Steve Thomas's Theory/Murder Timeline

[Anti-K]

Anti-K,

There is a substantial time gap between JonBenet being sexually assaulted and her being asphyxiated, one expert has suggested an interval of 45 minutes?

JonBenet was not simply sexually assaulted then asphyxiated, inbetween she was also whacked on the head and her body sustained numerous contusions and abrasions.


But the sexual assault did not occur near the point of death. JonBenet was whacked on the head after being sexually assaulted, she was still alive at this point, since dead people do not bleed. There is nothing probable about her being sexually assaulted in the basement. It is more probable she was relocated there away from the primary crime-scene, likely located somewhere upstairs, e.g. her bedroom, or the breakfast bar.

1996-12-27: Search Warrant 755 15 Street, Boulder, Colorado

Someone definitely wiped JonBenet clean with a cloth. Presumably JonBenet's assailant removed the size-12's prior to assaulting her, then wiped her down, finally redressing her in the unstained size-12's?

August 28, 2000 Atlanta BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt

Patsy's claims regarding the size-12's are vague and nebulous, subject to episodes of amnesia.


[August 28, 2000 Atlanta BPD Patsy Ramsey Interview, Excerpt


So if you reckon, for whatever reason, that JonBenet wore the size-12's prior to going to bed on 12/25/1996, and that this was normal practice, then why were there no size-12's in JonBenet's underwear drawer as Patsy claimed, in fact none could be found in the house?


You are parroting the R's version of events here. This version of events has been shown to be inconsistent, i.e. pineapple residue in JonBenet's stomach, and BR awake during the 911 call, as admitted by the R's. As I've mentioned before RDI theories that fail to explain away either size-12's or pink barbie nightgown are inconsistent and untestable.

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You’re mistaken. The 45 minute interval you refer to is the estimated time – not agreed upon – between the head blow and death. The sexual assault occurred at or near time of death. This is a well-established and accepted fact. See here: http://tinyurl.com/o9chnrq

Since Jonbenet was assaulted at or near point of death, she was probably assaulted in the basement and as I described in post 454, above.
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If Jonbenet was wearing size 12 panties, than there were size 12 panties in the house regardless of what investigators might have found or what they claimed during the interviews.
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I am not “parroting the R's version of events.” I am stating facts - the evidence does not show that her panties, or any other clothing, was changed between the time she was put to bed and the time that her lifeless body was discovered.
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AK

 

[UKGuy]

You’re mistaken. The 45 minute interval you refer to is the estimated time – not agreed upon – between the head blow and death. The sexual assault occurred at or near time of death. This is a well-established and accepted fact. See here: http://tinyurl.com/o9chnrq

Since Jonbenet was assaulted at or near point of death, she was probably assaulted in the basement and as I described in post 454, above.
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If Jonbenet was wearing size 12 panties, than there were size 12 panties in the house regardless of what investigators might have found or what they claimed during the interviews.
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I am not “parroting the R's version of events.” I am stating facts - the evidence does not show that her panties, or any other clothing, was changed between the time she was put to bed and the time that her lifeless body was discovered.
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AK

Anti-K,

The 45 minute interval you refer to is the estimated time – not agreed upon – between the head blow and death.

OK its an estimate. Why does that make your estimate any better than anyone elses?

I am not “parroting the R's version of events.” I am stating facts -

BBM:You absolutely are. What you cite and the Ramsey's version of events coincide, including the size-12's, so its not fact, its what the suspects say themselves. You are simply making stuff up to suit your current theory.

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[UKGuy]

Because of the forensic discovery of pineapple in JB's system, and the fact that her hair had two ponytails, I can agree that JB could have been wearing the Wednesday panties under the longjohns, as well as her white Gap shirt, when she was assaulted and killed, not being redressed after the crime. Also, lint on the bottom of her feet seem to indicate to me that there would have been no fabric taken off/on over her feet after she was in a prone position, since it might have also taken the lint with it. She most likely would have been alive either sitting or standing somewhere where her feet could gather lint, already in the longjohns, and no further disturbance made to the bottoms of her feet once she was no longer on them.


