Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Karinna]

Nothing initially ... but in 2016 Kevin was broke and brought it up after seeing MaM. Rahmlow filed bankruptcy in 2016 - if you believe Zellners' fairy tales, you can certainly believe how Rahmlow might be paid for his affidavit.



Guessing/speculating - kinda like Zellner. Why don't you call BT and ask her ? And really ... what difference does it make ? And while you making your phone calls, give Rahmlow a call as well and ask him why he lied about seeing Colborn on 11/4.

Once again you are guessing/speculating. None of it is fact, because there is no link to support what you are stating.

 

[Karinna]

Maybe LE did check it out among the thousand other leads they had.

BBM - as Karinna would say ... you're guessing/speculating.

Most posters here that i have seen support their speculation based on fact that is supported with links.
And we can only guess what happened according to that. Some of the stuff in this case can't be proven because that ship sailed long ago when a thorough investigation should of been done and wasn't. The chain of evidence is also very dodgy in this case, because of the way this case was handled. We all know that as fact, because evidence wasn't handled or documented properly etc.

 

[Sustained]

Once again you are guessing/speculating. None of it is fact, because there is no link to support what you are stating.

None of the accusations the truthers make against BoD, ST, RH, or Santa Claus can be backed up by fact. There is ZERO evidence of facts as you like to call them implicating ANY of them while the FACTS of the case have SA/BD exactly where they belong. All of Zellner's theories are guessing & speculation. All you have are experts PAID by Zellner to deliver the answers she wants.

 

[Sustained]

Once again you are guessing/speculating. None of it is fact, because there is no link to support what you are stating.

If you want evidence that Rahmlow was broke, go to www.pacer.gov and put his name in. You can actually get a list of his creditors and how much he owed. People with money don't file bankruptcy.

 

[Sustained]

Most posters here that i have seen support their speculation based on fact that is supported with links.
And we can only guess what happened according to that. Some of the stuff in this case can't be proven because that ship sailed long ago when a thorough investigation should of been done and wasn't. The chain of evidence is also very dodgy in this case, because of the way this case was handled. We all know that as fact, because evidence wasn't handled or documented properly etc.

BBM

Here's a definition of "speculation" for you just in case you forgot what it means ...

1. the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

And used in a sentence ...

Zellner speculates that Bobby Dassey broke into SA's trailer on 11/3, collected blood from the sink, traveled to the Old Dam and distributed the blood in the Rav4 to frame Steven Avery.

 

[CoolJ]

None of the accusations the truthers make against BoD, ST, RH, or Santa Claus can be backed up by fact. There is ZERO evidence of facts as you like to call them implicating ANY of them while the FACTS of the case have SA/BD exactly where they belong. All of Zellner's theories are guessing & speculation. All you have are experts PAID by Zellner to deliver the answers she wants.

You are so wrong about Expert testimony. Expert witnesses aren't paid to deliver the answer someone else wants. That is called corruption. Most experts in their fields are ethical professionals with integrity. It is absurd to think that these people are just putting their names on whatever Zellner wants them to say.

You do realize you are attacking the professional integrity of each of Zellners experts?

 

[Sustained]

You are so wrong about Expert testimony. Experts witnesses aren't paid to deliver the answer someone else wants. That is called corruption. Most experts in their fields are ethical professionals with integrity. It is absurd to think that these people are just putting their names on whatever Zellner wants them to say.

You do realize you are attacking the professional integrity of each of Zellners experts?

Spare me ... there are thousands of court cases where the defense has paid experts to bolster their cases without any professional damage to their reputations. Do you actually think the defense or appellate team would pay someone that would hurt the chances of their clients ?

We also have no way of knowing how many experts Zellner sent packing because she didn't like the results of their tests.

 

[missy1974]

Maybe LE did check it out among the thousand other leads they had.

BBM - as Karinna would say ... you're guessing/speculating.

I do believe the records were requested and it was not included. It would have been under the case number for Teresa. I also think that it was requested for any reports of abandoned vehicles. It wasn't there.

