Still Asking Questions Here

[Ravyn]

I'm just wondering cause maybe she had them on and chaged into the longjohns afterwards...

 

[Ames]

I don't think they were missing, but I am not sure when or IF they were taken into evidence. Anyone out there know?

Heck, they probably turned those over when they turned their own clothes over...a year later...minus Patsy fur boots that she had worn to the White's party, because she had "misplaced" them. (Nevermind the fact that the boots were thought to be made of beaver fur, and a beaver hair was found on or around JB's body).

 

[Ames]

PR put the longjohns on an awake JB.

I am having doubts that Patsy put long johns on a live JB at ALL, since JB was found wearing the long johns, and they had post mortem urine on them. I believe in the bed wetting theory. So, IF Patsy in fact put those long johns on JB, then JB wet the bed..and Patsy went off the deep end, and then she changed JB's underwear, and then she would have put those wet longjohns back onto JB's dead body. UNLESS...she wasn't wearing the long johns when she wet the bed, or she had two pair.

 

[Ravyn]

The only reason I asked about the black pants cause when someone dies the can release all body funtions so I wonder if this is what happen about the lonjohns she had on. Just wondering...

 

[DeeDee249]

I am having doubts that Patsy put long johns on a live JB at ALL, since JB was found wearing the long johns, and they had post mortem urine on them. I believe in the bed wetting theory. So, IF Patsy in fact put those long johns on JB, then JB wet the bed..and Patsy went off the deep end, and then she changed JB's underwear, and then she would have put those wet longjohns back onto JB's dead body. UNLESS...she wasn't wearing the long johns when she wet the bed, or she had two pair.

Postmortem urine release happens immediately after death- primary flaccidity relaxes ALL muscles. The bladder will always release urine. Healthy kidneys are always functioning, so the bladder always contains at least some urine. The sphincter muscle also relaxes, but feces will not always be released. It depends where the last food eaten was in the digestion process, and where the feces was in digestive system. The pineapple had not progressed that far along- some of it was still identifiable as pineapple. That's how we know it was the last thing eaten. Foods do not "leap frog" over each other in the digestive process. Foods that are easy to digest are processed faster, not out of eating order.
Soft, green fecal material was noted in JB's autopsy in an area where it would not have been quite at the point of excretion. So there was no fecal matter on the body or clothes.
JB'e urine stains were anterior (on the front of her long johns and panties). It would require laying on her stomach when it was released. This COULD have happened while she was alive 2 ways. If she had indeed gone to bed and asleep, she could have wet the bed. The urine could have been dried by the time she was redressed. We do know the urine was dried by the time she was found. While there was creatine (from dried urine) found on her sheets, that can't be dated so we can't tell when it was left. The other way it could have happened is if it was released as an extreme fear reaction as she was being strangled. I don't believe this was the case, as I believe she was unconscious when she was strangled.

 

[DeeDee249]

The only reason I asked about the black pants cause when someone dies the can release all body funtions so I wonder if this is what happen about the lonjohns she had on. Just wondering...

I don't know about the Rs sending along JBR's clothing from Christmas Day. That was around a year later- would they have kept JB's clothing so long after her death, especially when they were still suspects. I don't think they would. Maybe some of her pageant and special things, but my guess is they got rid of as much as they could from that day/night.

 

[Ames]

Postmortem urine release happens immediately after death- primary flaccidity relaxes ALL muscles. The bladder will always release urine. Healthy kidneys are always functioning, so the bladder always contains at least some urine. The sphincter muscle also relaxes, but feces will not always be released. It depends where the last food eaten was in the digestion process, and where the feces was in digestive system. The pineapple had not progressed that far along- some of it was still identifiable as pineapple. That's how we know it was the last thing eaten. Foods do not "leap frog" over each other in the digestive process. Foods that are easy to digest are processed faster, not out of eating order.
Soft, green fecal material was noted in JB's autopsy in an area where it would not have been quite at the point of excretion. So there was no fecal matter on the body or clothes.
JB'e urine stains were anterior (on the front of her long johns and panties). It would require laying on her stomach when it was released. This COULD have happened while she was alive 2 ways. If she had indeed gone to bed and asleep, she could have wet the bed. The urine could have been dried by the time she was redressed. We do know the urine was dried by the time she was found. While there was creatine (from dried urine) found on her sheets, that can't be dated so we can't tell when it was left. The other way it could have happened is if it was released as an extreme fear reaction as she was being strangled. I don't believe this was the case, as I believe she was unconscious when she was strangled.

I wondered about this, because it is possible that she WAS lying on her stomach, in the bed...sleeping. I also wondered how they can tell if it was post mortem urine...or if it happened BEFORE she died.

 

[GingBreade]

Ok dumb question here - what did happen to everything in that house? I thought the R's never went back there. I'm curious as to what happened to all the furniture, beds, clothing, paintings etc?

 

[Ravyn]

Now I believe that the R's had the furniture, beds and stuff ship to the after the LE was done with it now but I might be wromg here..

 

[Ames]

Ok dumb question here - what did happen to everything in that house? I thought the R's never went back there. I'm curious as to what happened to all the furniture, beds, clothing, paintings etc?

