"Stun Gun" marks

[Tober]

Face it, hard as this is for you, the very fact the brush was broken like that proves there was an outsider, maybe a big guy.

Hi Eagle--I'd have to disagree. It proves the offender was determined, not that the offender was a male or an intruder.

 

[Solace]

Watercolor brushes are shorter, but PR didn't do watercolor.

This had to be a strong CRIMINAL mind to have broken off the probably-expensive oil painting brush to use in such a way. There were shards right outside the door of the boiler room, and some inside the child. JR is much too mild-mannered to have done anything like that either. He was let go from a job after a year for not having enough "IMPACT" .

Face it, hard as this is for you, the very fact the brush was broken like that proves there was an outsider, maybe a big guy. There are parents who kill, but not these parents. We know them too well. Not Burke either. A 10-yr-old boy wouldn't be strong enough, and just would not be that corrupted at such a young age. Even Leopold and Loeb weren't. Even they apparently didn't think of anything like that. This had to be a seasoned criminal. Or seasoned molester, at least, and in my book that's criminal.

Eagle. Hi how are you?

But I also have to strongly disagree. John Ramsey is certainly capable of breaking a paintbrush. Eagle, so is Patsy if she had to. I do not believe Burke did it, but if he were to pick up a maglight and hit her with full force, he could most definitely inflict that kind of damage. I know the 'TV" reported otherwise, but their reports should be taken with a very large grain of salt. Most of them are idiots anyway so I am not about to believe that only a 350 pound man could inflict a head wound such as the one on JonBenet. And it is just the kind of thing that a man would do, break the paint brush and say "Patsy, start writing the note". I think this is entirely possible that he would aid and abet like this. I think he really did love Patsy and I could see her doing this to JonBenet in a fit of rage and then have overwhelming remorse and John saying it does no good for two people to go and Berke needs her also. She did not mean to do this. Remember Patsy did say, I know in my heart I did not do this.

Whoever says something like that, it is usually "I know I did not mean to do this".

There is just no evidence of an intruder.

 

[Solace]

Tober, you're a guy, a young one, and not married, right? No sisters either? On what do you base your alleged knowledge of womens' strenth?

Trust me, as well as Camper, and any other women here who bother to reply, NO woman could break the tip off an artist paint brush!!!!!!!!1!111
You've never been a woman. You just don't know, haven't been there or anywhere near there.

There were some wood shards inside JonBenet I remember, so PR was telling the truth that none of her brushes were broken, even if she may have been confused about a lot of other things, as I know I would have been if my child had been killed. I wouldn't have done as well as she did. My kids are part of me just like an arm or a leg. I'd have been dead too, at least mentally.

Sometimes it's hard for my husband, like you, to believe how much stronger guys are than women. But it's verified in the Good Book, "Give honor to the woman as the weaker vessel." It's a fact of life. I've always heard that "a real man" is protective of women for that reason.

How much of the tip are we talking about. I was under the impression that it was broken almost in half? Am I wrong?

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Using the common denominator of a 1/16th of an inch, here are the dimensions of the facial, back, and leg wounds-

under the right ear- 6/16 x 4/16
right side of chin- 3/16 x 2/16
back #1- 2/16 x 1/16
back #2- 2/16 x 3/16
leg #1- 1/16 x less than 1/16
leg #2- 2/16 x less than 1/16

Here is what should be done: Someone should track down the jeweler(s) who set Patsy's rings and find out the dimensions of the settings. Pretty simple task, really. Someone out there knows where the rings came from, if not where they are now...

 

[Solace]

Here is what should be done: Someone should track down the jeweler(s) who set Patsy's rings and find out the dimensions of the settings. Pretty simple task, really. Someone out there knows where the rings came from, if not where they are now...

Good idea, except I have no idea where to get dimensions from her rings.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Good idea, except I have no idea where to get dimensions from her rings.

I don't know for sure, but my guess is the jeweler who created the settings might keep a record of the standard size settings for particular stones. Maybe he even has records of exactly which rings Patsy purchased. If they were costume jewelry, then we are probably out of luck.

But, there are only so many jewelers in the Boulder and Atlanta areas. Perhaps someone knows which ones Patsy and John might have frequented.

