"Stun Gun" marks

[BlueCrab]

What would be the special circumstance that would cause a person to WANT or NEED such a Maglite?

Camper,

Maglites come in 2-cell lights; 3-cell lights; and 4-cell lights. I owned a 3-cell Maglite (until it was stolen) and I can vouch that there's a huge difference in how far the spot can carry when those extra cells are included.

The Ramsey Maglite was also a 3 cell light. A 3-cell light is about 12 inches long and weighs around 2 pounds with its batteries.

BlueCrab

 

[Eagle1]

Camper,

Maglites come in 2-cell lights; 3-cell lights; and 4-cell lights. I owned a 3-cell Maglite (until it was stolen) and I can vouch that there's a huge difference in how far the spot can carry when those extra cells are included.

The Ramsey Maglite was also a 3 cell light. A 3-cell light is about 12 inches long and weighs around 2 pounds with its batteries.

BlueCrab

So there are flashlights that big. If Melody Stanton's husband heard a child being beaten over the head, METAL striking concrete, ( so JBR would have been already down) would the big flashlight have plastic around its front end so that it wouldn't sound like metal?

If the plastic quickly broke off, would 2 or 3 lbs of metal be heard all the way across the narrow street , because of the vent pipe, hitting the concrete, in an area where there was no asbetos tile? Or would the weapon have to be something heavier?

Stratbuckler or whatever his name was just could have been simply wrong, and Lou Smit not necessarily so, because he really did have a lot of professional experience in this line of work. If he was guessing a stun gun, it was, we have to admit, an educated guess. An opinion from one expert, right?

 

[BlueCrab]

So there are flashlights that big. If Melody Stanton's husband heard a child being beaten over the head, METAL striking concrete, ( so JBR would have been already down) would the big flashlight have plastic around its front end so that it wouldn't sound like metal?

If the plastic quickly broke off, would 2 or 3 lbs of metal be heard all the way across the narrow street , because of the vent pipe, hitting the concrete, in an area where there was no asbetos tile? Or would the weapon have to be something heavier?

Eagle 1,

The casings of Maglite flash lights are made of heavy cast aluminum and can take quite a beating. There's very little, if any, plastic on it. However, I don't think a Maglite would make a "metal scraping against Concrete" sound that Luther Stanton reportedly heard all the way across the street and through his partially open bedroom window. Aluminum is a relatively soft metal and a compact aluminum flashlight wouldn't make nearly the noise that a steel or iron object would make if scraped on concrete.

Incidentally, it was Melody Stanton who heard the scream sometime between midnight and 2 AM. She woke up her husband but neither of them investigated, and she fell back to sleep. Luther Stanton shortly thereafter heard the metal scraping against concrete sound.

It's also interesting to note that the Ramseys also slept with their bedroom windows partly open. It's true that noises from the basement can barely be heard in the 3rd floor bedroom, but noises from outside can be easily heard through the Ramsey's open bedroom window just as the Stanton's experienced.

Therefore, IMO the scream could have been what also woke up the Ramseys. That timeline would fit my theory of John finding JonBenet's body around 1 to 3 AM.

BlueCrab

 

[UKGuy]

Eagle 1,

The casings of Maglite flash lights are made of heavy cast aluminum and can take quite a beating. There's very little, if any, plastic on it. However, I don't think a Maglite would make a "metal scraping against Concrete" sound that Luther Stanton reportedly heard all the way across the street and through his partially open bedroom window. Aluminum is a relatively soft metal and a compact aluminum flashlight wouldn't make nearly the noise that a steel or iron object would make if scraped on concrete.

Incidentally, it was Melody Stanton who heard the scream sometime between midnight and 2 AM. She woke up her husband but neither of them investigated, and she fell back to sleep. Luther Stanton shortly thereafter heard the metal scraping against concrete sound.

It's also interesting to note that the Ramseys also slept with their bedroom windows partly open. It's true that noises from the basement can barely be heard in the 3rd floor bedroom, but noises from outside can be easily heard through the Ramsey's open bedroom window just as the Stanton's experienced.

Therefore, IMO the scream could have been what also woke up the Ramseys. That timeline would fit my theory of John finding JonBenet's body around 1 to 3 AM.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Assuming your timeline is correct, when John discovered JonBnet's corpse posed or not, she must have been recently killed, rigor mortis would not yet be complete, so he must have had a good idea who the kiler was?


