"Stun Gun" marks

[Solace]

Actually, he said she was the only one proven to be in the house. I guess what I'm saying is when you eliminate the impossible, what remains must be the truth.



Hoffman claims that the Rs never released any handwriting analysis that contradicts the analysis of his experts. And he is correct. No one has.

Anyone have that side-by-side comparison chart? The PDF file I mean. That would do it.

Nice to have you step in on this. I will get right on it.:woohoo:

I am trying to find it, but if anyone else gets it before I do, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POST THE LINK. THANKS MUCH.

 

[JMO8778]

Let me respond:

"…It is the current understanding of the family that the investigation team considers this male DNA sample to be the key piece of evidence and was, without a doubt, left behind by the killer of their child."

The very same scientist who conducted the DNA testing in the Denver Police Department’s DNA lab contradicts the above statement.

Rocky Mountain News, May 18, 2004, Charlie Brennan
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/dr...2893675,00.html
text version backup

A claim by John Ramsey's campaign that investigators have the DNA of his daughter's killer goes too far, according to the forensic scientist who developed the genetic profile from that sample.

"That's one of the possibilities, but that's not the only possibility," said the scientist, who asked that his name not be used. It's impossible to say whether the DNA belonged to an adult or a child, according to the scientist.

"You have DNA that's male, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the killer's," the scientist said. "It could be innocent. It could be from the (undergarment's) manufacturer. It could be a lot of things. Of course it's important. But it's not more important than the rest of the investigation."

"It is only a sample," he said. "You need a match, and that will help you get a name. And then that gives you somebody to talk to. But that person might be alibied-out, or there might be some other explanation for why it's there."


Without knowing if a sample was left by blood, saliva, or some other material, it could be "unknown cellular material sloughed off by somebody's hand," the source said. "You're in an area that is very gray, and it can be very confusing, as to the interpretive value of it."




Polygraphs: The Ramsey attorneys first contacted a polygraph examiner named Gene Parker and inquired if he would be interested in performing the polygraph test on John and Patsy. Parker said he would be interested in performing the tests, but mentioned that because of the seriousness of the crime, he would require both Ramseys take a drug test. Parker said the urine drug tests could be performed right on his premises by a doctor or nurse just before the tests began. The Ramsey attorney told Parker they would get back to him at a later date, and they did call him back about three hours later. In that second call, Parker was informed they were not interested in his conducting the tests because they had found another polygraph examiner they planned on using who did not require drug testing.

Gelb's involvement in the Ramsey case has brought out some very interesting information about the man. . Supposedly Gelb's resume states that he received his doctorate degree from LaSalle University in Louisiana. That would be a real problem, because LaSalle was found to be nothing but a mail-order diploma mill. LaSalle's office was investigated and raided by the FBI, and Thomas Kirk, LaSalle's owner and founder, was found guilty of fraud and sentenced to five years in federal prison. Kirk earned millions of dollars from people looking to obtain fraudulent college degrees at a discount rate with little or no actual course work required.

Calls to Gelb's office by people trying to verify his education were not returned, and one internet sleuth even went as far as to check the master registry of Ph.D. dissertations and could find no information on a doctorate thesis authored by Edward Gelb.

Should "Doctor" Gelb really be addressed as "Dr. Bogus"? Is the man who claims to be the master at detecting the deception of others really a master of public and profession deception himself?

There are six experts who believe Patsy Ramsey wrote the note, two of whom are experts Gideon Epstein and Cina Wong, who said they were "100 percent certain" Mrs. Ramsey wrote the ransom note.

Also Correspondent Raj Chohan of CBS affiliate KCNC reports that handwriting expert Chet Ubowski of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation has appeared for a second day before the Boulder County grand jury hearing evidence in the homicide case. Ubowski had concluded earlier in the investigation that the note was not written by the slain girl's father John Ramsey, but could have been written by JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey.

BLUECRAB. If you are going to post information, please post ALL of it. It is true that Chet Ubowski ELIMINATED John, but he said that 24 of the 26 letters matched Patsy's handwriting.

And lets not forget Foster, who is renowned. I know that he came out for them in the beginning and had a tete-a-tete with Jameson, but he changed his mind and says Patsy wrote the note . His analysis can be found on the web, along with Darnay Hoffman's expert (this analyis is fascinating) with examples.

And it is interesting to note that out of the people that were tested by the CBI, Patsy is the only one that COULD NOT BE ELIMINATED.

There are I believe3 other handwriting experts who believe Patsy wrote the note.

