sub shows Brokeback Mtn to 8th graders

[southcitymom]

Thanks to everyone for their heartfelt opinions on this topic. It can be a difficult one, to be sure - people have very strong convictions surrounding this issue, but I feel we only benefit from open loving dialogue.

Once again, I get that warm fuzzy feeling in my heart that we WSers are often able to discusses loaded subjects with kindness and respect. In the end, that's what it's about anyway.

 

[Nova]

Your apology is accepted and if I hurt you in anyway please forgive me. I truly just like a good discussion.

The problem I see personally about the sex education is it doesn't need to be taught in that format and understanding. It should be about intimantcy, honor, purity and relationships. The foundation needs to be laid before you get to the actual act, and jumping to it without teaching the good fundamental foundations that God instructs just leads to sorrow eventually, not always appearing in the beginning but it does eventually show it's ugly dark head.

You did not hurt me at all, Kool. As always I enjoy exchanging views with you and I didn't think anything you said was any sort of attack on me.

I would agree with you about sex ed... in a perfect world. But even coming from my very devout and religious family (who sincerely tried to address the topic of sex, BTW), I still got most of my info from locker rooms.

Schools have a responsibility to educate children on the facts, even if the subject is controversial. And parents, of course, have every obligation to impart moral values (even when I disagree with those values).

If either party drops the ball, children WILL educate one another. And sadly, some of the "lessons" are actual STDs and pregnancy.

P.S. to sherri: I absolutely agree parents are obligated to teach their children morality. But I think schools have an obligation in that department, as well. Otherwise, there is little to counter views such as your father's (and mine). Where there is a conflict between what parents teach and what the school teaches, the child will eventually make up her mind for herself.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I would really like to interview that sub personally to try and figure out what the motive was. Has anybody read any further information concerning the sub? Why was she even showing a movie at all? Where did the movie come from? She may have thought honestly that it was just a good movie and thought she was befriending the students in showing them a movie she thought would entertain them.

It's sad, but she may not have seen anything wrong with what she did till it was brought to her attention and others. I have seen people that haven't matured mentally and really not recognize they have done something wrong in matters like this.

 

[IrishMist]

I would really like to interview that sub personally to try and figure out what the motive was. Has anybody read any further information concerning the sub? Why was she even showing a movie at all? Where did the movie come from? She may have thought honestly that it was just a good movie and thought she was befriending the students in showing them a movie she thought would entertain them.

It's sad, but she may not have seen anything wrong with what she did till it was brought to her attention and others. I have seen people that haven't matured mentally and really not recognize they have done something wrong in matters like this.

That was my opinion, though, admittedly, without much to back it up. I think she was trying to be the "cool" sub. Wanting to be a buddy instead of an adult.

It's something that I see far too often, and it saddens me.

 

[Nova]

I would really like to interview that sub personally to try and figure out what the motive was. Has anybody read any further information concerning the sub? Why was she even showing a movie at all? Where did the movie come from? She may have thought honestly that it was just a good movie and thought she was befriending the students in showing them a movie she thought would entertain them.

It's sad, but she may not have seen anything wrong with what she did till it was brought to her attention and others. I have seen people that haven't matured mentally and really not recognize they have done something wrong in matters like this.

True. Or maybe it was something she wanted to watch and also a way to keep the kids occupied (or so she thought).

 

[Ntegrity]

Of course you have the right to teach her that.

Just like your father had the right to teach you to hate blacks.

Is that what she said? It's not the way I read it. You can be opposed to interracial marriage without hating blacks. My parents felt the same way but only one of them hated blacks.

 

[IrishMist]

Is that what she said? It's not the way I read it. You can be opposed to interracial marriage without hating blacks. My parents felt the same way but only one of them hated blacks.

In another post she mentioned that her father belonged to the KKK. (As does mine)

I made an assumption about his opinion of blacks based on that.

If I am wrong, my apologies to Sherri.

 

[Ntegrity]

Holy chit. I missed that. Thanks!

 

[IrishMist]

Holy chit. I missed that. Thanks!

