Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Sustained]

(quote)
“Do we know if Bobby or ST ever interacted with TH prior to 10/31? Meaning is it possible that Bobby had his eye on her for a while before she was killed?” asked one user, to which Zellner responded, “Yes.”
And also according to KZ 3 witnesses saw the RAV up to the 11/04/o5, and then it was gone.
And
TH's RAV was spotted leaving the ASY with an unknown driver at 3:45pm.
'Making a Murderer' Attorney Kathleen Zellner Shares New Info

BBM - 3 witnesses saw a vehicle that they thought was the Rav4 but none of them got the license plate # to prove it and there is no report of the vehicle being the Rav4. Just a question ... how many times do you think an officer from the Mishicot Police Station drove by the Old Dam on 147 between 10/31 and 11/4 since the Old Dam is about a half mile from the police station ?

 

[Karinna]

BBM - 3 witnesses saw a vehicle that they thought was the Rav4 but none of them got the license plate # to prove it and there is no report of the vehicle being the Rav4. Just a question ... how many times do you think an officer from the Mishicot Police Station drove by the Old Dam on 147 between 10/31 and 11/4 since the Old Dam is about a half mile from the police station ?

Teresa Halbach wasn't reported missing until the 3rd of Nov.2005
Her vehicle was spotted before then and then it was gone by the 4th. Nov. 2005, as i posted the info. in my link earlier.
So why would LE be noticing her RAV if she wasn't missing at that stage?

 

[Sustained]

Teresa Halbach wasn't reported missing until the 3rd of Nov.2005
Her vehicle was spotted before then and then it was gone by the 4th. Nov. 2005, as i posted the info. in my link earlier.

BBM - correction - a vehicle was spotted - no confirmation it was TH's

 

[Karinna]

BBM - correction - a vehicle was spotted - no confirmation it was TH's

BBM,So what are the odds it wasn't hers? How many other vehicles exactly like hers were in the area? And strange that KH reported her daughter missing on the 3rd. Nov. and by the 4th. Nov. the vehicle is gone.

 

[Sustained]

BBM,So what are the odds it wasn't hers? How many other vehicles exactly like hers were in the area? And strange that KH reported her daughter missing on the 3rd. Nov. and by the 4th. Nov. the vehicle is gone.

Cars break down all the time and I'm sure there are plenty of small green SUVs in Manitowoc and surrounding counties. When I was younger, I had numerous cars break down, left them overnight, and picked them up the next day or 2 days later. And I really don't think the Department of Motor Vehicles would give me the number of small green SUVs around at the time.

I did read somewhere that the car was found not to be TH's, but I haven't been able to find the link.

So if the car was TH's, where was it between 10/31 and 11/3 ? Speculation allowed here ...

 

[missy1974]

There was a call in the dispatch calls that was about a truck with windows shot out or something parked there. I think it was a different spot though.

I don't know if I believe it was her vehicle or not, but if it was, no one was looking for it until later on the 3rd, and if it was gone on the 4th, that is a small window. Not like they were looking for it on the 31st, or the 1st, or the 2nd, or for the better part of the day on the 3rd.

I live in the prairies in Canada... lots of open spaces... it is not unusual to see vehicles parked on turnouts on the highway, I can't say that I have ever considered writing down a plate number because it's really not that out of the ordinary. IIRC, it wasn't on the news until 10pm on the 3rd, and missing posters didn't go up until the afternoon of the 4th. If there was a vehicle even remotely close in appearance to TH's before then, no one would have been alerted to it and think it was 'out of the ordinary'.

Like I said, I'm not sure that I believe that it was her vehicle, but it does show that LE had one goal in mind and anything outside of their theory wasn't reported on, and that is what KZ is trying to show IMO.

