State vs Jason Young 2-17-2012

[otto]

I think everyone was assuming that compared to the other shoes in his closet they were on low end. u can pick them up at dollar stores and walmart. just guessing. moo

The price range, without knowing the exact shoe, is $100 - $300.

 

[johnfear]

The unexplained prints are a problem.

 

[otto]

Prints on camera and water pipe of no value.

 

[Bottle Cap]

There is one at the corner of Lake Wheeler and Tryon Road. Didn't they live off of Lake Wheeler?

Traveler, actually the Dollar General on Lake Wheeler Rd is about 2 miles away from the Handee Hugo's he stopped at on the way to VA. Coming down Lake Wheeler to get to that Handee Hugo's, he'd have to go right past the Dollar General.

 

[Just the Fax]

The price range, without knowing the exact shoe, is $100 - $300.

Price range for what???
Franklin shoes are in the $15-$20 range at Dollar General.

We know exactly what he paid for many of his shoes, because he bought several of them at DSW and the prices paid are in evidence.

 

[luckyme]

The price range, without knowing the exact shoe, is $100 - $300.

It was a different shoe. They had a picture somewhere. kmart has them. also walmart i believe. moo

 

[otto]

Six prints in the home were not identified.

 

[gritguy]

I have read that men that murder their wives often do so because of the pressures of the marriage and that immediately after the murder, they feel a complete sense of relaxed relief - along the lines of having solved the problem. Neil Entwhistle is a good example of this.

Good point. They do react differently; depends on the person. I've been around more murderers than I'd like (prefer 0) and been around enough scenes and investigations of violence and murders to have the opinion that post murder behavior can vary considerably.

 

[MyBelle]

I have read that men that murder their wives often do so because of the pressures of the marriage and that immediately after the murder, they feel a complete sense of relaxed relief - along the lines of having solved the problem. Neil Entwhistle is a good example of this.

The Entwhistle murders were done with a gun and there was not a violent, bloody struggle or battering of the head and face. Entwhistle also exhibited personality characteristics that were problematic.

JMO

 

[frankdrack]

Could be, but not sure he thought about leaving bloody foot prints at all.
(assumed he planned a knockout blow and strangulation).

Maybe, but how do you think the size 10 shoes are intoduced?

 

[luckyme]

Price range for what???
Franklin shoes are in the $15-$20 range at Dollar General.

We know exactly what he paid for many of his shoes, because he bought several of them at DSW and the prices paid are in evidence.

Someone asked yesterday if there was a dollar general next to the cracker barrel. Not sure who! :seeya:

 

[otto]

Good point. They do react differently; depends on the person. I've been around more murderers than I'd like (prefer 0) and been around enough scenes and investigations of violence and murders to have the opinion that post murder behavior can vary considerably.

So you are criminal lawyer? I'm curious ... weren't you already verified as a lawyer in the Cooper case, or was I making assumptions.

 

[fran]

My daughter who's a forensic chemist said that contrary to what most people think, there's more times that prints are not detected at crime scene than are.

Having said that, this testimony is showing the prints you would expect, JY and MY, one set of MF on the door, but then prints of MY's dad, yet he hadn't been in the home for 6 months. The witness said that's not unusual, because the interior of the home is 'protected environment.' Having said that, there were 6 prints that were not identified. But as the dad's prints were still there after 6 months, it's understandable that there may be unid'd prints, and they could have been there for months, from workman who'd previously entered the home.

JMHO
fran

ETA...Oh, some unidentified prints were 'partial,' and stated as 'unidentified.' But they were enough to determine, JY couldn't be EXCLUDED as the person who made the print, but not enough to actually id him. So, it appears some of the 'unidentified prints COULD be JY's.

 

[dgfred]

Exactly, maybe evidence on the moulding was there well before the murder ... so if he was wearing gloves, to explain some evidence, we can't have him not wearing gloves to explain other evidence. We either have to exclude the print on the moulding, or exclude him wearing gloves.

I don't understand what you are getting at.

Are the prints on the molding JY's that you are speaking of?

If so, being there before the crime doesn't have anything to do with gloves on during the crime.

 

[Wolfpack]

I don't understand what you are getting at.

Are the prints on the molding JY's that you are speaking of?

If so, being there before the crime doesn't have anything to do with gloves on during the crime.

Otto is saying that if you believe JY was wearing gloves at the scene, the print on the frame is a non-issue. Because he wouldn't take off his gloves in the middle of the murder, put a print on the wall, and then put them back on. And it's not like there is a splatter of blood with the outline of a hand in the middle.

 

[gritguy]

So you are criminal lawyer? I'm curious ... weren't you already verified as a lawyer in the Cooper case, or was I making assumptions.

No and yes. I don't do any trials any more; I'm in business now. I was mostly civil in practice, but I worked with an NC state agency on unsolved cross-jurisdictrional violent crimes (rape and murder) for a couple years, and during practice was involved (represented) with the PD of an NC city, some white collar defense, and some assistance to the DA's office. I specifically never wanted to be a criminal defense lawyer (cynical), "family" lawyer (depressed), or tax lawyer (bored). I am certainly not an expert criminal lawyer!

 

[dgfred]

Could be, but not sure he thought about leaving bloody foot prints at all.
(assumed he planned a knockout blow and strangulation).

I think the size 10s were in case any prints were made like in the yard or anywhere... size 12 prints were the backup afterwards then they had to get 'dirty' too, darn it. Got to throw away the good HPs now.

 

[gritguy]

My daughter who's a forensic chemist said that contrary to what most people think, there's more times that prints are not detected at crime scene than are.