No problem. Thanks for pointing it out, as it gave me an opportunity to clarify.

 

[Nova]

Is that what she said? It's not the way I read it. You can be opposed to interracial marriage without hating blacks. My parents felt the same way but only one of them hated blacks.

Sorry, but I don't think so. Unless you are black and hate interracial marriage because you hate whites.

There's really no reason to have an opinion on interracial marriage unless you have some sort of problem. (And yes I know, everyone who says they are against it claims to be "only worried about the resulting children.")

 

[KOOL LOOK]

That was my opinion, though, admittedly, without much to back it up. I think she was trying to be the "cool" sub. Wanting to be a buddy instead of an adult.

It's something that I see far too often, and it saddens me.

Irish, I agree, she may very well have wanted to be cool and thought this would be a good way to do it.

Oops, I just remembered the comment made about what goes on in Mrs. Burbacks class stays in it. I would need to know what prompted that kind of response out of the sub to the students.

Nova I agree with ya too.
I had several subs when I was growing up that did that very thing, just ignored the class room and let us talk the entire time. Or just give us busy work, nothing to do with the classroom curriculum, like they were just sitting.

I often say this about parenting too. Some parents just sit and tend to the child when they absolutely have to. Which is a big difference in loving, raising and nurturing a child into developmental stages.

In South Carolina, like an earlier poster commented, it doesn't take but I think a 2 week course to get sub licenses. I know of a teacher who subbed for about 7 years at a public elementary school and they gave her a teachers certificate. Now she was truly committed to educating the children though. Very hands on.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

Being honest here and off topic. Not that it was taught to me, I had parents that allowed me to grow up without prejudices.

I didn't believe in inter-racial marriages for a long long time, till I read the Bible and my eyes were opened widely.

Moses was married to a Caaninite woman, who was dark skin. And God loveddddddddddd Moses. Actually, God got angry with Moses and sought to kill him due to dis-obedience and because of his wife Zepporah and her actions God spared his life.

As I said earlier, the church has been spiritually dead, biased and hate filled for years. Only in the recent past years has this spirit been rebuked and lifted off the church and the spirit of the Lord saturating the church.

 

[Ntegrity]

Sorry, but I don't think so. Unless you are black and hate interracial marriage because you hate whites.

There's really no reason to have an opinion on interracial marriage unless you have some sort of problem. (And yes I know, everyone who says they are against it claims to be "only worried about the resulting children.")

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. My mom absolutely didn't hate blacks. As a child, her best friend was black and I never heard her comment on anyone's skin color -- BUT she was totally against interracial marriage.

I would like to say that I've learned alot on this thread and I'm glad everyone has remained (pretty) respectful. I plan to get the book "What the Bible has to say about homosexuality" and look forward to reading it. I won't get "The Red Tent" since it's a fictional work.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. My mom absolutely didn't hate blacks. As a child, her best friend was black and I never heard her comment on anyone's skin color -- BUT she was totally against interracial marriage.

I would like to say that I've learned alot on this thread and I'm glad everyone has remained (pretty) respectful. I plan to get the book "What the Bible has to say about homosexuality" and look forward to reading it. I won't get "The Red Tent" since it's a fictional work.

Good idea, and if you haven't already, do read the Bible concerning homosexuality, no human arthor can give you a revelation concerning Gods word as good as God. But material is always helpful in getting a bigger understanding.

There are so many dimensions, dark sides concerning this subject that is often not known or discussed. Just like adultery, etc... the real pain and suffering is not often told concerning these type of immoral sexual sins.

I believe if people knew and could see more into the consequences of these behaviors and choices they would reconsider some of their actions. The damage is far greater than we know and it always comes back to revisit us.

 

[angelmom]

I would like to say that I've learned alot on this thread and I'm glad everyone has remained (pretty) respectful. I plan to get the book "What the Bible has to say about homosexuality" and look forward to reading it. I won't get "The Red Tent" since it's a fictional work.

ITA that this has been an interesting thread, and I'm very impressed that it hasn't gotten closed.