.

 

[Camper]

Eagle 1,

The casings of Maglite flash lights are made of heavy cast aluminum and can take quite a beating. There's very little, if any, plastic on it. However, I don't think a Maglite would make a "metal scraping against Concrete" sound that Luther Stanton reportedly heard all the way across the street and through his partially open bedroom window. Aluminum is a relatively soft metal and a compact aluminum flashlight wouldn't make nearly the noise that a steel or iron object would make if scraped on concrete.

Incidentally, it was Melody Stanton who heard the scream sometime between midnight and 2 AM. She woke up her husband but neither of them investigated, and she fell back to sleep. Luther Stanton shortly thereafter heard the metal scraping against concrete sound.

It's also interesting to note that the Ramseys also slept with their bedroom windows partly open. It's true that noises from the basement can barely be heard in the 3rd floor bedroom, but noises from outside can be easily heard through the Ramsey's open bedroom window just as the Stanton's experienced.

Therefore, IMO the scream could have been what also woke up the Ramseys. That timeline would fit my theory of John finding JonBenet's body around 1 to 3 AM.

BlueCrab

BC, interesting to note as well, in my mind at least, that JR was near the age when he may have had some 'up in the night' for bathroom needs. (Prostate er/hey I am guessing here don't spread rumors as fact, it is just a guess on my part}

Aluminum is a soft metal as well, and the ?flashlight? on the kitchen counter would have shown damage in that area of the Maglite IF IF that thought was ok, donut think so.

Wonder how long Stanton stood at the window? (hey how old was Stanton/he might have gone to the bathroom too)oh for heavens sake, hmmm. IF significant time elapsed tween the scream/JR going to the bathroom & hearing the scream/and Stanton coming back to the window/metal scraping on cement.

Then what would JR have done to make the sound of cement/metal etc. IFIF JR got to the basement in time to see a fleeing friend through the window. WONDER IF anyone i n the basement could hear a grown man coming down the stairs to the basement, sort of an advance warning thing? Jiggers etc.

The friend would not be going UP the stairs as JR was coming down, huh, nope, donut think so.

.

 

[Eagle1]

I never said the flashlight in the kitchen was the murder weapon, never have thought that, but you make a good point for those that may believe it's the smoking gun, that if so, it would show some damage.

I'm trying to get some guesses what metal could be heavy enough for Luther (?) Stanton to hear.

Surely someone here must have some thoughts. I've said maybe a shovel.
And that perhaps it was transported to and from in a car with lights off.

Most of the basement probably had floors finished with some kind of tile. We pretty much know she was killed near that vent pipe and pretty closely what time. What could the metal murder weapon have been?

 

[UKGuy]

BlueCrab,

How does your BDI account for the missing piece of the Paintbrush?


.

 

[Camper]

I never said the flashlight in the kitchen was the murder weapon, never have thought that, but you make a good point for those that may believe it's the smoking gun, that if so, it would show some damage.

I'm trying to get some guesses what metal could be heavy enough for Luther (?) Stanton to hear.

Surely someone here must have some thoughts. I've said maybe a shovel.
And that perhaps it was transported to and from in a car with lights off.

Most of the basement probably had floors finished with some kind of tile. We pretty much know she was killed near that vent pipe and pretty closely what time. What could the metal murder weapon have been?

--->>>Eagle I cannot come up with a thought for you. All of the might have been/could have been/perhaps it was/or whattabout this have been worked to a nub. I donut know.

WHY was the Maglite left on the kitchen counter at all, with all fingerprints wiped off? Donut know that either.

.

 

[Camper]

BlueCrab,

How does your BDI account for the missing piece of the Paintbrush?


.

--->>>Will inject my thought in here FWIW. I am assuming the tip end is what you refer to. I have posted this in years past, so once more. When I actively painted pictures and had access to all types of art brushes with our own store. I would really like the brush tip of a long handled artist brush, but could not work with the unwieldy wavering length of the brush. I would frequently saw off the approximate portion that is missing on the R brush, just to make the brush easier to handle.

.