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
According to KZ's timeline TH arrives at ASY at around 2:30-2:31pm. on the 31st. Oct.
After completing her photo assignment TH leaves at around 2:38pm. and turns West on Hwy 147. She is followed by KZ's suspect. SA was in his trailer.
The suspect intercepts TH and gets her to pull over where she goes into the rear cargo area to get her camera, and is knocked to the ground and struck with an object.
TH then placed into rear cargo area and driven back to ASY.
TH's RAV is then seen with unknown driver leaving ASY at around 3:45pm.
Attorney points finger at Dassey brother, says Avery was framed

 

[Sustained]

There was a call in the dispatch calls that was about a truck with windows shot out or something parked there. I think it was a different spot though.

I don't know if I believe it was her vehicle or not, but if it was, no one was looking for it until later on the 3rd, and if it was gone on the 4th, that is a small window. Not like they were looking for it on the 31st, or the 1st, or the 2nd, or for the better part of the day on the 3rd.

I live in the prairies in Canada... lots of open spaces... it is not unusual to see vehicles parked on turnouts on the highway, I can't say that I have ever considered writing down a plate number because it's really not that out of the ordinary. IIRC, it wasn't on the news until 10pm on the 3rd, and missing posters didn't go up until the afternoon of the 4th. If there was a vehicle even remotely close in appearance to TH's before then, no one would have been alerted to it and think it was 'out of the ordinary'.

Like I said, I'm not sure that I believe that it was her vehicle, but it does show that LE had one goal in mind and anything outside of their theory wasn't reported on, and that is what KZ is trying to show IMO.

Lots of questions that will probably never be answered but IMO, the car was moved to it's spot in the ASY by SA on 10/31. But ...

1. If it was TH's car, where was it between 10/31 and 11/3 ?
2. Why would the killer move the car to a spot where it could easily be seen from a relatively busy road ?
3. Why would the killer wait to move the car on 11/4, knowing that on 11/3 had already been reported missing ?

 

[Sustained]

(quote)
According to KZ's timeline TH arrives at ASY at around 2:30-2:31pm. on the 31st. Oct.
After completing her photo assignment TH leaves at around 2:38pm. and turns West on Hwy 147. She is followed by KZ's suspect. SA was in his trailer.
The suspect intercepts TH and gets her to pull over where she goes into the rear cargo area to get her camera, and is knocked to the ground and struck with an object.
TH then placed into rear cargo area and driven back to ASY.
TH's RAV is then seen with unknown driver leaving ASY at around 3:45pm.
Attorney points finger at Dassey brother, says Avery was framed

None of that answers the question of where the Rav4 was from 10/31 to 11/3

Some more info ...

What Really Happened to Teresa Halbach?: An Audiovox Cell Phone Was Found Near the River in Mishicot, Close to Sightings of Teresa Halbach's RAV4 in a Turnaround on Highway 147

 

[Karinna]

Wonder if BoD perhaps organized a hustle shot with TH prior to the 31st. after the ASY photo assignment, and she was going to meet BoD at an area around Kuss Rd. and he would follow her for a hustle shot on a vehicle that was a lure by BoD to go out there?

 

[Karinna]

None of that answers the question of where the Rav4 was from 10/31 to 11/3

The Deer camp? Kuss Rd.? In MAM2 that is where KZ and her investigator were looking around the Kuss Rd. area, and KZ mentions about hiding a vehicle in there where it couldn't be seen from the road. That area IMO is of some significance.

 

[Karinna]

And what about the communication by BoD that KZ mentions in her Q&A that wasn't by phone? By PC perhaps?

 

[missy1974]

Lots of questions that will probably never be answered but IMO, the car was moved to it's spot in the ASY by SA on 10/31. But ...

1. If it was TH's car, where was it between 10/31 and 11/3 ?
2. Why would the killer move the car to a spot where it could easily be seen from a relatively busy road ?
3. Why would the killer wait to move the car on 11/4, knowing that on 11/3 had already been reported missing ?

1. I am not sure why you keep asking this? I think it's implied that it was sitting there those days. I don't know that anyone has said they saw the vehicle on the 4th and only the 4th? Maybe I missed that.

