SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[SmoothOperator]

I have attempted to keep up with and actually read all posts leading up to the court's decision made in the 10 and 11 o'clock hours here locally(CST time) yesterday all the way through the present time.. That said due to the thread having moved fairly fast at times yesterday I easily could have missed where this has already been thoroughly discussed.. If indeed it has already, please forgive my bringing it up again..

My concerns with the verdicts of 17 years ago being upheld yesterday.. Meaning the three are found guilty of the murders of Stevie, Michael, and Christopher.. And the point that I have seen made numerous times in these last 24 hours of hopes that some new found evidence that will come to light at some point(I believe one described that time as when the dust settles)..

My concern is how exactly could anyone ever even possibly be tried for the murders of these 3 young victims(as some have stated they hoped would happen) when according to the state of Arkansas's court of law there are already 3 individuals literally now twice over found to be all guilty of those murders(7 counts guilty of 1st degree murder and 2 counts guilty of 2nd degree murder[the 2 counts of 2nd degree for Misskelly]).. I cannot fathom how this could be even a possibility if and when the "real" killer(s) are located???

I mean I guess I could see where additional perpetrators could be tried for the murders as in on top of the three already convicted of the murders that it was found that there were other individuals found to be involved as well in the murders(as in involved along with the trio already found to be guilty of the murders)..

But IMO that is more than even the term "far fetched" can even encompass??

I am no lawyer, nor do I claim to know the ends and outs of our intricate justice system and court procedures.. Thus why I question how this could even be a possibility.. Or even a hope for that matter when according to our justice system and our court of law there are already three men found to be guilty of those murders???

(if as I said this has already been thoroughly discussed would someone please point me to the posts where it was discussed or ATLEAST a general area or time in which this subject was discussed and/or explained)..

**Thanks in advance to anyone who may have knowledge or know where to point me to find the answers to my questions regarding anyone being tried in the future for these murders.

 

[Cappuccino]

I would have to think the defense would want some of the evidence preserved if they will go forward in proving innocence? :twocents:

Obviously, but there's no rumour I know of that says the defense is destroying evidence. The claim was made that the police and prosecutors were planning to order the disposal of evidence, and if that was true it would be logical enough because as far as the police/prosecutors are concerned the case is done and dusted.

 

[claudicici]

I'm sure you know the new found evidence came to light back in 2007.
We all know who needs to be investigated.
That among other things is why this outcome is so unfair to the victims of this crime ,the victims families and the WM3.Yes,they are free and I'm happy but this cannot be over.The case is not closed !!!

 

[guardangel]

Damien stated that he blew the victims' families a kiss out of anger.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/damien1.html
This means he was taunting the families. Google the words "taunted the family" and "killer taunted the family". This behavior is not rare.

Except Damien isn't the killer.
The real killer(s) hopefully will be found soon.

 

[Pensfan]

It was posted on here somewhere that DE wrote in his book that he was forced to "go cold turkey" off his meds once incarcerated in Arkansas. I can't find any documentation to support this.

The psychiatrist hired by the defense to assess if DE was legally incompetent said DE had not received treatment for his mental illness since his incarceration. This doesn't mean DE was forced to go "cold turkey" off his medications. This likely meant that DE refused to take his medication. Since DE's defense attorney was going to pay a psychiatrist to interview DE to assess if he was legally insane, it was to DE's benefit if he was experiencing delusions when he underwent his mental status examination. This physician determined that DE was experiencing grandiose and persecutory delusions, auditory and visual hallucinations, disordered thought processes, substantial lack of insight, and chronic, incapacitating mood swings.

This case, Singleton v Norris, states that death row inmates in Arkansas are given their psychiatric medication and, in fact, they can be forced to take it.
http://www.law.uconn.edu/system/files/private/depanfilis.pdf

 

[guardangel]

Seclusion.. Wonder if they'll go to Ohio and all don Ohio State gear shopping in Old Navy?? And have pix and video emerge for monetary gain??

Explain your post, tia.