I just threw the tip away. I suppose it could be something that simple in this case. Nothing to do with BDI. No one really knows with certaintly. The remaining part of the brush handle looked old to me.

.
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[Nuisanceposter]

Maybe the paintbrush was already broken and missing a piece before it was chosen to be used in the ligature, and that's why it was the one chosen - because it was already broken, and more expendable than the other paintbrushes in the paint tray.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe the paintbrush was already broken and missing a piece before it was chosen to be used in the ligature, and that's why it was the one chosen - because it was already broken, and more expendable than the other paintbrushes in the paint tray.

Nuisanceposter,

From memory it was freshly broken with shards of wood left just outside the wine-cellar door, I doubt whether anyone was concerned whether it was already broken and expendable, if this was a resident, they are wealthy why bother, if they were intruder why care?

There is no blood or apparent residue left on the remaining pieces, so I assume the missing piece will have these forensic features?



.

 

[UKGuy]

--->>>Will inject my thought in here FWIW. I am assuming the tip end is what you refer to. I have posted this in years past, so once more. When I actively painted pictures and had access to all types of art brushes with our own store. I would really like the brush tip of a long handled artist brush, but could not work with the unwieldy wavering length of the brush. I would frequently saw off the approximate portion that is missing on the R brush, just to make the brush easier to handle.

.

I just threw the tip away. I suppose it could be something that simple in this case. Nothing to do with BDI. No one really knows with certaintly. The remaining part of the brush handle looked old to me.

.
.

Camper,

If an available paintbrush piece was used to assault JonBenet then the remaining pieces do not have any blood or residue on them and none was reported.

.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

How does your BDI account for the missing piece of the Paintbrush?


.

UKGuy,

Okay, but please remember that, although based on the evidence as we know it, it's just a theory.

There were obviously some kinky sexual things going on that night, such as the acute injuries to the vagina, the cord bondage, the erotic asphyxiation device with a wooden handle tied to one end of it, and the blue suitcase containing a pillow sham and a comforter from JAR's bedroom and a Dr. Seuss Book which also belonged to JAR.

According to the CBI, fibers from the sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature, and inside the body bag.

IMO the EA device had been built on a day prior to the killing of JonBenet and had been stored in the blue suitcase. The sexual assault and probably the killing itself occurred on the comforter. The tip of the wooden handle tied to the EA device was likely sexual in nature, such as perhaps whittled into the shape of a penis. If so, the tip had to be broken off and destroyed because it would have contained DNA evidence and would have fully verified that it was a sexual device, something the perp was trying to hide.

The length of the cord between the wooden handle and the neck ligature measured 17". This is the approximate distance between the neck and the crotch area. Therefore, the design of the device also lent itself to be possibly used for EA or AEA.

The intricate device was obviously designed and built by a teen or a young adult ahead of time and had probably been used in JonBenet's bed about two days prior to the murder. Cord fibers from the device were found in her bed.

JonBenet had slept in Burke's bedroom on Christmas Eve night, the 24th, so the fibers hadn't been deposited in JonBenet's bed on that night. It had to have been on the night of the 23rd or on the night of the murder, the 25th.

The tip of the wooden paint brush handle, fashioned into a handle on the EA device, had to be destroyed as it would upset the staging that was trying to turn a sexual murder into a kidnap murder.

BlueCrab

 

[Solace]

UKGuy,

Okay, but please remember that, although based on the evidence as we know it, it's just a theory.

There were obviously some kinky sexual things going on that night, such as the acute injuries to the vagina, the cord bondage, the erotic asphyxiation device with a wooden handle tied to one end of it, and the blue suitcase containing a pillow sham and a comforter from JAR's bedroom and a Dr. Seuss Book which also belonged to JAR.

According to the CBI, fibers from the sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature, and inside the body bag.

IMO the EA device had been built on a day prior to the killing of JonBenet and had been stored in the blue suitcase. The sexual assault and probably the killing itself occurred on the comforter. The tip of the wooden handle tied to the EA device was likely sexual in nature, such as perhaps whittled into the shape of a penis. If so, the tip had to be broken off and destroyed because it would have contained DNA evidence and would have fully verified that it was a sexual device, something the perp was trying to hide.

