Suffolk homicide chief: New look at Gilgo - Newsday article 3/9/12

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  • #81
I don't know about anybody else, but, I'm going with the definition that bessie The Moderator provided us from the FBI regarding the definition of "serial killer".

How we want to define "serial killer" is irrelevant and counterproductive, IMO.

Thanks for the great link bessie!
 
  • #82
Guys,
I hate to burst bubbles but there is a very good chance that none of these cases have ANYTHING to do with LISK. HEroin....it is an epeidemic on LI and needs to be stopped. Mob BUrial ground....that dude confessed himself. The madam case....they were after a banker. Sorry but LE is looking at other cases besides LISK.
 
  • #83
Guys,
I hate to burst bubbles but there is a very good chance that none of these cases have ANYTHING to do with LISK. HEroin....it is an epeidemic on LI and needs to be stopped. Mob BUrial ground....that dude confessed himself. The madam case....they were after a banker. Sorry but LE is looking at other cases besides LISK.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Could you please clarify?
 
  • #84
In THIS particular case and thread that came from it the definition (IMO) means a person that kills at least 2 people for the pure pleasure of doing so for some unknown mental condition.

Funny, but I just met a long lost cousin in Queens not hours ago. She recoginzed me and I had to focus. Her brother was what we commonly know as a SK. Her brother was my cousin's son. I knew the guy when he was in short pants. He was always screwy and an accident waiting to happen.Gentle as a lamb most times and turned into a killer when his mind went haywire. He really couldn't remember the gals he killed. HE WAS A REAL SERIAL KILLER.

Sam Gravano admitted to killing 19 people. IMO, he was not a serial killer, just a prolific killer with no conscience.

SCPD has taken a big knock for 'allowing' these murders to occur and taking a bigger knock for not solving them. As a former detective that has spent many hours and words knocking SCPD this isn't one of them. Irony of this story is the SCPD did TOO GOOD a job in finding the bodies. Had they not done an extraordinary job of looking for Shannan Gilbert those bodies would still be there until they rotted to dust and never to be found. You can call that a classic case of: NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.

In the NYPD we found many dead bodies of prostitutes dropped in desolate places. I can tell you the crime scene was limited to a very tight circle. We didn't know what we would find if we looked further......and we didn't want to know unless we had somebody to put in handcuffs.

My guess is if there was a way to find the bodies that have been dumped in desolate places it would number in the hundreds over the years in the 5 Boros and LI.

It is still my opinion that the 4 bodies in the burlap bags are victims of sex slave traders. IMHO.
 
  • #85
bessie The Moderator provided us with the definitions of "serial killer" and "Criminal Enterprise" for This particular thread.
 
  • #86
I just read the appeal from
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, RESPONDENT,
v.
THOMAS RYAN, APPELLANT

getting ready to read

THE PEOPLE, ETC., RESPONDENT,
v.
MICHAEL QUARTARARO, APPELLANT

I'll see after I read the confession what to make of all this. It is a slow LISK day, so I will take the time to read it all.

You will find a scathing decision issued by federal judge Korman regarding the Quartararo Case. I believe it was that decision that led to the 2nd Circuit Court's decision.

Judge Korman's decision was just short of an indictment of the DA and SCPD handling of the case. The judge went into the conflicted testimony of Burke saying MQ told him all that he did was to put the bike against the tree. Judge Korman went further and said that testimony was conflicted by the testimony of Pius Sr when he testifed he found the bike under some leaves and HE placed it against the tree.

Do you want an interesting tidbit on this case? Suffolk County Judge Stuart Namm had one of the cases in this murder of Pius. He believes there were errors in that case. He must have believed that because the Judge and his wife had lunch with MQ when he got out of prison.
 
  • #87
If they can get the "Mom Madame's" book or enough of her women to start talking then you can be assured that the cookie will start to crumble.

These cases are very likely linked to some type of organized crime, IMO yet the killer/killer's comes/come with their own set of psychopathology.

Even if it is just a matter of the guys/drivers/pimps/enforcers being recruited to then recruit/lure girls and women into the profession, there could be a sadist/predator within or on the perimeter of the larger ranks.

Akeem Cruz, MW's BF/Pimp could probably be a wealth of information as well.

...more info on the heroin bust. A News Conference is scheduled for later today.
http://online.wsj.com/article/AP9489fc83ba1f4c67812588b02b7469e3.html

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ml+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

So far, only one name is mentioned: ringleader, Jose Perez, 26

This could be huge!
 
  • #88
THE GOOD JUDGE was once the darling of the SCPD Homicide Squad. He was told that by none other than Tom Spota.

It was Judge Namm that couldn't take the misconduct and corruption of the SCPD and DA, and wrote the letter to Gov Mario Cuomo asking for an investigation into that misconduct. His career on the bench ended after that when his own party refused to endorse him for re-election.

Read the SIC Report. You will see the name of Spota being mentioned in that report for misconduct while a private attorney. You willl even see the Pius Case being noted as misconduct on the part of the DA and SCPD. Some of the same people beign regurgitated to this very day.