Personally I don't see how anyone in their RIGHT MIND cannot see that PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE DARN "RANSOM NOTE".
Maybe I should start a new acronym....NHBR. "NOT HOODWINKED BY THE RAMSEYS".
..meaning,those who are still looking for that elusive 'intruder' and supporting the Ramsey's lies,are going to be doing just that for the rest of their lives,while the rest of us who are smart enough not to be fooled by them sit here and know an 'intruder' is never going to be found...because he doesn't exist!!!!!!
And you're completely wasting your time trying to prove he does !!! (where is he,it's been 10 yrs !!!)

 

[Solace]

Personally I don't see how anyone in their RIGHT MIND cannot see that PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE DARN "RANSOM NOTE".
Maybe I should start a new acronym....NHBR. "NOT HOODWINKED BY THE RAMSEYS".
..meaning,those who still look for that elusive 'intruder' and supporting the Ramsey's lies,are going to be doing just that for the rest of their lives,while the rest of us who are smart enough not to be fooled by them sit here and know an 'intruder' is never going to be found...because he doesn't exist!!!!!!

She says it loudly and she says it clear. :clap:

 

[coloradokares]

Personally I don't see how anyone in their RIGHT MIND cannot see that PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE DARN "RANSOM NOTE".
Maybe I should start a new acronym....NHBR. "NOT HOODWINKED BY THE RAMSEYS".
..meaning,those who are still looking for that elusive 'intruder' and supporting the Ramsey's lies,are going to be doing just that for the rest of their lives,while the rest of us who are smart enough not to be fooled by them sit here and know an 'intruder' is never going to be found...because he doesn't exist!!!!!!
And you're completely wasting your time trying to prove he does !!! (where is he,it's been 10 yrs !!!)

:clap:

 

[Veronica10]

Personally I don't see how anyone in their RIGHT MIND cannot see that PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE DARN "RANSOM NOTE".
Maybe I should start a new acronym....NHBR. "NOT HOODWINKED BY THE RAMSEYS".
..meaning,those who are still looking for that elusive 'intruder' and supporting the Ramsey's lies,are going to be doing just that for the rest of their lives,while the rest of us who are smart enough not to be fooled by them sit here and know an 'intruder' is never going to be found...because he doesn't exist!!!!!!
And you're completely wasting your time trying to prove he does !!! (where is he,it's been 10 yrs !!!)

:woohoo: So right on!

She might as well have signed her name to it. Oh, and wasn't it so nice of the intruder to put the pen back in its proper container, what a nice murderer/intruder.

 

[JMO8778]

:woohoo: So right on!

She might as well have signed her name to it. Oh, and wasn't it so nice of the intruder to put the pen back in its proper container, what a nice murderer/intruder.

tidy little critter,wasn't he?!

 

[coloradokares]

tidy little critter,wasn't he?!

or ....she?

 

[BlueCrab]

Let's get something straight here. I too don't believe there was an intruder, but that doesn't automatically mean that Patsy did it. There were at least two other people known to be in the house that night besides Patsy. But Patsy, without any credible evidence against her, was the one targeted early-on as the killer -- largely as the result of Steve Thomas' brazen tricks and lies.

For instance, on June 1 and 2, 1998 the whole world was watching as the nation's professionals, including the FBI and notables such as criminologist Dr. Henry Lee and DNA expert Barry Scheck gathered in Boulder for the BPD's presentation that was intended to prove that Patsy Ramsey likely murdered JonBenet, so that an indictment could then be lodged against her.

Steve Thomas was the main presenter. Item #5 in Thomas' presentation was "The Handwriting Was Patsy's". In front of the group, he deceptively tried to make it appear that, from the results of the CBI's 6 handwriting experts, there is proof that Patsy wrote the ransom note. Here's what Steve Thomas told them:

"The CBI examiners explained that of the 73 person's whose writing had been investigated, there was only one whose writing showed evidence that suggested authorship and had been in the home the night of the killing and could not be eliminated by no less than six document examiners -- Patsy Ramsey."

Thomas had deceptively buried the crucial but innocent-looking phrase "and had been in the home the night of the killing" in the middle of the long and illogically constructed sentence. Actually, the buried crucial phrase limits Thomas' statement to just 3 people, not 73 people.

But the damage was done, and to this day people still falsely believe that Patsy was the only one of 73 suspects tested who could not be eliminated as the writer of the ransom note.

BlueCrab

 

[UKGuy]

BlueCrab,

I agree with your analysis. Any one of the three residents, or a combination thereof may have killed JonBenet.

There is no smoking gun left in Patsy's hand, she may simply be an accessory or accomplice, after the fact, and either John or Burke may have killed JonBenet.

The violence employed against JonBenet suggest a male was directly involved, the references to chronic sexual abuse suggest a sexual motive may be behind her death.

That both parents colluded during the staging and after her death, e.g. amending statements, synchronising events, engaging in media PR, leads me to consider John as the prime candidate for suspect, but Burke cannot be ruled out.



