Stranger Abduction Theories #2

[Beatrice]

We talked about that alot in early days. There are several CSI fans here, but except for one episode in which a sibling from a dysfunctional family picked up a child from school and murdered her, there aren't episodes I can recall that are identical to this one. I'd say in the vast majority of CSI episodes, the perpetrator is known to the vidtim.

Does this episode match the facts of Kyron's case?

And, for those that know the plot of "Monster in the Box"...
Does this episode match what we know so far?

 

[Billylee]

I think the only significance of Kyron wearing a CSI T-shirt that day, could possibly be that firstly, if a stranger took him, it gives that stranger something to talk to him about. "Hey, you like CSI?, me too! There's a cool electrical project over here that shows what they do on CSI, want me to show you where it is?" Whatever, the "groomer" could have said the same type of thing no matter what type of t-shirt Kyron had on, coulda' been Star-wars or Sponge Bob.

The only other significance could be if someone made arrangements to have him abducted, they could tell the abductor that he would be wearing a black CSI shirt. Problem I see with that is how would the person setting up the abduction know that some other kid wouldn't be wearing the same shirt that day.

Anyhoo, I don't think that CSI is significant to this case at all, other than if Kyron is deceased, I hope someone finds it and the perps dna is all over it!

Other than that, I think the CSI shirt is of no signifcance at all.

 

[carbuff]

I agree, Billylee -- I don't think the shirt itself has any significance.

 

[cluciano63]

I've been thinking in the past few days that it is possible to me that a stranger took Kyron. It is possible that Terri's weird behavior from the beginning was due to guilt at her feelings toward Kyron and Kaine, guilt from affairs, guilt from telling people she would prefer Kaine was dead than divorce him, guilt from possibly even trying to find someone to make that happen and fear from knowing that all of these facts were going to come out sooner or later. Even the way she acted in that initial video could be from all of those things.

I can imagine Terri, self-absorbed and impatient, leaving Kyron without a second glance that morning, maybe the baby was fussy and she had a hot meet-up at the gym that morning; she knew that if she brought the baby home for a nap, she might not get to go meet her date. So she raced around town trying to find the one thing she knew might settle the baby, and drove to pass the time until her date. All of that could be true.

I'm just not 100% convinced that Terri is guilty of taking and likely murdering Kyron. The more I think of her killing him or having him killed, the more ludicrous it sounds. It may well be what happened but it doesn't make sense to me. I hope LE really is considering predators and not just trying to find things to prove that TH did this. Having no evidence against anyone else is not the same as having evidence against Terri, which if they had, I think she would be charged with some crime by now.

On another note, I am watching the Etan Patz case, from 1979, who also disappeared as his mom wathed him walk, in his case to the bus stop. The parents later had him delcared dead so that they could file a civil case for wrongful death against the only possible suspect. I guess this is something D&K could try to do at some point, if Th is never charged and their belief never changes.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I've been thinking in the past few days that it is possible to me that a stranger took Kyron. It is possible that Terri's weird behavior from the beginning was due to guilt at her feelings toward Kyron and Kaine, guilt from affairs, guilt from telling people she would prefer Kaine was dead than divorce him, guilt from possibly even trying to find someone to make that happen and fear from knowing that all of these facts were going to come out sooner or later. Even the way she acted in that initial video could be from all of those things.

I can imagine Terri, self-absorbed and impatient, leaving Kyron without a second glance that morning, maybe the baby was fussy and she had a hot meet-up at the gym that morning; she knew that if she brought the baby home for a nap, she might not get to go meet her date. So she raced around town trying to find the one thing she knew might settle the baby, and drove to pass the time until her date. All of that could be true.

I'm just not 100% convinced that Terri is guilty of taking and likely murdering Kyron. The more I think of her killing him or having him killed, the more ludicrous it sounds. It may well be what happened but it doesn't make sense to me. I hope LE really is considering predators and not just trying to find things to prove that TH did this. Having no evidence against anyone else is not the same as having evidence against Terri, which if they had, I think she would be charged with some crime by now.

On another note, I am watching the Etan Patz case, from 1979, who also disappeared as his mom wathed him walk, in his case to the bus stop. The parents later had him delcared dead so that they could file a civil case for wrongful death against the only possible suspect. I guess this is something D&K could try to do at some point, if Th is never charged and their belief never changes.

I am also becoming more open to the idea that Kyron was kidnapped by a stranger. It seems like the only evidence we have is about Terri's background and character but there is no evidence that actually links her to Kyron's abduction. Okay, she was sexting, had an alcohol problem, etc but we don't have DNA, fingerprints, etc that I can say makes me believe that Terri was 100% involved. If her background showed that she had a history of abusing children, or had been in jail for a crime against a child, then I would be more likely to put more weight on her background. Unfortunately, I think that whether Terri or a stranger abducted Kyron, he's most likely been dead since June. It's been 8 months; will there even be enough evidence on Kyron to point to someone if they find him?

