student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

I'm interested in who should be looking at themselves too?

Goz

Goz, I think it's us and anyone else that is so angry at these two students who made a little mistake that any person their age could have made on Facebook. Really it's horrible that for one mistake they can see jail time and have their college education disrupted. :doh:

Get yourself to a mirror Goz and ask yourself is it right to dare be so angry with two college kids who just made a little mistake?:rolleyes:

If it matters I looked at myself in the mirror and said "Filly, you got some nerve being angry. Sheesh they're just a couple of kids who felt like mortifying someone to the point they actually wrote the word "YAY" knowing in a few hours they'd exploit someone."

Man, if it matters? I made some truly awful mistakes in life. I purposely hurt someone point blank to the point they may have jumped off a bridge. That person was my da*n self. Always I've only hurt myself. Plus if I had knowledge that someone was going to do what those two did? No lie I'd wig out on them. I'd say "What the he*l is wrong with you that you would do that to someone? What is lacking in your life that you'd do that? Who or what hurt the both of you so strongly that you'd be this mean and cruel to hurt someone else? Please riddle me that one Bat Girl and Bat Man cause you have to have some "excuse".

Sorry for the rant. The people that need to look at themselves are those two. I so can not tolerate people that have no tolerance. Worse I can't even stand people that are ugly, mean, vile, and purposely hurtful towards others".
 
I saw part of the press conference held by Governor Christie yesterday. He has never been one of my favorite politicians however I found myself moved by his reaction. He seemed on the point of tears and also you could tell he fet real outrage at what happened. He is I think a former prosecutor and I would not want him coming after me which is what I think he is going to do with the creeps that did this.
This fun loving young duo are going to be spending some prison time.
 
In my opinion, good kids do not secretly tape their roommates having sex for everyone to see. Their actions were down right mean. I've never been a big fan of Ellen, but I wish I could personaly thank her for making the statement that she did.
 
Was this a murder legally? No IMHO. (meaning I don't think a charge would hold)

Was this a murder morally? A bit of a gray area but IMHO no. (can't charge on people for being morally bankrupt)

Should these two be charged with murder or homicide? Again a bit of a gray area, but no. (I don't think it would stick)

Should they be charged with a hate crime? An emphatic yes. I do think it would stick too.

I hope that once the case goes to court that these two will be convicted of their crimes which are felonies. JMHO. A felony never goes away, they will carry it as a reminder for the rest of their adult lives because IMHO yes, they are morally responsible for inciting this young man to kill himself.

He is forever gone. Rest in Peace sweet young man, my heart grieves for your Parents and your friends and family.

If they aren't charged with a hate crime, I would hope that his Parents bring about a civil suits, if there is a way to do so. JMHO.
 
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-hVWQnjjM[/ame]

ETA: Apologies to others who posted this video in link form - I didn't see the video, so I posted it. I didn't notice your links until after. Still, a good message does bear repeating, IMO.
 
That was an incredibly moving message from Ellen. She could barely hold back the tears as she talked about the senseless loss of lives to bullying. Bless her for speaking out. I hope that she can reach the hearts of those suffering and give them strength to seek help.
 
JMHO but a prank is an act where once it is discovered to be a prank both parties, the one who pulled the prank and the one who the prank was pulled on - both get a good laugh together same with a practical joke.

When the "prank" (for lack of better word because IMHO this wasnt' a prank) is mean spirited and the end result is humiliation of the victim and embarrassement. It is an act of maliciousness. IMHO, even children as young as elementary school age have enough compassion to know when an act is going to hurt someone. Physically or emotionally. I can't excuse these 2 18 yr olds of their act of maliciousness because of their youth. IMHO this wasn't a prank or lapse of judgement, this was an out and out attack on the young man who died, and the end result that was looked for was extreme embarrassment and humiliation. All JMHO.

JMHO.
 
Tragedies like this should be moments where we search our own behaviour for cruelty and reprehensible behaviour, be it meanness towards others that effects them directly, or back biting in our kids' hearing, so they can grow up to be mean, vile people. Events like this should make us all think of ourselves and take a good long look at ourselves, for we are all guilty at times of being immature, mean spirited people.

However, do I feel sad for the two criminals in this case? As the facts stand (and I doubt it will ever come to light they were somehow FORCED to violate this young man's privacy), no, I feel no sadness for them. They were old enough to know better, and they did this out of pure meanness.

So what if they thought it was a joke? It wasn't, and now they have to pay for that.

We need to check this meanness. I don't believe in "kids will be kids" - because if, at 18, we just shrug and say, "well, kids are silly sometimes," when do we ever expect them to grow up?

18 is an adult. 18 can drive, and drink (in some jurisdictions), and vote, and go to war, and get married, and have children... it is old enough to pay for your own "mistakes" (i.e. malicious acts of abuse).

Rest in peace, Tyler. My heart breaks for the innocent victims in all this. I cannot imagine what his parents are going through, and I hope I never, ever can.

