Still Asking Questions Here

[Ravyn]

Tell me when the pineapple was brought up to the Ramsey's... Also the lawyers would tell their client to lied cause if they was being railroaded being honest would be the way to go..

 

[BBB167893]

Hi Ravyn,

That's what I've been wondering about lately within the IDI scenario ..... all the expectations and critiques of the Rs behaviour. I mean if they were advised by their lawyers to evade certain answers or to misdirect, why wouldn't they? Even if they had fed JBR the pineapple why wouldn't they have lied for their own self preservation, given that they claimed to have believed that the investigation was tring to railroad them?

Because Tadpole, one of the key rules of life is that when you're in a hole, you don't dig deeper. And what you suggest would be like using a steam shovel.

From what I've read. it's difficult to point to an outright lie by the Ramseys.

Even if that's so, you have to take into account the total number of inconsistencies.

 

[Ravyn]

Can someone answer this question for me.. Was MR handprint the only prints on the WC door...

 

[MsBashterd]

I know how they lied about eating pineapple and her being awake just don't make much sense at all, and really I often thought if they was innocence their lawyers would be right there to say let's prove your innocence but instead they made sure the R's didn't talk and help them arranged the interviews so in a way this could lead one to believe in their guilt..

Absolutely you read my mind there.

Why not just say that we got home and JB had some pineapple and then I put her to bed and then someone took her after that. The story the way they tell down to denying that the bowl is even hers (though her fingerprints are on it) it such an obvious lie. Then it leads my thinking down the path if a simple lie is so easy and expected to be believed then a larger and deadly lie could be handled just as easily. I wonder if this is the ole saying of Baffle them with BS so that the truth is lost in their somewhere. This thought keeps coming back more and more for me. All of it was nothing more that a smoke screen of chaos and insanity and the truth was so lost behind the web of BS that was being spun.

 

[Ravyn]

In my own opinion the R's hurt themselves when they changed everything they said on the morning of the 26th..And I read that JR said he was approached by an attorney two days after finding JB well either this happen on the 25th cause Det.Arndt was told on the 27th that the R's attained attorneys or this is a lie from the R's..Now people can say they was confused on the 26th but think about how they repeated the story that morning.. What I read it stayed the same the whole morning when questioned ...

 

[DeeDee249]

The Rs weren't "approached" by an attorney. JR CALLED his friend, attorney Mike Bynum. He called him as a friend, according to Bynum himself, who then advised JR to get legal representation because LE was going to be "looking at the parents".
Exactly when this happened is unclear. Many people (myself included) think JR called Mike Bynum not long after it happened, during the early am of the 26th, probably between 1am and the 911 call. This is more likely to have happened because of the mysterious "loss" of phone records for December 1996.
The Rs may or may not have had help with the decision to "make it look like an intruder tried to kidnap her and then kill her because you called police".

From my own personal experience many years ago, I lived in an apartment house where where an armed intruder was shot and killed on the fire escape of a neighbor's apartment. When LE was called, the homeowner was told to bring the body inside so it would appear he was already in the home when he was shot. They were told to do this BEFORE police arrived.

 

[JMO8778]

Can someone answer this question for me.. Was MR handprint the only prints on the WC door...

as far as I've seen,yes.

 

[Ravyn]

Strange I guess when whoever wipe down the door forgot a spot,so this can show some of the mind set of the R's covering every trace of evidence..And a couple more questions about the walk in frig does anyone knows what it look like and where was it located in the house...

 

[Maikai]

One of my biggest is why lie about whether she was awake or asleep if she ate the pineapple or not, why was that such an important point in MO of the Ramsey's lie. So she was awake and ate pineapple and then Patsy put her to bed. To me that is one of the biggest + side's to the RDI theory.


Help I think I can't see the forest for the trees you know what I mean.:bang:

They did not lie about the pineapple. Most likely it was eaten earlier in the day, before they went to the White's. Burke could have taken it out--JBR could have grabbed a piece or two. It was not eaten shortly before her death---it would have still been in her stomach---not the duodenum, or the beginning of the small intestine. The pineapple is a non-issue, and does not shed any light on the events of the night, except the location of it shows it was eaten earlier..NOT right before she was murdered.

Burke was interviewed extensively, and we don't know what he told authorities what if anything he knew about the pineapple. The pineapple is a deadend, and has been debated to death. There would be no reason for the Ramseys to lie about JBR having eaten pineapple if she had been awake before she went to bed.

 

[BBB167893]

They did not lie about the pineapple. Most likely it was eaten earlier in the day, before they went to the White's. Burke could have taken it out--JBR could have grabbed a piece or two. It was not eaten shortly before her death---it would have still been in her stomach---not the duodenum, or the beginning of the small intestine. The pineapple is a non-issue, and does not shed any light on the events of the night, except the location of it shows it was eaten earlier..NOT right before she was murdered.

Which means it was eaten 2-3 hours before her death. Sometime between when they got home and when it happened. The pineapple is CRUCIAL, because it destroys the Rs' version of what happened when they got home.

There would be no reason for the Ramseys to lie about JBR having eaten pineapple if she had been awake before she went to bed.

Exactly. So why did they? It all comes tumbling down like a deck of cards.

