a story. Trying to figure that story out and where it went wrong is a big part of his possible eventual conviction.

I've said all along that he came up with the running/stranger lie and once told he had to stick with it. He should have come up with a boyfriend/affair/friends-cover-up lie and, by the looks of things here, that would have floated wayyyyyyy better. Cop: "Mr. C., do you know where your wife is?" Mr. C: "Nope, she was madder than all hell at the party last night. She's been stepping out on me behind my back and talking to old boyfriends, having secret convos with her friends hubbies, and I think even possibly an attraction to her friend JA. I never saw her come in from the party. Check with JA or HP, they know more about her comings and goings than I do. Oh, and by the way, when I got up this morning this here diamond necklace was thrown up on the stoop. She talked to a realtor about moving out. I think she finally decided to fly the coop."