 

[Solace]

I don't know for sure, but my guess is the jeweler who created the settings might keep a record of the standard size settings for particular stones. Maybe he even has records of exactly which rings Patsy purchased. If they were costume jewelry, then we are probably out of luck.

But, there are only so many jewelers in the Boulder and Atlanta areas. Perhaps someone knows which ones Patsy and John might have frequented.

help us. WolfmarsGirl is on to something.

Wolfsmargirl: I went to see Zodiac yesterday and it is good, but I am writing for this reason. It is very hard to watch at times because of the mistakes made and one cannot help but say very quickly into the movie. This case would have been solved very quickly if it had been today.

The Ramsey case would have been solved if it had been in any other city. Look at what is happening there now with the dead baby. It is a sham, but if it had been NYC, it would be "ova" for the Ramseys.

 

[Tober]

Here is what should be done: Someone should track down the jeweler(s) who set Patsy's rings and find out the dimensions of the settings. Pretty simple task, really. Someone out there knows where the rings came from, if not where they are now...

Excellent idea. There is a lot of additional testing and follow-up that could and should be done. Mary Lacy and company won't do these things though, because the further you dig, the closer to the Ramseys you get.

 

[Camper]

Whose ring might we be discussing here, PR's ring OR rings? Everyone has 'rings'. Did Burke have a ring, did his good friend have a ring, did the tutor have a ring, did JAR have a ring - did everyones rings have stones or protrusions?

Where are PR's rings now, even if the measurements matched they no doubt would match nearly every persons rings who live in Boulder who has a similar ring.

A woodburning tool tip could match the marks on the body. Does not mean it had to be hot and in use, but the mark could match one of the woodburning tips IF IF the tips were still around. FAT CHANCE.

Since folks can strongly disagree about things they have no knowledge of, I have license to strongly disagree about PR ever gouging and tormenting her baby with her personal jewelry.

I am done with this senselessness. NOTHING at this late date could ever be proven on such skimpy wild haired thoughts.

.

 

[BlueCrab]

Since folks can strongly disagree about things they have no knowledge of, I have license to strongly disagree about PR ever gouging and tormenting her baby with her personal jewelry.

I am done with this senselessness. NOTHING at this late date could ever be proven on such skimpy wild haired thoughts.

.

Ouch!

 

[UKGuy]

Whose ring might we be discussing here, PR's ring OR rings? Everyone has 'rings'. Did Burke have a ring, did his good friend have a ring, did the tutor have a ring, did JAR have a ring - did everyones rings have stones or protrusions?

Where are PR's rings now, even if the measurements matched they no doubt would match nearly every persons rings who live in Boulder who has a similar ring.

A woodburning tool tip could match the marks on the body. Does not mean it had to be hot and in use, but the mark could match one of the woodburning tips IF IF the tips were still around. FAT CHANCE.

Since folks can strongly disagree about things they have no knowledge of, I have license to strongly disagree about PR ever gouging and tormenting her baby with her personal jewelry.

I am done with this senselessness. NOTHING at this late date could ever be proven on such skimpy wild haired thoughts.

.

Well, you left out JR, and that has nothing to do with South Fork!


.

 

[Camper]

Well, you left out JR, and that has nothing to do with South Fork!


.

OOPS~~! Sometimes I just likes to call em like I see's em.

.

 

[Eagle1]

How much of the tip are we talking about. I was under the impression that it was broken almost in half? Am I wrong?

Yes, I think you're probably right or pretty close. My point is that absolutely no woman, not even Sybil's mother, could break an artist brush, or would even think of such a use for it. Guys, on the other hand, I remember in a book about the Michigan co-ed murders, and have heard regarding misc. other crimes, sometimes use foreign objects. Someone witnessed that two or maybe three white cars were parked down a lane at the edge of some woods, a woman's scream was heard, and a victim was later found to have been raped with part of a tree branch.

I should pretty much know how women think, since I are one, and since we haven't heard of any female murderers using foreign objects, that Patsy would not even have thought of such a thing. Nor would Luther Stanton have heard a flashlight scraping on the concrete basement floor, nor would the R's have planted a flashlight with no prints on the kitchen counter.