The length of the cord between the wooden handle and the neck ligature measured 17". This is the approximate distance between the neck and the crotch area. Therefore, the design of the device also lent itself to be possibly used for EA or AEA.

The intricate device was obviously designed and built by a teen or a young adult ahead of time and had probably been used in JonBenet's bed about two days prior to the murder. Cord fibers from the device were found in her bed.

JonBenet had slept in Burke's bedroom on Christmas Eve night, the 24th, so the fibers hadn't been deposited in JonBenet's bed on that night. It had to have been on the night of the 23rd or on the night of the murder, the 25th.

The tip of the wooden paint brush handle, fashioned into a handle on the EA device, had to be destroyed as it would upset the staging that was trying to turn a sexual murder into a kidnap murder.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Berke Ramsey sexually assaulted his sister and wrote the Ransom note (I guess this is all with the help of one of his friends, who shall remain nameless). And by the way since you are answering questions about the BDI theory, you believing it was Berke is academic to anyone reading this. There is really no reason to hide that fact anymore, since you answered UK's question, don't you agree.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

Okay, but please remember that, although based on the evidence as we know it, it's just a theory.

There were obviously some kinky sexual things going on that night, such as the acute injuries to the vagina, the cord bondage, the erotic asphyxiation device with a wooden handle tied to one end of it, and the blue suitcase containing a pillow sham and a comforter from JAR's bedroom and a Dr. Seuss Book which also belonged to JAR.

According to the CBI, fibers from the sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature, and inside the body bag.

IMO the EA device had been built on a day prior to the killing of JonBenet and had been stored in the blue suitcase. The sexual assault and probably the killing itself occurred on the comforter. The tip of the wooden handle tied to the EA device was likely sexual in nature, such as perhaps whittled into the shape of a penis. If so, the tip had to be broken off and destroyed because it would have contained DNA evidence and would have fully verified that it was a sexual device, something the perp was trying to hide.

The length of the cord between the wooden handle and the neck ligature measured 17". This is the approximate distance between the neck and the crotch area. Therefore, the design of the device also lent itself to be possibly used for EA or AEA.

The intricate device was obviously designed and built by a teen or a young adult ahead of time and had probably been used in JonBenet's bed about two days prior to the murder. Cord fibers from the device were found in her bed.

JonBenet had slept in Burke's bedroom on Christmas Eve night, the 24th, so the fibers hadn't been deposited in JonBenet's bed on that night. It had to have been on the night of the 23rd or on the night of the murder, the 25th.

The tip of the wooden paint brush handle, fashioned into a handle on the EA device, had to be destroyed as it would upset the staging that was trying to turn a sexual murder into a kidnap murder.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Thanks for the explanation, so if I understand correctly, because the missing piece of the paintbrush had been shaped to take on a phallic shape, it had to be destroyed so the revised staging would not be compromised?

This missing piece is a bit like the wiped down flashlight or the pineapple, their inclusion or exclusion is patently important to whomever killed JonBenet?


.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Berke Ramsey sexually assaulted his sister and wrote the Ransom note (I guess this is all with the help of one of his friends, who shall remain nameless). And by the way since you are answering questions about the BDI theory, you believing it was Berke is academic to anyone reading this. There is really no reason to hide that fact anymore, since you answered UK's question, don't you agree.

Solace,

IMO Burke did not kill JonBenet.

BlueCrab

 

[Solace]

Solace,

IMO Burke did not kill JonBenet.

BlueCrab

I must have misunderstood.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Thanks for the explanation, so if I understand correctly, because the missing piece of the paintbrush had been shaped to take on a phallic shape, it had to be destroyed so the revised staging would not be compromised?

This missing piece is a bit like the wiped down flashlight or the pineapple, their inclusion or exclusion is patently important to whomever killed JonBenet?


.

UKGuy,

Correct. Except the pineapple evidence is by far the most important of the three you mentioned. The undigested pineapple in the small intestine places JonBenet willingly with the killer(s) about one hour before she died.

Incidentally, I forgot to add in my explanation to your query that JAR's semen was also found on the comforter.

BlueCrab

 

[Solace]

UKGuy,

Okay, but please remember that, although based on the evidence as we know it, it's just a theory.