.

 

[JMO8778]

or ....she?

yes,that's it

 

[JMO8778]

Blue, I know that you don't support the intruder theory;I was just speaking in general.I know you can't openly name whom you think did it.Do you think it was more than one person around the same age,or just that person?

 

[Charlie]

Does anyone know where i could find an itemised list off all items the BPD took from the ramsey house as evidence? I'm hoping to see if the xmas lights are on there.

 

[Ames]

Does anyone know where i could find an itemised list off all items the BPD took from the ramsey house as evidence? I'm hoping to see if the xmas lights are on there.

I posted a LONG partial list, on another forum. I can go back, and see if I can find it, if you would like.

 

[Charlie]

I posted a LONG partial list, on another forum. I can go back, and see if I can find it, if you would like.

Thanks for the offer Ames, but i found it on acandyrose.com
The only problem is its handwritten and i cant make out all the items. If u stumble across it in the future let me know.

 

[BlueCrab]

Blue, I know that you don't support the intruder theory;I was just speaking in general.I know you can't openly name whom you think did it.Do you think it was more than one person around the same age,or just that person?

JMO,

IMO there were definitely two and perhaps three perpetrators, one of whom was a Ramsey family member. The third perp would have been a young adult of prosecutable age.

The endless string of lies from the Ramseys prove they have been engaged in a coverup since day one. The only reason the family of a murdered family member would refuse to cooperate and blatantly lie during the police investigation is if another family member was involved in the crime.

BlueCrab

 

[JMO8778]

JMO,

IMO there were definitely two and perhaps three perpetrators, one of whom was a Ramsey family member. The third perp would have been a young adult of prosecutable age.

The endless string of lies from the Ramseys prove they have been engaged in a coverup since day one. The only reason the family of a murdered family member would refuse to cooperate and blatantly lie during the police investigation is if another family member was involved in the crime.

BlueCrab

I agree with that;I don't rule out either PR or JR though...do you think the young adult is someone related to the family as well???I don't know if I can say who it might have been here,but he was thought to be seen walking across the yard that day.

 

[BBB167893]

Thomas had deceptively buried the crucial but innocent-looking phrase "and had been in the home the night of the killing" in the middle of the long and illogically constructed sentence. Actually, the buried crucial phrase limits Thomas' statement to just 3 people, not 73 people.

Your point is well-made on its face, but that small-buried, you call it-sentence might sum it up more than people realize.

 

[Eagle1]

Do we have a source for the exact words "across the yard"? Because at times I've wondered if whoever it was may have passed on by right on the sidewalk. But then he would have gotten closer to Barnhill and would have been obligated to say hello, right?

 

[Solace]

JMO,

In addition to the two male children whom I suspect as the perpetrators, one of them a Ramsey, I don't think the young adult perpetrator, if there was one, was a Ramsey family member. The young person seen walking across the yard that day by neighbor Joe Barnhill was probably someone who looked like JAR, but JAR has what appears to be an ironclad alibi. He was in Atlanta.

However, due to the highly suspicious behaviors of the Stine family following the murder, I think DS and NI should both be thoroughly investigated. They both became suspects in my book due to their conspicuous absence from publicity. The absence seemes to be professionally managed. For instance, even though they both were important parts of JonBenet's life, it looks like their names were hurriedly deleted from author Larry Schiller's book PMPT after the investigative grand jury, following 13 months of interviews and investigations, was permanently adjourned in October of 1999 and a court gag order was slapped on the case. The public knows very little about them except for that which I have written about them on this forum.

BlueCrab

This case is as it appears - a rage killing by a mother and a staging abetted by the father. Berke had nada to do with this and that is further proved by his saying to his father "what did you find" and "what can I do".

He had nothing to do with it. All the theories in the world will not make it so. The problem with these Boards is that the outlandish theories come about and persist and as untrue as they might seem, they still persist. He DID NOT DO IT. He was 9, and he did not know what is happening that morning. He did what he was told to do. That is it, nothing more. Sorry.

 

[icedtea4me]

However, due to the highly suspicious behaviors of the Stine family following the murder, I think DS and NI should both be thoroughly investigated. They both became suspects in my book due to their conspicuous absence from publicity. The absence seemes to be professionally managed. For instance, even though they both were important parts of JonBenet's life, it looks like their names were hurriedly deleted from author Larry Schiller's book PMPT after the investigative grand jury, following 13 months of interviews and investigations, was permanently adjourned in October of 1999 and a court gag order was slapped on the case. The public knows very little about them except for that which I have written about them on this forum.

BlueCrab

Doug Stine's name was not hurriedly deleted from Schiller's PMPT as it is in the pb's index.


-Tea