 

[DeeDee249]

They did not lie about the pineapple. Most likely it was eaten earlier in the day, before they went to the White's. Burke could have taken it out--JBR could have grabbed a piece or two. It was not eaten shortly before her death---it would have still been in her stomach---not the duodenum, or the beginning of the small intestine. The pineapple is a non-issue, and does not shed any light on the events of the night, except the location of it shows it was eaten earlier..NOT right before she was murdered.

Burke was interviewed extensively, and we don't know what he told authorities what if anything he knew about the pineapple. The pineapple is a deadend, and has been debated to death. There would be no reason for the Ramseys to lie about JBR having eaten pineapple if she had been awake before she went to bed.

The pineapple was eaten approx. 2 hours before death, NOT earlier in the day. That's not RDI. That is forensics. The FACT that pineapple was still in the small intestine and was still identifiable as pineapple proves this. This does not rule out that she COULD have eaten some earlier in the day as well, but if she did, it would have already moved from the small intestine trough the digestive tract. The pineapple that was FOUND at autopsy and identified was consumed after they got home from the White's.
Foods do not "leap frog" over each other in the digestive tract. Easier to digest foods simply digest faster, but not after foods eaten later. The soft green fecal material found at autopsy represented food eaten earlier in the day. Breakfast may or may not have been excreted, the food eaten at the White's would have been the soft green fecal material by that time.
Digestion is a metabolic process and all metabolism stops at death. That is why stomach contents and other contents of the digestive tract can help establish when death occurred with respect to foods eaten.

 

[Ravyn]

The pineapple is a issue cause to me it almost tells us when JB died..And I goggle to find all that DeeDee said,well I thought I would spare DeeDee with all the questions I had about the pineapple..

 

[Maikai]

The pineapple was eaten approx. 2 hours before death, NOT earlier in the day. That's not RDI. That is forensics. The FACT that pineapple was still in the small intestine and was still identifiable as pineapple proves this. This does not rule out that she COULD have eaten some earlier in the day as well, but if she did, it would have already moved from the small intestine trough the digestive tract. The pineapple that was FOUND at autopsy and identified was consumed after they got home from the White's.
Foods do not "leap frog" over each other in the digestive tract. Easier to digest foods simply digest faster, but not after foods eaten later. The soft green fecal material found at autopsy represented food eaten earlier in the day. Breakfast may or may not have been excreted, the food eaten at the White's would have been the soft green fecal material by that time.
Digestion is a metabolic process and all metabolism stops at death. That is why stomach contents and other contents of the digestive tract can help establish when death occurred with respect to foods eaten.

That's not true at all. The fiber is all that was left of the pineapple. It can take 24 hours for food to move through the digestive tract. Food in the stomach would be relevant---further down the tract--not relevant as to determining when it was eaten. The rate of digestion depends on what is eaten together as to when it is emptied from the stomach.

The stomach was clear--no food in it. I was at a lecture by Michael Baden where he showed slides of Nicole's stomach. Leafy green stuff which she had at the restaurant, and was still in her stomach. Based on that, they could estimate time of death. He said only stomach contents are relevant, and then the degree of digestion based on food type.

The White's have not spoken publically. They could have had a fruit salad or pineapple at the Christmas meal.

 

[Ravyn]

But I read where the White's told the LE they didn't have pineapple

 

[Maikai]

Which means it was eaten 2-3 hours before her death. Sometime between when they got home and when it happened. The pineapple is CRUCIAL, because it destroys the Rs' version of what happened when they got home. Exactly. So why did they? It all comes tumbling down like a deck of cards.

It doesn't mean that at all.....it could take 2 to 3 hours just to leave the stomach depending what was eaten with it. Further down in the small intestine, it could have been many hours. All that was left of it was the fiber that would not be digested and would keep travelling down the digestive tract.

 

[BBB167893]

It doesn't mean that at all.....it could take 2 to 3 hours just to leave the stomach depending what was eaten with it. Further down in the small intestine, it could have been many hours. All that was left of it was the fiber that would not be digested and would keep travelling down the digestive tract.

That ain't the way I heard it, pilgrim.

 

[Ravyn]

But one thing JB stomach was empty..I read the autopsy report and found that out..And the time I spent on reading on the digestive tract. I know this is important to the case..Now in my opinion if the R's just said yes we gave JB pineapple then it wouldn't be so darn important..

 

[JMO8778]

Thomas said the pineapple found in JB matched what was in the bowl found on the R's table,right down to the rind.And he was not ever asked to retract that statement..because it was true.
Now you can try to argue the merits of retracting statements if you want,but the fact remains,what was in the bowl matched what was found in JB's digestive tract right down to the rind.

 

[Maikai]

That ain't the way I heard it, pilgrim.

It depends who you're listening to. SpinMaster Thomas, or a respected forensic pathologist. I have doubts it was even proven conclusively that it was pineapple. During the autopsy when it was called out, as some kind of fiber, Linda Arndt asked if it could be pineapple, and Meyer supposedly responded it could be. LA noticed the pineapple on the coutertop.

 

[Maikai]

Thomas said the pineapple found in JB matched what was in the bowl found on the R's table,right down to the rind.And he was not ever asked to retract that statement..because it was true.
Now you can try to argue the merits of retracting statements if you want,but the fact remains,what was in the bowl matched what was found in JB's digestive tract right down to the rind.

Thomas never furnished proof of that statement. He probably wasn't asked to retract it, because it's not relevant. Thomas was trying to put together a circumstantial case, and that was just another example of his spin.