 

[cluciano63]

It is doubtful whether any evidence would survive if Kyron is found. LE may have to count on the location telling them something, more than actual physical forensics. For instance if he is found someplace where TH's phone did not ping, it would be more difficult to link her to the crime. I think they must have as complete a set of ping info as they will ever get by now. This last search may have been from a ping, plus the possible witness who believes he saw a white truck stop at the gate. But if Kyron isn't found there, who knows where they go from here.

 

[Billylee]

I've been thinking in the past few days that it is possible to me that a stranger took Kyron. It is possible that Terri's weird behavior from the beginning was due to guilt at her feelings toward Kyron and Kaine, guilt from affairs, guilt from telling people she would prefer Kaine was dead than divorce him, guilt from possibly even trying to find someone to make that happen and fear from knowing that all of these facts were going to come out sooner or later. Even the way she acted in that initial video could be from all of those things.

I can imagine Terri, self-absorbed and impatient, leaving Kyron without a second glance that morning, maybe the baby was fussy and she had a hot meet-up at the gym that morning; she knew that if she brought the baby home for a nap, she might not get to go meet her date. So she raced around town trying to find the one thing she knew might settle the baby, and drove to pass the time until her date. All of that could be true.

I'm just not 100% convinced that Terri is guilty of taking and likely murdering Kyron. The more I think of her killing him or having him killed, the more ludicrous it sounds. It may well be what happened but it doesn't make sense to me. I hope LE really is considering predators and not just trying to find things to prove that TH did this. Having no evidence against anyone else is not the same as having evidence against Terri, which if they had, I think she would be charged with some crime by now.

On another note, I am watching the Etan Patz case, from 1979, who also disappeared as his mom wathed him walk, in his case to the bus stop. The parents later had him delcared dead so that they could file a civil case for wrongful death against the only possible suspect. I guess this is something D&K could try to do at some point, if Th is never charged and their belief never changes.

Excellent post, Cluciano. I still do not know whether Terri had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance. I have wondered if her "guiltiness" was because she may have left Kyron earlier than she told everyone she did. Perhaps she left him at 8:20 or so and left him on his own (thinking he'd be okay, being at the school), but after everything unfolded, realized that maybe that was a dumb move and did not want to tell anyone she'd done that. OTH, Terri, IMO could still be guilty. I just don't know. LE has not given any of us enough information to form solid opinions and, in fact, most of the information we have has come from sources unknown, or sources that might also be at some sort of fault or perhaps have another agenda. I think all your points are very good ones.

What I find interesting now that I'm looking at other cases (because Kyron's is the first active missing person's case I've delved into) is, how differently this case seems to be being handled., for instance: searches were called off within days, family and public were encouraged NOT to help search, and to the best of my knowledge, to this day, no one in the family has ever gone out on the search, media were put on a "team" agenda or some such and if they didn't comply, they were out of the loop.

I look around at the other current missing kids situatons and it is all being handled so differently. There is something very strange about Kyron's case, and from the get-go we were all saying there's some kind of elephant in the room, I'm thinking, we still don't know who or what that elephant is.

All this time and no Kyron. Perhaps it's time to change the agenda. Perhaps the family should go out and search. Perhaps the elephant in the room should be set free. IDK, it's just so sad, all THIS.....and still no Kyron.

 

[mmmagique]

Excellent post, Cluciano. I still do not know whether Terri had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance. I have wondered if her "guiltiness" was because she may have left Kyron earlier than she told everyone she did. Perhaps she left him at 8:20 or so and left him on his own (thinking he'd be okay, being at the school), but after everything unfolded, realized that maybe that was a dumb move and did not want to tell anyone she'd done that. OTH, Terri, IMO could still be guilty. I just don't know. LE has not given any of us enough information to form solid opinions and, in fact, most of the information we have has come from sources unknown, or sources that might also be at some sort of fault or perhaps have another agenda. I think all your points are very good ones.

What I find interesting now that I'm looking at other cases (because Kyron's is the first active missing person's case I've delved into) is, how differently this case seems to be being handled., for instance: searches were called off within days, family and public were encouraged NOT to help search, and to the best of my knowledge, to this day, no one in the family has ever gone out on the search, media were put on a "team" agenda or some such and if they didn't comply, they were out of the loop.

I look around at the other current missing kids situatons and it is all being handled so differently. There is something very strange about Kyron's case, and from the get-go we were all saying there's some kind of elephant in the room, I'm thinking, we still don't know who or what that elephant is.

All this time and no Kyron. Perhaps it's time to change the agenda. Perhaps the family should go out and search. Perhaps the elephant in the room should be set free. IDK, it's just so sad, all THIS.....and still no Kyron.