There were obviously some kinky sexual things going on that night, such as the acute injuries to the vagina, the cord bondage, the erotic asphyxiation device with a wooden handle tied to one end of it, and the blue suitcase containing a pillow sham and a comforter from JAR's bedroom and a Dr. Seuss Book which also belonged to JAR.

According to the CBI, fibers from the sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature, and inside the body bag.

IMO the EA device had been built on a day prior to the killing of JonBenet and had been stored in the blue suitcase. The sexual assault and probably the killing itself occurred on the comforter. The tip of the wooden handle tied to the EA device was likely sexual in nature, such as perhaps whittled into the shape of a penis. If so, the tip had to be broken off and destroyed because it would have contained DNA evidence and would have fully verified that it was a sexual device, something the perp was trying to hide.

The length of the cord between the wooden handle and the neck ligature measured 17". This is the approximate distance between the neck and the crotch area. Therefore, the design of the device also lent itself to be possibly used for EA or AEA.

The intricate device was obviously designed and built by a teen or a young adult ahead of time and had probably been used in JonBenet's bed about two days prior to the murder. Cord fibers from the device were found in her bed.

JonBenet had slept in Burke's bedroom on Christmas Eve night, the 24th, so the fibers hadn't been deposited in JonBenet's bed on that night. It had to have been on the night of the 23rd or on the night of the murder, the 25th.

The tip of the wooden paint brush handle, fashioned into a handle on the EA device, had to be destroyed as it would upset the staging that was trying to turn a sexual murder into a kidnap murder.

BlueCrab

BlueCrab,

Can you tell me where you got the following information.

"According to the CBI, fibers from the sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature, and inside the body bag."

I would like to read it. I know Steve Thomas reports the book and comforter in the suitcase. I do not remember comforter fibers being found on JB. Please let me know where I can read it. Thanks, Solace

Also, as I understand it the FBI disputes this:

Smit's argument: Many significant hairs and fibers associated with the crime don't belong to John or Patsy.

Inside the suitcase: A pillow sham, a comforter and a Dr. Seuss book were found inside the suitcase. These items belonged to John Andrew, John Ramsey's older son. A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag. Smit wonders if the intruder, intending to kidnap JonBenet, tried to put her inside the suitcase so he wouldn't be seen carrying a small girl through the area, but she wouldn't fit or he couldn't boost himself and the suitcase out of the window.

FBI analysis: FBI examiners said the fibers on JonBenet came from a source other than the pillow sham and comforter -- but none of them matched anything else in the house. "If the FBI examiner is right, the killer had to take that piece of material out with him," Smit said.
This is what I have found on this. Just fyi. Solace

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,

Can you tell me where you got the following information.

"According to the CBI, fibers from the sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape, on the hand ligature, and inside the body bag."

I would like to read it. I know Steve Thomas reports the book and comforter in the suitcase. I do not remember comforter fibers being found on JB. Please let me know where I can read it. Thanks, Solace

Also, as I understand it the FBI disputes this:

Smit's argument: Many significant hairs and fibers associated with the crime don't belong to John or Patsy.

Inside the suitcase: A pillow sham, a comforter and a Dr. Seuss book were found inside the suitcase. These items belonged to John Andrew, John Ramsey's older son. A CBI examiner issued a report indicating fibers from the pillow sham and comforter were found on JonBenet's shirt, on her vaginal area, on the duct tape from her hand, on the hand ligature and inside the body bag. Smit wonders if the intruder, intending to kidnap JonBenet, tried to put her inside the suitcase so he wouldn't be seen carrying a small girl through the area, but she wouldn't fit or he couldn't boost himself and the suitcase out of the window.

FBI analysis: FBI examiners said the fibers on JonBenet came from a source other than the pillow sham and comforter -- but none of them matched anything else in the house. "If the FBI examiner is right, the killer had to take that piece of material out with him," Smit said.
This is what I have found on this. Just fyi. Solace

Solace,

Sorry, but I don't have any sources re' the comforter fibers other than what you included in your above post. Lou Smit's take on the fiber evidence, included in detail in his power point presentation, has been widely quoted in various articles and publications. I don't ever remembering seeing the CBI's report on the fiber evidence. The Atlanta interviews of 2000 included only the fibers from the clothing of Patsy and John.

Bluecrab