BullMoose has suggested something like a CROWBAR may have been the murder weapon, at another forum, possibly. Works for me, or, even better, a big steel pipe or a shovel. A bat wouldn't have been heavy enough to make that much noise. Neither would a flashlight.

 

[Solace]

Yes, I think you're probably right or pretty close. My point is that absolutely no woman, not even Sybil's mother, could break an artist brush, or would even think of such a use for it. Guys, on the other hand, I remember in a book about the Michigan co-ed murders, and have heard regarding misc. other crimes, sometimes use foreign objects. Someone witnessed that two or maybe three white cars were parked down a lane at the edge of some woods, a woman's scream was heard, and a victim was later found to have been raped with part of a tree branch. My son agrees with you. He said that is something a man would do - John grabbed the paintbrush and broke it in half and maybe told Patsy to do something else.

I should pretty much know how women think, since I are one, and since we haven't heard of any female murderers using foreign objects, that Patsy would not even have thought of such a thing. Nor would Luther Stanton have heard a flashlight scraping on the concrete basement floor, nor would the R's have planted a flashlight with no prints on the kitchen counter.

BullMoose has suggested something like a CROWBAR may have been the murder weapon, at another forum, possibly. Works for me, or, even better, a big steel pipe or a shovel. A bat wouldn't have been heavy enough to make that much noise. Neither would a flashlight.

Or a golf club, but then again Dr. Spitz (sp?) says the maglight flash light (its end fits perfectly into the rectangular wound).

 

[Tober]

Nor would Luther Stanton have heard a flashlight scraping on the concrete basement floor, nor would the R's have planted a flashlight with no prints on the kitchen counter.

Eagle--You're assuming the sound Mr. Stanton heard occurred during infliction of JonBenet's head injury. I think it's more likely the sound occurred as something was being moved in the body room during the staging and/or placement of the body. Perhaps the sound was the paint cans or the piece of sheet metal that was taken into evidence being moved.

 

[Tober]

BullMoose has suggested something like a CROWBAR may have been the murder weapon, at another forum, possibly. Works for me, or, even better, a big steel pipe or a shovel. A bat wouldn't have been heavy enough to make that much noise. Neither would a flashlight.

Not only does the flashlight fit JonBenet's head injury perfectly, but it's the type of weapon that could have caused it, e.g. hard and heavy enough to fracture her skull, but soft enough on the outside due to its rubber coating so as to not break her scalp.

 

[BlueCrab]

Not only does the flashlight fit JonBenet's head injury perfectly, but it's the type of weapon that could have caused it, e.g. hard and heavy enough to fracture her skull, but soft enough on the outside due to its rubber coating so as to not break her scalp.

Tober,

3-cell Mag-lite flashlights, using D batteries (the kind owned by the Ramseys), are not rubber coated. The entire exterior is heavy gauge anodized aluminum.

Bluecrab

 

[Tober]

Tober,

3-cell Mag-lite flashlights, using D batteries (the kind owned by the Ramseys), are not rubber coated. The entire exterior is heavy gauge anodized aluminum.

Bluecrab

You're going outside the scope of evidence to try and claim something as evidence. The flashlight in question that was taken into evidence has a rubber coating. I challenge you to prove to me that the flashlight in evidence does not have a rubber coating.

 

[Jayelles]

We have one of the great big Maglites and it has a rubber coating. I also have a mini maglite in my handbag and it is a smart little hard silver coloured metal one.

I won my little torch with a scratch card on a flight and I was quite surprised that it WAS a maglite because I thought the rubber coating was their "trademark".

 

[Camper]

Not only does the flashlight fit JonBenet's head injury perfectly, but it's the type of weapon that could have caused it, e.g. hard and heavy enough to fracture her skull, but soft enough on the outside due to its rubber coating so as to not break her scalp.

--->>>Well Tober, I have to agree with your statement here, so this makes us one and one.

The circumference of the flashlight, bigger around than a golf club, and bigger around than a pipe, would make imop, a softer blow, in that the flashlight MIGHT not have broken the skin, but in fact caused the skull damage.

My thoughts are that aluminum is a softer metal than steel as well. MOre easily damaged than steel certainly.

Any of us have a link for a picture of the actual flashlight?

Jayelles your comment about Maglites is most interesting.

BC what is your basis of fact about the 'mag in the R's kitchen'?

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