If you skip The Red Tent it will be your loss. It's a fantastic book, one of my favorites of all time, and a really interesting (if fictional) perspective on the story of Rachael and Leah. It seems to be well researched, and is also a great read. Everyone I know who has read it, both believers and non, have loved it. One woman I know even went back to church after reading it. Powerful stuff.

 

[Marthatex]

Kook Look, I certainly didn't mean to burden you.

And if I have inadvertently misstated your views, I will be happy to have you set me straight (pun intended).

I'm sorry; it's getting late tonight, but that gave me a chuckle.

AM, the Red Tent is really a great book IMO; it's a very popular reading club book, but really made me think about what it was like back in Biblical times.

The author is Anita Diamonte

Historical fiction can often be very well researched and quite accurate; Many books in the Bible are also "historical fiction"; they are a particular person's perception of what happened, sometimes in the past. The books of the Bible often contradict each other, and are often just one or a few persons' perspective. The Psalms are completely different from other parts of the Bible; the New Testment is very different from part of the Old. The Ten Commandments are almost Universal; to me it is dangerous to take the Bible completely "literally". It may be interpreted as something the writer didn't intend at all. I see it as a "Great Guide Book" for us all; or some may even feel they can be moral without the Bible. (Agnostics)

To me, to really know the Bible is like taking a major college course and doing alot of theological and historical study, or studying it heavily at Church with a good teacher, of course. There are many different interpretations depending on your particular Protestant Sect - Lutheran, Methodist, or Baptist for instance. Catholicism is a whole 'nother religion, Judaism is based heavily on the Old Testament. The Amish have their strict religion. Many religions have common tenets.

Above all, I personally believe in trying to be tolerant of different religions, unless I feel they are really harmful to others. (Scientology for instance) How does this relate to homosexuality? Because we judge it by something we "think" someone said in the Bible, and that is the word of God. As Nova explained, this is probably misinterpreted and downright contradicted in other parts of the Bible, according to how we interpret those passages. The Bible is something that can be argued from morning to night; I know because I listened to my Baptist Grandfather argue with my Methodist Father ALL NIGHT LONG.

OK, I'd better be quiet now.

 

[Masterj]

Sorry, but I don't think so. Unless you are black and hate interracial marriage because you hate whites.

There's really no reason to have an opinion on interracial marriage unless you have some sort of problem. (And yes I know, everyone who says they are against it claims to be "only worried about the resulting children.")

Nova, I had no idea you know my father!

 

[southcitymom]

In another post she mentioned that her father belonged to the KKK. (As does mine)

I made an assumption about his opinion of blacks based on that.

If I am wrong, my apologies to Sherri.

Wow, Irish. Where were you raised if you don't mind me asking?

My great great grandfather was Secretary of the Confederacy during part of the Civil War, so - as you can imagine - I was raised in a family with strong views on race relations in the South!

My grandmother and grandfather called the African Americans who helped them keep house and yard, the "servants" - not a very far cry from slaves, is it?

As I got older, I started to realize the subtle and not so subtle racism my parents and other elders embraced. It never bled off onto me or my sisters and for that I am deeply grateful.

 

[sherri79]

In another post she mentioned that her father belonged to the KKK. (As does mine)

I made an assumption about his opinion of blacks based on that.

If I am wrong, my apologies to Sherri.

you are correct. my father hated every1. gay black Jewish asian catholic....

 

[sherri79]

Of course you have the right to teach her that.

Just like your father had the right to teach you to hate blacks.

that is sorta my point. even if my morals are wrong does a teacher have the right to ignore them? i am sure a teacher would think it is wrong if i taught my child to be a bigot but can she moraly work against that? 50 years ago you still had teachers who thought you shold seperate the races with sudents whose parents did not agree. no teacher ever stepped up and taught me what a dumb a$$ my father was. if you teach a child to think for their self they will find the right path most the time. if more time was spent on teaching children to do what nova and i did today then i feel the kids would be better off. teach a child to show respect for others and to enjoy the very act of learning and let them find their own path. be lazy and pop i a tape and teach them to sue.