And to anyone out there who might be reading here and need to hear this - IT DOES GET A HELL OF A LOT BETTER. Just hang in there.
 
My little boy just got a t-shirt as a present this week, and it has a little honey bee on it, with the word Yourself underneath (Bee Yourself, get it?), and I loved it on sight. It's exactly what I wish for him.

The thought of people ever doing anything like this to him, ever, for being himself makes me want to vomit in rage.

What makes these people feel like they are in charge of what is right and ok? That they alone can judge what others should do?

I am disgusted and angry. Sorry for the double post, but I need to get that out of me someplace, so a vent post was required.
 
This is a horrible case and very emotional for many, rightfully so.

But, the bashing on this thread needs to STOP! Do not make it personal -- respond to the post, NOT the poster. This is a final warning and the next poster who does it will receive a TO.

Also, please remember that us mods. do not read every post in every thread. Please use that handy alert button when you see a post that violates TOS. Don't reply to the post, cuz it just makes more work for mods.

Carry on. :)
 
I guess so but I think some are getting too angry at these young people who made a mistake and bad judgement.That's my own personal opinion. I guess it will be up to the courts to decide what to do.

Respectfully, bad judgment would be speeding to get to work when you're late, dating the wrong person, snapping at your boss when he or she says something that you don't like, etc. A "mistake" would be drinking too much at a party, telling someone a secret who you should not have trusted, or overdrawing your bank account. A joke or prank would be putting salt in the sugar pot, putting a whoopie cushion on someone's seat before they sit down, putting a rubber snake in the coffee can, etc.

A mistake, bad judgment or joke would NOT consist of repeatedly attempting to, or actually videotaping another person, without their consent, in a compromising position or in a private moment, then inviting others to view what you have recorded, with the goal of making fun of that person, and gawking at them, and then broadcasting what you recorded on the internet where anyone could see it and where it can never be erased.

That is evil, disturbing, harassing and criminal behavior, IMO. There is nothing innocent in those actions. No pranky, juvenile mistake, or silly highjinks here. This was part of a sophisticated effort to record someone else surreptitiously, in their most personal, private moments, for the sole purpose of ridiculing and humiliating that person in a very public manner. Those "kids" knew exactly what they were doing.

Let me change the facts up a bit and see if that changes how some may feel about their little "prank". What if it was not a guy who was videotaped, but a girl? What if someone was repeatedly videotaping her in her room, alone, without her knowledge or consent? What if the video captured her in a private moment, but one that would not have the "immoral" label that some people may affix to an act, like consensual, premarital sex? For example, what if the video caught her masturbating or something, instead of having sex with another person? What if the young "prankster" then decided to invite others to view this video of this young woman, in a private moment, and to make fun of her, something along the lines of, "Hey, I dare you to come watch my fat roommate masturbate. She can't even get a guy!" or something like that? What if then, the secretly taped video of this young woman, along with the mocking comments about her, was published onto the internet, where it will be forever memorialized, and then the girl found out about it? What if she could not stand knowing that was out there for all to see, forever, any future employer could see it, any future potential mates, friends, her parents, her siblings could view it? What if as a result of all of that, she decided to kill herself? Would those who see this is as a minor issue still view the actions of the dirty peeping tom voyeur as just a mere "prank" that maybe got just a bit out of hand?

What if this poor girl was their own beloved daughter?

IMO, the acts of Ravi and possibly Wei, are criminally equivalent to the acts of the fictional peeping tom in my made up story above. The same. A young person was secretly and criminally video-taped in a private moment and then that video tape was published with the intent to humiliate, degrade, and harass. They are 18 years old. Young adults with the same rights and responsibilities of all adults. This was their moment, to show what kind of people they were raised and decided to be. Their actions show who they became, who they are at their core and it is ugly, IMO. Decent people do not choose to invade someone else's privacy with the intent to degrade that person, when deciding to pull a prank. Good people don't make the "mistake" of committing a crime that takes so much time to conceive of, set up and execute, with the intent of making sport of another's private moments. :twocents:
 
gitana - Thanks wasn't enough. That was a spot-on fabulous post! I am still horrified over this. It's something that can't be taken back or regretted. A young man is dead and he cannot be restored to his family. That is not a joke or a prank. It is a sad, senseless death to satisfy the amusement of cruel, heartless people.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-university-students-sexual-orientation-apparently-issue-roommate/story?id=11773331


Tyler Clementi's Family Hopes Son's Death Will Serve as Call for Compassion


The family of Rutgers University freshman Tyler Clementi said that they hope their son's death "will serve as a call for compassion, empathy and human dignity."

"The outpouring of emotion and support from our friends, community and family -- and from people across the country -- has been humbling and deeply moving," said Joe and Jane Clementi in the statement issued by their lawyer. "We thank each of you from the bottom of our hearts."

snip...