Having said that, this testimony is showing the prints you would expect, JY and MY, one set of MF on the door, but then prints of MY's dad, yet he hadn't been in the home for 6 months. The witness said that's not unusual, because the interior of the home is 'protected environment.' Having said that, there were 6 prints that were not identified. But as the dad's prints were still there after 6 months, it's understandable that there may be unid'd prints, and they could have been there for months, from workman who'd previously entered the home.

JMHO
fran

ETA...Oh, some unidentified prints were 'partial,' and stated as 'unidentified.' But they were enough to determine, JY couldn't be EXCLUDED as the person who made the print, but not enough to actually id him. So, it appears some of the 'unidentified prints COULD be JY's.

totally agree, but the extra prints and wrong size shoes can cause a furrowed brow...

 

[dgfred]

Otto is saying that if you believe JY was wearing gloves at the scene, the print on the frame is a non-issue. Because he wouldn't take off his gloves in the middle of the murder, put a print on the wall, and then put them back on. And it's not like there is a splatter of blood with the outline of a hand in the middle.

Not so, he doesn't have to be wearing gloves during the entire time he was there. He may have had to do something extra... in addition to his prints already being there.

 

[dmaxphil]

I'm new here and apologize if any of this is out of line. Some of my thoughts on this case after trying desperately to get caught up..

I'm analyzing this case from the perspective of a husband, a father of 1 daughter with another daughter 2 months away. I work in sales and travel frequently. I have never had an affair or cheated on my wife, but have business associates who behave similar to JY (They are married and pursue women ).

Most of the "guilty" theories here and elsewhere seem to have been created under the presumption of guilt. I've tried to presume JY was innocent before looking at evidence. I also ask myself "what would I do?"

1) Re: Talking to police: JY was on his way home to Raleigh after murder when it became apparent investigators were focusing their questions on him. His friends told him to lawyer up and not talk. He failed to help police find killer. Never assisted with investigation. My take: Having LE in my family, I have always been told that suspects should NEVER talk to police - even during a traffic stop. The reason is that it CAN NEVER help. Anything you say can be used as evidence against you. Anything you say CAN NOT be used to help you in court. Once you agree to talk, police could quite literally lie about what you said and it would be your word against theirs. As hard as this would be, I would have done exactly as JY. However, I would likely have been more open with friends and my murdered wife's family.

2) RE: JY was a Jerk and a cheater. The couple fought a lot. Marriage was not happy. JY has a history of being angry. My take: It requires a gigantic leap in logic to say this makes him a likely murderer. Going back through testimony, JY & MY appeared to have a normal dysfunctional marriage. They were still young and clashed often, but there was no history of violence and no threats of violence. He cheated often and chased every opportunity to cheat. This makes him an idiot not a murderer. He was also apparently a fantastic father


3) RE: The Murder Trip: In order to believe JY is guilty, you must believe he traveled from Hillsville,VA to 5108 Birchleaf and back, while stopping in King, NC along the way.
3a: Rock/Stick in door. - I confess, I do this all the time. After a couple of experiences of having a key card not work on the exterior door and having to walk around hotel to get back in - I have started propping door while I smoke, get stuff out of car, etc.
3b: Hotel camera tampered with - Pretty damning but still we're dealing with a hotel that had 30-40 other guests. Was time stamped video ever recovered that showed ceiling? - since camera was pointed up. Night clerk (Hicks?) seemed to have trouble with the time - said he noticed camera unplugged around 3-4:30 and then noticed it turned back up 10-30 mins later. Shift ended at 7? So camera was moved between 3:30 and 6:00?
3c: Drive/Murder time - Detective made trip in 2.5 hours. How fast was detective driving? This is a 3 hour trip. Pros wants us to believe JY risked speeding after the murder? JY would have had to traveled at an average speed of 65 mph to make this trip in 2.5 hrs. Is it possible to kill a person with 30 blows, change shoes multiple times, move body, move crap around in house (papers, boxes, etc), remove rings - jewelry boxes, change clothes, wash baby, drug baby, rinse off with backyard hose, load bags in car and find place to discard bags/clothes in approx 1 hour?
3d: Gas station in King, NC - If we believe this attendant, JY is 100% guilty. However, as a master murder planner, JY would have filled up with gas in Hillsville and not required more gas. Even if you think this is not case, pros wants me to believe that JY was upset because he could not pump gas without going inside? I have NEVER been able to pump gas before paying at 12 - 6am. Am I to believe that master planner JY would risk stealing gas when he was likely one of the few white Ford explorers on the road near King, NC at that time? Am I to believe that JY intended to pay using a CC? Also, would he risk the possibility of a camera catching his actions here. Prove to me that he visited here recently and confirmed cameras were not in operation
3e: Phone was off - How in the heck can you prove you are sleeping?
3f: Would he risk being caught on what I would imagine are numerous traffic cameras between Hillsville and Raleigh? Where is this footage?

4) RE: Stuff he did prior to trip/Weekend plans: Football tailgating was a big event for the Young family. They had big plans this weekend. He was under the impression that MY's father was coming. He cut the grass/cleaned the yard prior to leaving because he was worried about what MY's dad would think. This is huge for me. There is no way I would go through this step if I had planned a murder for that evening

5) Internet searches about injuries - I'm guilty of searching for really weird stuff. Autopsy photos, crime scene stuff - I would hate to imagine what folks would think of me if they saw my internet activity - enough said, Also, the fact that JY witnessed the crash/head injuries makes this very believable.

6) Anyone else absolutely creeped out when Shelly spoke about feeling like someone was watching her in the Young's house that night?? And that MY said to Shelly - paraphrasing "If someone breaks in your house and kills ya, they just kill ya". WTH??!!!


I'm going to stop here because this is getting to be really long. This case grabbed my attention because I can't help but wonder what I would do if these things happened to me/my family. It's scary how easily this could happen to an innocent man (not saying JY is innocent, just that the evidence is crap)