Most of the outfit she wore to the White's was carefully laid out on the other bed in her room. If JB was given the concession of wearing the new Bloomi's because other properly fitting, unstained underwear was packed for Michigan and then the Disney trip, it would make sense Patsy and JB would choose the Wednesday pair, since it was Christmas that year on Wednesday. The large Wednesday Bloomi's would not have been much of an issue being worn under tight LongJohn's just during night sleep.

Perhaps the plan was to have JB arise early, already in the Gap shirt, remove the bottoms, and redress her in the carefully laid out clothing she had worn to the White's for the plane trip to Michigan? PR in same Christmas outfit on the 26th, and JB in her same outfit? OK for plane travel, with a fresh change planned for their immediate arrival in Michigan prior to their other family celebration?

midwest mama,

Most of the outfit she wore to the White's was carefully laid out on the other bed in her room. If JB was given the concession of wearing the new Bloomi's because other properly fitting, unstained underwear was packed for Michigan and then the Disney trip, it would make sense Patsy and JB would choose the Wednesday pair, since it was Christmas that year on Wednesday. The large Wednesday Bloomi's would not have been much of an issue being worn under tight LongJohn's just during night sleep.

And no size-12 underwear was found in JonBenet's underwear drawer or in the house because?

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[Anti-K]

Anti-K,

OK its an estimate. Why does that make your estimate any better than anyone elses?


BBM:You absolutely are. What you cite and the Ramsey's version of events coincide, including the size-12's, so its not fact, its what the suspects say themselves. You are simply making stuff up to suit your current theory.

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Your post reads as if you missed the point – completely; totally.

I’ll try again: YOUR claim that 45 minutes passed between the sexual assault and the asphyxiation is WRONG. And, no expert ever made such a claim. The fact is that the sexual assault occurred at or near point of death. Once again, see here: http://tinyurl.com/o9chnrq
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I am not citing the Ramsey’s version of events, I am citing evidence (or, rather, the lack of). However, it is possible that the Ramsey’s version coincides with the evidence (or, rather, lack of).
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AK

 

[Anti-K]

midwest mama,

And no size-12 underwear was found in JonBenet's underwear drawer or in the house because?

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“[N]o size-12 underwear was found in JonBenet's underwear drawer or in the house because” investigators lied, or because they didn’t look good enough, or they just missed them. Obviously, there were size 12s in the house because Jonbenet was wearing a pair of them.
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AK

 

[DeeDee249]

“[N]o size-12 underwear was found in JonBenet's underwear drawer or in the house because” investigators lied, or because they didn’t look good enough, or they just missed them. Obviously, there were size 12s in the house because Jonbenet was wearing a pair of them.
..
AK

I think police looked in JB's panty drawer (which was actually in her bathroom) and her bedroom for panties. I don't think they looked in the basement. I think the panties were in the basement all along- first wrapped in with gifts to be sent to JB's cousin Jenny and later hidden -possibly in the golf bag or somehow gotten out of the house. Although the remaining panties were sent to the BPD via the Rs lawyer, there is no way to prove it was the same set. If it was, the "Wednesday" pair should have been missing, and the remaining panties should have been of similar style and fabric. I have bought those novelty "Day of the Week" sets myself- they usually consist of 7 pairs labeled with the days of the week, and the panties are of the same style, but different colors or prints. It would have been easy back then to determine whether the set that was sent to the BPD (via the Rs lawyer) were sold in the Blooingdale's store in NYC in 1996 but I doubt anyone from Boulder LE ever did.

 

[midwest mama]

midwest mama,

And no size-12 underwear was found in JonBenet's underwear drawer or in the house because?

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I believe the underwear were in the house, but must agree that IF JonBenet had been changed into them in her room you would think the others/package would have been found there. DeeDee249 may have it right about them being in the basement, but does that mean then that JB would have been changed into them there? Burke had been snooping in the basement packages earlier on Christmas according to Kolar, so he could have known about them if they were wrapped.

Then where does that line of thought lead?