That is a darn good question, I have wondered that myself. I know that the rest of JB's size 12 panties, were found...still in the package...inside a moving crate...apparently after the Rams moved. So, I am wondering if maybe they hired someone to pack their things up, or maybe got family members to do it for them. I don't know for sure...but, I believe that all of those things that you mentioned, were sent to the Rams new home. Now, I have no clue about JB's beds that were in her room, or the rest of her furniture and clothes. Sort of off topic...but, I posted a link to E-bay a long time ago...where someone was trying to sell JB's swingset. There was a picture of it, by itself....and in the Rams back yard..to show that it was the same swingset. So, apparently some things were sold.

 

[Ames]

Now I believe that the R's had the furniture, beds and stuff ship to the after the LE was done with it now but I might be wromg here..

I believe that you are correct about that.

 

[DeeDee249]

Shortly after the Rs left, when the crime scene was released by LE, professional movers packed up the Rs furniture and personal belongings, eventually shipped to the Rs when they resettled in Atlanta.
Then the house was "sold" to a group of R friends and lawyers. While in their hands, the house was "cleaned"- rugs pulled up, and all the rooms pained white (PR was a big fan of wallpaper). Had anyone wanted to go back in for a closer look at the carpets, walls, etc. it would have been pointless.
After that, the house was sold a few more times, having been listed again within the past year. The latest remodeling/decorating was a big improvement, and the house looked very nice in the real estate photos.
Obviously the swing set stayed behind at the house. One of the subsequent owners sold it. I would have thought the sellers might want to keep the history of the swing set secret, after all the house address was changed at some point to discourage curiosity.

 

[Ravyn]

If the carpets was replaced this could mean there was blood or and lest some evidence of something cause the R's covered all tracks...

 

[DeeDee249]

If the carpets was replaced this could mean there was blood or and lest some evidence of something cause the R's covered all tracks...

We'll never know what those carpets would have revealed or where. Urine, blood, fiber evidence. Where it was found would be very important to the case. The Rs were allowed to leave an active crime scene without being searched and without leaving behind the clothes they were wearing. No other people in that same situation would have gotten away with that.
Ripping up all the carpet ensured that virtually no evidence was left behind.

 

[Ames]

Shortly after the Rs left, when the crime scene was released by LE, professional movers packed up the Rs furniture and personal belongings, eventually shipped to the Rs when they resettled in Atlanta.
Then the house was "sold" to a group of R friends and lawyers. While in their hands, the house was "cleaned"- rugs pulled up, and all the rooms pained white (PR was a big fan of wallpaper). Had anyone wanted to go back in for a closer look at the carpets, walls, etc. it would have been pointless.
After that, the house was sold a few more times, having been listed again within the past year. The latest remodeling/decorating was a big improvement, and the house looked very nice in the real estate photos.
Obviously the swing set stayed behind at the house. One of the subsequent owners sold it. I would have thought the sellers might want to keep the history of the swing set secret, after all the house address was changed at some point to discourage curiosity.

My guess is since the person that had the swing set last, put it up on EBAY to sell it....that he or she WANTED people to know that it had previously belonged to JB, thinking that somebody out there would pay big bucks for it, just for that reason. There are some weirdos out there you know...I bet that someone like JMK would pay thousands for it.

 

[Ames]

We'll never know what those carpets would have revealed or where. Urine, blood, fiber evidence. Where it was found would be very important to the case. The Rs were allowed to leave an active crime scene without being searched and without leaving behind the clothes they were wearing. No other people in that same situation would have gotten away with that.
Ripping up all the carpet ensured that virtually no evidence was left behind.

Yep...and isn't it "ironic" that a group of the Ramsey's friends...were the ones that had this done...along with removing the wallpaper and painting the walls ?

 

[DeeDee249]

Yep...and isn't it "ironic" that a group of the Ramsey's friends...were the ones that had this done...along with removing the wallpaper and painting the walls ?

Not only ironic...also pretty transparent. You know what is ironic? That they either thought no on would think it suspicious that the house had been "whitewashed", or they didn't care. I bet on the latter.

 

[Ravyn]

Do you think that these people might had missed something, I know all the carpets are gone..

 

[DeeDee249]

Do you think that these people might had missed something, I know all the carpets are gone..

Way to late for that. The house has changed hands several times since the Rs lived there. And the carpets would really have been the best place to collect any evidence. Fibers, urine, blood, etc. While there was an outside chance that fluids like urine, blood could have seeped down to the floor beneath, re-sanding and refinishing was surely done on wood floors, and in places where carpet was replaced, new padding would be put under it. There's no hope at this point. Even the wineceller was walled off. And I am sure it was cleaned out. At least I think a new homeowner would do that- it was filthy. But I am sure the first group that bought it from the Rs would have completely cleaned up the wineceller.

 

[Ames]

Not only ironic...also pretty transparent. You know what is ironic? That they either thought no on would think it suspicious that the house had been "whitewashed", or they didn't care. I bet on the latter.

Heck...the Rams probably asked them to do it.