I could very well be mistaken, but I was under the impression that generally family is highly encouraged NOT to search. For several reasons. Take a look at Jon Benet Ramsey's case and the mess letting the father (and a suspect) find the victim caused.

 

[carbuff]

I could very well be mistaken, but I was under the impression that generally family is highly encouraged NOT to search. For several reasons. Take a look at Jon Benet Ramsey's case and the mess letting the father (and a suspect) find the victim caused.

Yes, keeping the family out of the search is pretty normal procedure these days.

 

[LMax]

former teacher
http://www.kptv.com/news/26895844/detail.html
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Multiple law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Marshals and Interpol, are on the hunt for a former Beaverton School District teacher who faces 30 counts of child charges. resigned his teaching position at Stoller Middle School in Northwest Portland.

 

[Billylee]

former teacher
http://www.kptv.com/news/26895844/detail.html
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Multiple law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Marshals and Interpol, are on the hunt for a former Beaverton School District teacher who faces 30 counts of child charges. resigned his teaching position at Stoller Middle School in Northwest Portland.

Wow, I wonder if this teacher would have been attending the science fair the morning of June 4? I wonder WHEN he resigned, the article doesn't say. A People Search on this guy, brings up nothing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I could very well be mistaken, but I was under the impression that generally family is highly encouraged NOT to search. For several reasons. Take a look at Jon Benet Ramsey's case and the mess letting the father (and a suspect) find the victim caused.

I believe you are correct.

In the Amber Dubois case, for example, the stepfather was a suspect from early on. He wanted to search but was taken aside by the search coordinator and told that since he was possibly a suspect, he definitely could not be placed in a position where he could find any evidence (for fear of evidence tampering).

Many SAR organisations have policies against participating in searches with family members present. Not because all family members are automatically suspects but because the SAR organisation doesn't feel capable of dealing with a possible discovery of human remains with a grieving family member as a witness.

When searching with dogs, for instance, there have been incidents in the past where family members were hurt and offended by how happy the dog was to find their deceased loved one (to the dog, of course, the body has no emotional significance) and the seemingly inappropriate behaviour of the dog handler (who is busily celebrating up a storm with the dog to reward the dog for making a find).

 

[LMax]

Wow, I wonder if this teacher would have been attending the science fair the morning of June 4? I wonder WHEN he resigned, the article doesn't say. A People Search on this guy, brings up nothing.

I wonder, but it does say the warrant for his arrest was in August.

 

[loves2bmom]

Wow, I wonder if this teacher would have been attending the science fair the morning of June 4? I wonder WHEN he resigned, the article doesn't say. A People Search on this guy, brings up nothing.

He's from Beaverton School District so it's unlikely he would be attending a Science Fair for Portland School District. JMO

 

[LMax]

About 11 miles away
http://www.kgw.com/news/Scappoose-student-approached-by-stranger-116485378.html
“We have a report from a Scappoose Police Department of a student being approached by a stranger on his way to school this morning at approximately 8:15 a.m. A white male in his 20's pulled up in a newer, mid size "shiny" blue pickup with a canopy and knobby tires, telling him to get in."

 

[pdx]

About 11 miles away
http://www.kgw.com/news/Scappoose-student-approached-by-stranger-116485378.html
“We have a report from a Scappoose Police Department of a student being approached by a stranger on his way to school this morning at approximately 8:15 a.m. A white male in his 20's pulled up in a newer, mid size "shiny" blue pickup with a canopy and knobby tires, telling him to get in."

"About 11 miles away"
AND on Hwy 30 AND adjacent to Sauvie Island.
A special 11 miles.

 

[PortlandMama]

"About 11 miles away"
AND on Hwy 30 AND adjacent to Sauvie Island.
A special 11 miles.

This school is grades 4-6, apparently, for those wondering about approximate age. Per Scappoose School District website.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

About 11 miles away
http://www.kgw.com/news/Scappoose-student-approached-by-stranger-116485378.html
“We have a report from a Scappoose Police Department of a student being approached by a stranger on his way to school this morning at approximately 8:15 a.m. A white male in his 20's pulled up in a newer, mid size "shiny" blue pickup with a canopy and knobby tires, telling him to get in."

May I please ask do they have a sketch of this guy yet?

 

[LMax]

I don't see any yet.

 

[DreamyEye]

About 11 miles away
http://www.kgw.com/news/Scappoose-student-approached-by-stranger-116485378.html
“We have a report from a Scappoose Police Department of a student being approached by a stranger on his way to school this morning at approximately 8:15 a.m. A white male in his 20's pulled up in a newer, mid size "shiny" blue pickup with a canopy and knobby tires, telling him to get in."

A suspicious person approaching a male child in Kyron's age range. I hope this is carefully checked out.