The then SIC commissioner David Trager, now the recently deceased federal judge Trager said at the conclusion of the SIC report was if things weren't fixed and fixed fast in Suffolk County the whole entire CJS could be infected. No truer words have ever been spoken.

Say what you want about Steve Levy but he recognized there was a serious problem with SCPD and tried to fix it. He got rid of those detectives and their supervisors that refused to come out for the Lucero murder because they had their 2 hour OT stand by perk taken away from them. Now must have them are back in Homicide and it is like it never happened.

Fresh Look. Don't make me laugh.
 
  • #89
respectfully snipped
You will find a scathing decision issued by federal judge Korman regarding the Quartararo Case. I believe it was that decision that led to the 2nd Circuit Court's decision.

Judge Korman's decision was just short of an indictment of the DA and SCPD handling of the case. The judge went into the conflicted testimony of Burke saying MQ told him all that he did was to put the bike against the tree. Judge Korman went further and said that testimony was conflicted by the testimony of Pius Sr when he testifed he found the bike under some leaves and HE placed it against the tree.

See court's remarks found under this heading at the link:
2. O'Leary's Failure to Object to the Prosecutor's Summation

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=1988891679FSupp212_1863.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006
 
  • #90
every week I watch Criminal Minds - a great and entertaining show. But in all my years in the NYPD have I ever recalled a case their BAU solved. NEVER!
Speaking of profiling... here is what John Douglas (retired FBI profiler) has to say about criminal profiling. ( link )

That said, is/can criminal profiling be useful? I have mixed feelings... as someone who studied forensic psychology, which included the topic of criminal profiling. Most forensic psychology researchers relegate criminal profiling to the corners of their profession. Some even scoff at the idea. Not surprisingly.

I do think geographical profiling has promise. That is, if they can figure out how to get it right. Imo, Rossmo's formula falls sadly short of the mark. Even though he attempts to account for travel distance as opposed to as the crow flies distance, by relying upon the Manhattan distance.

Imho, the primary problem with geographical profiling involves some assumptions upon which it is based (i.e., comfort zones, revisiting dump sites, & willingness and ability to travel x-miles to both acquire a victim and dump said victim). To some degree, these are canned assumptions that not only can be wrong but can send LE in the completely wrong direction.

All things considered, and, again, imho, at best, we know that people are creatures of habit. And even if some killers attempt to deviate from daily habits, there is a fairly high probability that they'll fall into habits of another sort.

The key, of course, to all of this, involves narrowing the suspect pool, as opposed to actually identifying a suspect. The latter, imo, still requires old-fashioned on the ground gum-shoeing.

And finally welcome aboard. Glad to see you decided to participate in the, sometimes lively, discussions.
 
  • #91
I THINK we should get our definitions straight about what WE want to call a serial killer. I think we won't have a problem agreeing that a serial killer is more like a person that kills many and does it for the pleasure of doing so.

a lot of people kill a lot of other people and it doesn't make for a serial killer as most of us understand it.

It has pretty much always been my belief that the four gals found in the burlap bags are the victims of a sex ring. the gals get bothersome - they die. Recruiting or forcing woman into bondage is as easy as going to Craigslist or Backpage and making a date. The gals have to call back otherwise they can't operate. so many gals out there you can afford to kill the problem children.
Imo, the primary problem with this theory are the phone calls to Melissa's little sister. Why would traffickers call the sister, lead her on to believe Melissa was alive, as well as describing torturing her, and eventually, murdering her?

While I, personally, believe there may be a trafficking angle, I do not think, in this case, it involves traffickers "getting rid of the troubled children."

I am thinking, outlier, here. In this scenario, traffickers may have procured the girls for sex parties, and one of the attendees was/is an outlier... someone who abducted the girls after the party, kept them for a protracted period to act out his brand of violence upon them, eventually murdered them, and dumped them along Ocean Parkway.

Of course, the above is but one scenario I have considered. It's def not carved in stone.
 
  • #92
Imo, the primary problem with this theory are the phone calls to Melissa's little sister. Why would traffickers call the sister, lead her on to believe Melissa was alive, as well as describing torturing her, and eventually, murdering her?

While I, personally, believe there may be a trafficking angle, I do not think, in this case, it involves traffickers "getting rid of the troubled children."

I am thinking, outlier, here. In this scenario, traffickers may have procured the girls for sex parties, and one of the attendees was/is an outlier... someone who abducted the girls after the party, kept them for a protracted period to act out his brand of violence upon them, eventually murdered them, and dumped them along Ocean Parkway.

Of course, the above is but one scenario I have considered. It's def not carved in stone.

I absolutely agree with you, in so much as the GB4 and AC4 are concerned. This was not the work of traffickers, imo. Manorville, on the other hand...reeks of "low level gang" violence to me.

JMO
 
  • #93
Imo, the primary problem with this theory are the phone calls to Melissa's little sister. Why would traffickers call the sister, lead her on to believe Melissa was alive, as well as describing torturing her, and eventually, murdering her?