Lawyers for Ravi and Wei have not returned messages left by ABC News but Ravi's attorney, Steve Altman, told the New Jersey Star-Ledger that he does not think his client can be held criminally responsible for Clementi's death.

"To my knowledge, whatever the allegations are that justify the criminal complaints filed against the students, would not justify under either legal or common law any culpability for the suicide," Altman said.
 
http://sdgln.com/news/2010/10/01/gay-student-hangs-himself-rhode-island-dorm-room

Gay student hangs himself in Rhode Island dorm room

Chase’s death comes on the heels of another high-profile suicide by 18-year-old Rutgers University freshman Tyler Clementi, who killed himself by leaping off the George Washington Bridge on Sept. 22. Clementi had become extremely distraught after learning that his dorm roommate had secretly recorded him making out with another man and broadcasting it over the Internet without his consent or knowledge. The incident apparently outed Clementi, a gifted violinist.

In addition, several other teenage boys around the U.S. have killed themselves this month after being bullied in school.
 
In general, I think we have begun to see in this country, albeit, slowly, that harassment is wrong, it's criminal. We can tell that the attitude began to change with anti-stalking laws and zero-tolerance policies regarding bullying in schools around the nation. We still have a long way to go, but it's a start.

Unfortunately, I don't think that start, that change in attitude, has yet been extended to our attitude about the harassment of gay people. What would be considered cruel or even criminal when done to a straight person may not be seen the same way when done to a gay person. I think the difference is reflected by the belief of still too many that being gay is a choice and an immoral one at that. As if any person, especially a young man, would volunteer for a life where holding hands in public could lead to a beating, or worse, where one's own family and friends may cast him out for the rest of his life, where daily he is bullied for being different, where being himself could cost him his job, his ability to support himself, where being oneself possibly means, according to his religion, burning in hell for eternity. Where even his very manhood is questioned and criticized. Where instead of laws being passed to protect his rights, laws are passed to take them away.

Frankly, I think there is still way too much prejudice about gay people in the U.S. Laws and policies are created every year that seek to protect the general population, but those same laws are not implemented as quickly when the victim is gay. For example, in this case, why wasn't this young man's room changed immediately? Why haven't the two harassers been expelled already, or at least suspended temporarily pending investigation? I believe if it was a guy taping an innocent young girl, the wheels of justice would move much more quickly. Instead, IMO, we have a situation where too many people still think, perhaps even subconsciously, "Well, that pervert sissy brought this on himself. If he wants to behave that way, he deserves what he gets."

And as a result, we have two young people who think it was okay to break the law in this case, and harass this one person, because of who he is, and we have one young man who held such promise and was such a bright light in the world, who is no longer with us. What a senseless waste.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/01/earlyshow/living/parenting/main6918173.shtml


Matthew Shepard's Mom Speaks On Clementi Suicide


She said the students, Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, and Molly Wei should be punished for what they're accused of doing.

"I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law," she said. "What they did was reckless, thoughtless and hateful."

Judy said Clementi's death has brought back Matthew's death, and she says his parents have her deepest sympathies.

She said, "Only they know the true soul of their son, and that is what they need to hold in their hearts now."
 
I may have posted my personal story on another thread but anyway- I was an overweight, bookish kid in High School and was subjected to all this. School officials did nothing, even when my parents complained. The perps were the football jocks and sons of the banker, etc. My dad was told I 'provoked' them. Little town in Iowa, you get the picture. It left me with a burning sense of the injustice of it all. I was raised as a fundementalist Baptist and I forsook that in adult life mainly because of the churches attitude toward these issues. I now have a 14 year old son and have been very sensitive to this sort of thing.
Thankfully, his school takes a far different attitude. He has stood up for himself more than once. A few weeks ago he was being followed home from school by a kid who kept stepping on his heel, calling him a 🤬🤬🤬, etc. I arranged to be waiting in my car when he was walking and caught the little 🤬🤬🤬 in the act. I was careful to not touch him or threaten him but I think I scared the hell out of the little punk. He has stayed away, far away from my son since.
I later learned who he was- parents are both police officers, and their car has 'Christian' symbols on it. So I think I know where he got it.
Thank God times are different, at least a bit.
One other thing- if these two had stopped with the taping and maybe even just showed it to a few people that wouild have been bad enough. But they posted it on the net. That was cruel and deliberate evil.
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/01/2010-10-01_tyler_clementis_parents_open_up_on_rutgers_freshmans_suicide_after_gay_encounter.html



Related NewsRutgers frosh complained of video voyeur before suicideTeen kills self after classmates tape his sex sessionDaly: Bullying has no bounds on the Internet
The heartbroken parents of the Rutgers freshman who committed suicide after his gay hook-up was streamed live with a webcam said Friday they hope their son did not die in vain.

BBM in colour


Surely the writer of this article could have chosen a better term. I find this expression offensive in itself. sigh! We still have a long way to go.
 

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