2. If it was TH's vehicle, I am not sure that it would have been moved there or if it was left there.

3. If it was the killer that moved it, the only reason I could think of is that it was now public and had hit the media. But again, I think that it's been implied that LE found the vehicle, and moved the vehicle.

In the link you posted in your next post, it shows someone else reported a vehicle matching the description and saw it on November 1st. It also shows photo's of the area, and it's not as open as I thought it was, although the tree's shouldn't have had as many leaves, and I think it would depend on which way you were driving and where it was parked if someone would notice it when driving by.

 

[missy1974]

And what about the communication by BoD that KZ mentions in her Q&A that wasn't by phone? By PC perhaps?

I remember at one time I could use my email to text, I can't recall when that was though, I know it was after 2001 but can't remember when.

 

[Sustained]

The Deer camp? Kuss Rd.? In MAM2 that is where KZ and her investigator were looking around the Kuss Rd. area, and KZ mentions about hiding a vehicle in there where it couldn't be seen from the road. That area IMO is of some significance.

If this was the case, why would the killer move the vehicle over by the dam ? There are too many "what ifs" in Zellner's scenario. She can't have it both ways ... car hidden on Kuss Road - car left by the dam visible to the public. She has affidavits that a vehicle similar to a Rav4 was seen by the dam. But then how does Bobby get SA's blood and move it to the vehicle on 11/3 ?

 

[missy1974]

If this was the case, why would the killer move the vehicle over by the dam ? There are too many "what ifs" in Zellner's scenario. She can't have it both ways ... car hidden on Kuss Road - car left by the dam visible to the public. She has affidavits that a vehicle similar to a Rav4 was seen by the dam. But then how does Bobby get SA's blood and move it to the vehicle on 11/3 ?

She can have it 10 different ways if she can show it was possible, it shows reasonable doubt and it shows that LE was focused on SA and only SA and didn't investigate anything else. There are different theories that KZ has put forward, neither have been proven or not, and she could come up with more... its seems that you are taking the different theories and mixing them to try to make them fit together. JMO

 

[Sustained]

She can have it 10 different ways if she can show it was possible, it shows reasonable doubt and it shows that LE was focused on SA and only SA and didn't investigate anything else. There are different theories that KZ has put forward, neither have been proven or not, and she could come up with more... its seems that you are taking the different theories and mixing them to try to make them fit together. JMO

BBM - no .. she can't. She could say anyone in Two Rivers with no alibi could be the killer. She could say RH was waiting for TH on 147 after she left the ASY, followed her, and killed her which is no different that her BoD fairytale. KZ has theories about BoD/ST but zero evidence to back them up. She has to disprove any & all of the current evidence against SA to even get an evidentiary hearing. There are no eyewitnesses to the crime other than SA/BD and no video.

 

[Karinna]

She can have it 10 different ways if she can show it was possible, it shows reasonable doubt and it shows that LE was focused on SA and only SA and didn't investigate anything else. There are different theories that KZ has put forward, neither have been proven or not, and she could come up with more... its seems that you are taking the different theories and mixing them to try to make them fit together. JMO

Exactly. From what KZ has stated herself she does not have to prove anything because that was LE's job. But i think also from what she said she likes to deconstruct the whole crime and come up with how it possibly all happened. It is still a work in progress and her investigators are still investigating.
All KZ needs to do is the legal aspects like proving Brady/Denny, and new evidence etc. for the PC phase.

 

[Sustained]

Exactly. From what KZ has stated herself she does not have to prove anything because that was LE's job. But i think also from what she said she likes to deconstruct the whole crime and come up with how it possibly all happened. It is still a work in progress and her investigators are still investigating.
All KZ needs to do is the legal aspects like proving Brady/Denny, and new evidence etc. for the PC phase.

BBM - she also needs to unravel and disprove every piece of evidence that got SA convicted in the first place.

 

[Karinna]

BBM - she also needs to unravel and disprove every piece of evidence that got SA convicted in the first place.

KZ would only have to prove that if it goes to a new trial, because all that kind of evidence gets hashed out at trial.