While I, personally, believe there may be a trafficking angle, I do not think, in this case, it involves traffickers "getting rid of the troubled children."

I am thinking, outlier, here. In this scenario, traffickers may have procured the girls for sex parties, and one of the attendees was/is an outlier... someone who abducted the girls after the party, kept them for a protracted period to act out his brand of violence upon them, eventually murdered them, and dumped them along Ocean Parkway.

Of course, the above is but one scenario I have considered. It's def not carved in stone.

The phone calls from the victim's phone. That is what makes it so interesting. Absorb the information but don't try to put any logic to it.
 
  • #94
Profiling? There is a classic case where an innocent man spent 16 years in jail due in part due to a profile. Jeffrey Deskovic is that person. Do a google and find him. He now has his own Innocence Foundation.
 
  • #95
We were told Ms.Gilbert made a 911 call from her cell phone from a home she sought assistance. We know she ran out of the house. And we now know she was found in the weeds about 1/2 mile away from that home.

Where did her cell phone go missing.
Did it go missing
Was the taunting calls made from another phone Gilbert owned.
why would the killer expose himself to arrest by calling the family
Was it a diversion
Why make the calls from one of the most populated areas in NYS.

I ask these questions so you can get a sense of it all. the sense of it all is it DOESN'T have to make sense. It only has to make sense to the person that did it.
 
  • #96
LOGIC TO HOMICIDES - THERE ARE NONE IN MANY CASES. We had a double homicide that was unique to even NYPD detectives. A screwball is invited for dinner at the home of two older <modsnip>. The SB believes the <modsnip> made his father a homosexual. They have dinner and he kills them both. Chops off both their heads. Puts one headless body in a rocking chair and places both heads in the lap of that body. The other guy is on the floor next to the chair. For some reason the killer places the guy's chopped off pinky under the dead guy's arm.

We get there and the TV is on to the World Series. Some of the guys are fascinated by the pinky under the arm thing. I never give it a thought. What I do understand is there is a screwball running loose.

Within 24 hours we catch the screwball. He tells us he put the pinky under the arm because he knew it would drive us crazy - not me, but he was right. He put the heads in the chair on the lap of one of the dead guys because he knew they were big baseball fans and he didn't want them to miss the World Series.

The point of the story is not to infer anything until you think you know everything - and still you are probably wrong.
 
  • #97
LOGIC TO HOMICIDES - THERE ARE NONE IN MANY CASES. We had a double homicide that was unique to even NYPD detectives. A screwball is invited for dinner at the home of two older Queens. The SB believes the Queens made his father a homosexual. They have dinner and he kills them both. Chops off both their heads. Puts one headless body in a rocking chair and places both heads in the lap of that body. The other guy is on the floor next to the chair. For some reason the killer places the guy's chopped off pinky under the dead guy's arm.

We get there and the TV is on to the World Series. Some of the guys are fascinated by the pinky under the arm thing. I never give it a thought. What I do understand is there is a screwball running loose.

Within 24 hours we catch the screwball. He tells us he put the pinky under the arm because he knew it would drive us crazy - not me, but he was right. He put the heads in the chair on the lap of one of the dead guys because he knew they were big baseball fans and he didn't want them to miss the World Series.

The point of the story is not to infer anything until you think you know everything - and still you are probably wrong.

Your posts remind of this quote....."The biggest mistake in trying to figure out why these people are this way is that we try to analyze them through our own standard of behavior. They don't think the way you or I think. We're not sure why-but the point is they don't."~ Jim Wright, FBI Behavior Sciences Unit
 
  • #98
We were told Ms.Gilbert made a 911 call from her cell phone from a home she sought assistance. We know she ran out of the house. And we now know she was found in the weeds about 1/2 mile away from that home.

Where did her cell phone go missing.
Did it go missing
Was the taunting calls made from another phone Gilbert owned.

why would the killer expose himself to arrest by calling the family
Was it a diversion
Why make the calls from one of the most populated areas in NYS.

I ask these questions so you can get a sense of it all. the sense of it all is it DOESN'T have to make sense. It only has to make sense to the person that did it.

Which calls are you referring to?
 
  • #99
respectfully snipped


See court's remarks found under this heading at the link:
2. O'Leary's Failure to Object to the Prosecutor's Summation

http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=1988891679FSupp212_1863.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006

You do realize that the same Det.Palumbo that worked on the Pius case and screwed it up to a fare-thee-well is the same Palumbo that has been hired on by Spota in his Investigations Bureau. That Palumbo served under one James Burke, or until Burke got himself appointed as SCPD Chief of Department.

No, I am not making this stuff up. All that is needed is for the folks to understand how outrageous this really is.
 
  • #100
Which calls are you referring to?

AN UNKNOWN PERSON USED Shannon's cell phone to call her family and taunt them. Said calls seemed to be originating from the midtown bus terminal area, or was it Penn Station. That was discovered when the SCPD asked NYPD to do whatever they do to trace the origin of the calls.

It just adds another dimension to the story that is without any real answers.

Just hope the cops are patient and not running amok with their own theories and doing so without keeping an open mind.
 
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