I was trying to point out that it would be LE's responsibility to check it out, not Rahmlow's like you implied in your previous post.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/MTSO-Dispatch-Logs.pdf
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

 

[CoolJ]

Spare me ... there are thousands of court cases where the defense has paid experts to bolster their cases without any professional damage to their reputations. Do you actually think the defense or appellate team would pay someone that would hurt the chances of their clients ?

We also have no way of knowing how many experts Zellner sent packing because she didn't like the results of their tests.

The vast majority of expert witnesses are ethical professionals with integrity. Expert witnesses carry weight in the courtroom and their opinion matters but it is up to a jury to decide just how much weight to give.

Unfortunately the original jury didn't get to hear key pieces of the story and they were mislead with regards to other parts of the story.

This case needs a re-trial.

 

[Sustained]

I do believe the records were requested and it was not included. It would have been under the case number for Teresa. I also think that it was requested for any reports of abandoned vehicles. It wasn't there.

I was trying to point out that it would be LE's responsibility to check it out, not Rahmlow's like you implied in your previous post.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/MTSO-Dispatch-Logs.pdf
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

Without me looking through the entire PDF, is Paul Burdick's sighting in the case file ? I will try and find the source, but I read somewhere the car by the Old Dam was checked out and found not to be TH's.

And I find it extremely hard to believe that a sighting of TH's vehicle at the Old Dam was not checked out due to the proximity to the Mishicot Police Station on 147.

 

[Sustained]

The vast majority of expert witnesses are ethical professionals with integrity. Expert witnesses carry weight in the courtroom and their opinion matters but it is up to a jury to decide just how much weight to give.

Unfortunately the original jury didn't get to hear key pieces of the story and they were mislead with regards to other parts of the story.

This case needs a re-trial.

BBM - pure speculation on your part.

I don't disagree that the vast majority of expert witnesses are ethical. But Zellner would never hire a blood spatter expert that believes that SA could've left his blood by the ignition switch while fumbling around in the dark with the key. And if it comes to it, the State will hire equal experts to counter any expert Zellner can produce.

 

[Amber29]

Sustained
Hi, haven’t really revisited this case thread since 2 years ago and just went back to the original guilty thread to refresh my memory. I notice that you used to kind of argue for the other side or atleast didn’t seem convinced of guilt. The thread of course is 73 pages and I’m only in the first 10, I was just wondering what changed your mind? I was convinced of SAs guilt after watching MaM1 and reading up on the evidence myself. I haven’t watched MaM2 yet because I wanted to refresh my memory of the actual evidence before watching it.

 

[missy1974]

Without me looking through the entire PDF, is Paul Burdick's sighting in the case file ? I will try and find the source, but I read somewhere the car by the Old Dam was checked out and found not to be TH's.

And I find it extremely hard to believe that a sighting of TH's vehicle at the Old Dam was not checked out due to the proximity to the Mishicot Police Station on 147.

I just searched Burdick in the CASO file, it didn't come up. Honestly, I haven't really looked much at these different sightings and where they were, but IIRC there different sightings reported, not all in the same spot, I think there was 2 spots along that highway, on either side of the river or dam or something, I'm not sure.

I thought Burdick just came forward recently, I don't recall his name being in the files.

ETA: here is his affidavit
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Exhibits-21-30.pdf#page=75

 

[Sustained]

Sustained
Hi, haven’t really revisited this case thread since 2 years ago and just went back to the original guilty thread to refresh my memory. I notice that you used to kind of argue for the other side or atleast didn’t seem convinced of guilt. The thread of course is 73 pages and I’m only in the first 10, I was just wondering what changed your mind? I was convinced of SAs guilt after watching MaM1 and reading up on the evidence myself. I haven’t watched MaM2 yet because I wanted to refresh my memory of the actual evidence before watching it.

Hi - I was first swayed toward innocence due to the pro-Avery bias in MaM1. Over time and after MaM1, I read everything about the case I could and to be honest ... forgot about it for awhile until I saw MaM2. But I had already changed my mind given the evidence that convicted Avery and the massive conspiracy that would have been necessary to frame Avery. Also, I tend to believe some of BD's confessions and I certainly believe what he told his mother. In combination with the evidence, Avery's background and treatment of women certainly pushed me over the edge. I also believe the stories of Avery with underage girls. I think he spent 18 years locked away due to a false ID by a woman and thinks women owe him something.