 

[Anti-K]

I don’t take as gospel everything that investigators said to the Ramseys during the interviews. They may not have collected the panties, but the panties almost certainly had to have been there. Mrs Ramsey admitted that they were in the house. Jonbenet was wearing a pair of them. If they were not collected than they [whoever collected the underwear] either missed them, or they ignored them.

It makes sense that they would collect the panties that had been worn/used. But, brand new panties, still packaged? I can see them being left behind.
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AK

 

[UKGuy]

I believe the underwear were in the house, but must agree that IF JonBenet had been changed into them in her room you would think the others/package would have been found there. DeeDee249 may have it right about them being in the basement, but does that mean then that JB would have been changed into them there? Burke had been snooping in the basement packages earlier on Christmas according to Kolar, so he could have known about them if they were wrapped.

Then where does that line of thought lead?

midwest mama,
BBM: Directly to BDI. If you revisit Kolar's theory, he has BR implicitly relocating JonBenet down to the basement, yet people doubt that he was physically capable.

If you tweak Kolar's theory to allow someone else to move JonBenet down to the basement then it becomes even more credible. My favored candidate is PR, she setup the basement as a crime-scene smashed the window etc, likely arranged some things i.e. samsonite suitcase, chair etc.

Along comes JR and at the last moment decides a kidnapping might work out better, i.e. no body might mean the R's can flee interstate, so PR is tasked with authoring the RN and JR redresses and relocates JonBenet, as JR or PR review the evidence one of them put the pink barbie nightgown into the wine-cellar, i.e. like the body out of sight.

Later JR as he walks about the house tweaks all the visible evidence, i.e. chair, suitcase etc, and anything we do not know about, e.g. size-12 underwear package, etc.

So its BDI with the primary crime-scene upstairs, i.e. Breakfast-Bar or JonBenet's bedroom, bear in mind PR might have staged a crime-scene in JonBenet's bedroom?

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[Mama2JML]

I don’t take as gospel everything that investigators said to the Ramseys during the interviews. They may not have collected the panties, but the panties almost certainly had to have been there. Mrs Ramsey admitted that they were in the house. Jonbenet was wearing a pair of them. If they were not collected than they [whoever collected the underwear] either missed them, or they ignored them.

It makes sense that they would collect the panties that had been worn/used. But, brand new panties, still packaged? I can see them being left behind.
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AK

Ditto to that which is BBM...

So, the package of "bloomies" could very well have been in JonBenét's bedroom/bathroom, but overlooked/discounted by LE.

On to the "nightgown"; might it have been on JonBenét's bed then moved along (unknowingly) with the blanket & JonBenét, to the basement?

 

[zencompass]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Reading Patsey's sister's interview, she emphatically states that neither Patsey nor John killed JonBenet However I don't see where she states that BR did not kill his sister and Pam states that she knows that it was motivated by envy and jealousy and that she knows who did this. Is she thinking BR did this and the R's covered it up? JMO

 

[Mama2JML]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Reading Patsey's sister's interview, she emphatically states that neither Patsey nor John killed JonBenet However I don't see where she states that BR did not kill his sister and Pam states that she knows that it was motivated by envy and jealousy and that she knows who did this. Is she thinking BR did this and the R's covered it up? JMO

Interesting thoughts, but that's not my interpretation. I'm not sure who Pam Paugh suspects now or who she's suspected in the past. An excerpt from PP's 10.19.98 LKL interview: (BBM)

KING: Do you -- I think the "Atlanta Journal Constitution" quoted you as saying that you had three people in mind. You didn't name who they were. You did say earlier, they were someone close. Can you elaborate a little?
PAUGH: Only to say that I think there's probably -- everyone in your viewing audience tonight can think of someone in your life who is not a blood or marriage-related family member, but certainly through contact and through activities and travel and holidays can be considered a part of the extended, close family circle.
KING: And that's where all three of these people are, in your opinion? They're in that extension?
PAUGH: That is the bulk of it. And then there is one that I believe could be even a further extension of that circle.
KING: Did you tell those names to the police?
PAUGH: Yes.​

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-pam-paugh.htm

 

[Anti-K]

Ditto to that which is BBM...

So, the package of "bloomies" could very well have been in JonBenét's bedroom/bathroom, but overlooked/discounted by LE.

On to the "nightgown"; might it have been on JonBenét's bed then moved along (unknowingly) with the blanket & JonBenét, to the basement?

It’s hard to see the night gown being in the basement as anything either than chance. Probably, it was on the bed, or with the blanket (which might have been on the bed, or in a dryer, or...?) and it was inadvertently caught up when Jonbenet and/or the blanket was picked up by the killer. He may not have even been aware of tis presence.

Blood on the night gown is an interesting find. Was it fresh blood? If it was, could it have simply transferred there from whatever instrument was used for the penetration (presumably, the missing end of the paint brush)? Once again, unknowingly.
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AK

 

[UKGuy]

It’s hard to see the night gown being in the basement as anything either than chance. Probably, it was on the bed, or with the blanket (which might have been on the bed, or in a dryer, or...?) and it was inadvertently caught up when Jonbenet and/or the blanket was picked up by the killer. He may not have even been aware of tis presence.

Blood on the night gown is an interesting find. Was it fresh blood? If it was, could it have simply transferred there from whatever instrument was used for the penetration (presumably, the missing end of the paint brush)? Once again, unknowingly.
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AK

Anti-K,
BBM: There was also a bloodstain on JonBenet's bedroom pillow. Along with bloodstains on her nightgown, suggests to me that minimally JonBenet was staged in her bedroom, or it is the primary crime-scene?

If the large pants found on the bedroom floor are actually BR's as hinted at by Kolar, then its game over, its BDI with the parents staging?

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[Anti-K]

Anti-K,
BBM: There was also a bloodstain on JonBenet's bedroom pillow. Along with bloodstains on her nightgown, suggests to me that minimally JonBenet was staged in her bedroom, or it is the primary crime-scene?

If the large pants found on the bedroom floor are actually BR's as hinted at by Kolar, then its game over, its BDI with the parents staging?

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I don’t know if either blood stain is fresh, or related to the crime.

The sexual assault occurred at or near point of death, so it almost certainly occurred in the basement when (and, where) she was asphyxiated. She may have been attacked (head blow, stunned if stunned, etc) in the bedroom first.
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AK

 

[BBB167893]

The sexual assault occurred at or near point of death, so it almost certainly occurred in the basement when (and, where) she was asphyxiated. She may have been attacked (head blow, stunned if stunned, etc) in the bedroom first.

That's one thing you and I will agree on!

 

[midwest mama]

I don’t know if either blood stain is fresh, or related to the crime.

The sexual assault occurred at or near point of death, so it almost certainly occurred in the basement when (and, where) she was asphyxiated. She may have been attacked (head blow, stunned if stunned, etc) in the bedroom first.
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AK

We have to remember that LHP said she changed the bedding on the 23rd, which was the last day she worked at the R's. There most likely would have been no blood stains visible to her on that day, at least on the pillowcase.

 

[Anti-K]

Maybe she would have, maybe she wouldn’t. I don’t know. How much blood was there? Where on the pillowcase? Was it old – one of those stains that never comes out in the wash? And, what happened between the 23 and the 25th? Etc.
I just have questions on this one and no answers.
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AK

 

[Tadpole12]

It’s hard to see the night gown being in the basement as anything either than chance.
AK

So why could JBR not have worn the nightgown that night?
and all the items she was discovered clothed in be part of staging.

Not meaning to nit pick at ya, but I just recently discovered the fact of the of the adult Dr Seuss book so I'm wondering what state of undress JBR might have been in, when in the basement.

 

[Anti-K]

So why could JBR not have worn the nightgown that night?
and all the items she was discovered clothed in be part of staging.

Not meaning to nit pick at ya, but I just recently discovered the fact of the of the adult Dr Seuss book so I'm wondering what state of undress JBR might have been in, when in the basement.

She could have worn it that night. She could have worn a lot of things that night. However, there is no evidence that she wore anything other than what she was found in.
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AK