And for the record, I don't like Kratz at all. I don't think there's any such thing as a perfect police investigation and this one was not. However, I believe the local/state authorities did enough right to warrant the conviction of both.

 

[Sustained]

I just searched Burdick in the CASO file, it didn't come up. Honestly, I haven't really looked much at these different sightings and where they were, but IIRC there different sightings reported, not all in the same spot, I think there was 2 spots along that highway, on either side of the river or dam or something, I'm not sure.

I thought Burdick just came forward recently, I don't recall his name being in the files.

ETA: here is his affidavit
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Exhibits-21-30.pdf#page=75

Zellner would never use that in court as he didn't report it to police and IMO, the State would rip him apart on all of his past criminal charges. In fact, I'd be willing to bet Zellner drops the whole Old Dam sighting stuff if she gets an evidentiary hearing. Zellner also tweeted that she has 3 witnesses. Who is the 3rd ?

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
“Do we know if Bobby or ST ever interacted with TH prior to 10/31? Meaning is it possible that Bobby had his eye on her for a while before she was killed?” asked one user, to which Zellner responded, “Yes.”
And also according to KZ 3 witnesses saw the RAV up to the 11/04/o5, and then it was gone.
And
TH's RAV was spotted leaving the ASY with an unknown driver at 3:45pm.
'Making a Murderer' Attorney Kathleen Zellner Shares New Info

 

[Amber29]

Hi - I was first swayed toward innocence due to the pro-Avery bias in MaM1. Over time and after MaM1, I read everything about the case I could and to be honest ... forgot about it for awhile until I saw MaM2. But I had already changed my mind given the evidence that convicted Avery and the massive conspiracy that would have been necessary to frame Avery. Also, I tend to believe some of BD's confessions and I certainly believe what he told his mother. In combination with the evidence, Avery's background and treatment of women certainly pushed me over the edge. I also believe the stories of Avery with underage girls. I think he spent 18 years locked away due to a false ID by a woman and thinks women owe him something.

And for the record, I don't like Kratz at all. I don't think there's any such thing as a perfect police investigation and this one was not. However, I believe the local/state authorities did enough right to warrant the conviction of both.

Thanks! I appreciate the reply. Honestly I too could’ve been convinced of a possible wrongful conviction had I only watched the very one sided documentary. IMO there is just too many individual pieces of evidence that are attempted to be explained away. Tbh that can be done in any case when in actuality it’s the totality of the evidence that convinces me of guilt. Of course I haven’t watched MaM2 yet and didn’t really want to but I guess I will just to see what has changed.

 

[Karinna]

Zellner would never use that in court as he didn't report it to police and IMO, the State would rip him apart on all of his past criminal charges. In fact, I'd be willing to bet Zellner drops the whole Old Dam sighting stuff if she gets an evidentiary hearing. Zellner also tweeted that she has 3 witnesses. Who is the 3rd ?

BBM,You will probably have to wait for her next court filing to COA next month to find out, because she hasn't stated that yet. Or who owned the battery in the RAV.

 

[missy1974]

Zellner would never use that in court as he didn't report it to police and IMO, the State would rip him apart on all of his past criminal charges. In fact, I'd be willing to bet Zellner drops the whole Old Dam sighting stuff if she gets an evidentiary hearing. Zellner also tweeted that she has 3 witnesses. Who is the 3rd ?

The affidavit is already filed with the courts, so that opens the door to him being called as a witness IMO As for who the 3rd is, no clue.

 

[proudfootz]

You are so wrong about Expert testimony. Expert witnesses aren't paid to deliver the answer someone else wants. That is called corruption. Most experts in their fields are ethical professionals with integrity. It is absurd to think that these people are just putting their names on whatever Zellner wants them to say.

You do realize you are attacking the professional integrity of each of Zellners experts?

It's a vast conspiracy to free Steven and Brendan, don't you know? /s