These men deserve monetary gain. I hope either the state or someone wealthy gives these innocent money so they can enjoy their freedom from muckrackers and the very much alive naysayers and witchhunters who want the hunt to continue.

Maybe Johnny Depp will take them to his island.

 

[guardangel]

Henry Alford him was charged with murder.

hu? ///////////////////

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes, and also blowing a kiss "out of anger" is not the same thing as taunting the family. There was a fair amount of abuse being thrown at Damien by some family members, he reacted with anger. Not at all the same thing as "taunting" which is done cold bloodedly, and for amusement.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I have attempted to keep up with and actually read all posts leading up to the court's decision made in the 10 and 11 o'clock hours here locally(CST time) yesterday all the way through the present time.. That said due to the thread having moved fairly fast at times yesterday I easily could have missed where this has already been thoroughly discussed.. If indeed it has already, please forgive my bringing it up again..

My concerns with the verdicts of 17 years ago being upheld yesterday.. Meaning the three are found guilty of the murders of Stevie, Michael, and Christopher.. And the point that I have seen made numerous times in these last 24 hours of hopes that some new found evidence that will come to light at some point(I believe one described that time as when the dust settles)..

My concern is how exactly could anyone ever even possibly be tried for the murders of these 3 young victims(as some have stated they hoped would happen) when according to the state of Arkansas's court of law there are already 3 individuals literally now twice over found to be all guilty of those murders(7 counts guilty of 1st degree murder and 2 counts guilty of 2nd degree murder[the 2 counts of 2nd degree for Misskelly]).. I cannot fathom how this could be even a possibility if and when the "real" killer(s) are located???

I mean I guess I could see where additional perpetrators could be tried for the murders as in on top of the three already convicted of the murders that it was found that there were other individuals found to be involved as well in the murders(as in involved along with the trio already found to be guilty of the murders)..

But IMO that is more than even the term "far fetched" can even encompass??

I am no lawyer, nor do I claim to know the ends and outs of our intricate justice system and court procedures.. Thus why I question how this could even be a possibility.. Or even a hope for that matter when according to our justice system and our court of law there are already three men found to be guilty of those murders???

(if as I said this has already been thoroughly discussed would someone please point me to the posts where it was discussed or ATLEAST a general area or time in which this subject was discussed and/or explained)..

**Thanks in advance to anyone who may have knowledge or know where to point me to find the answers to my questions regarding anyone being tried in the future for these murders.

I have been wondering this myself and I do understand most of the ins and outs and procedures. I am not a lawyer either, but I did do 12 years of post conviction work on capital cases as a volunteer paralegal and I am in school right now for Legal Studies and hope to get into a law school in the next year and a half when I graduate. I haven't had a chance to look into the system in AR, and most of my experience is in cases in VA.

If this were to happen in VA, they would have never gotten to where they are in the first place because they would have destroyed the evidence 3 years after conviction, due to the 21 day rule. But if something were found, they would first prosecute the person who did it (if they were going to do that at all, which most likely they wouldn't) and then the Governor would grant an absolute pardon.

In Earl Washington's case, he was granted an absolute pardon by the governor. The DNA matched another man who was in prison on a life sentence for a similar crime. When the people demanded that the real killer be tried and Washington given an apology, they said that they were not going to try him because he was already in prison for life and it would be too traumatic to the victims family to bring it all up again since the guy couldn't get out anyway. All the while, not thinking that it was too traumatic to the victims family to say that they had to let Washington go because the DNA didn't match him, but they still believed that he was guilty and that the victim must have been cheating on her husband with this person who was later convicted of a similar crime.

If they do it like we do it here and evidence comes out that proves for certain who the killer really was, they will not try anyone and the governor will grant an absolute pardon and they will not be compensated or ever be given any restitution because they have already entered the Alford plea. Next week after finals I am going to try to dig around in AR law and see if it is the same (or similar) to VA. I know that no one else has the 21 day rule and those states that have similar rules are not as short. VA's is the shortest in the nation.

 

[guardangel]

BTW, my belief in the manufacturing of evidence is strengthened by the state wanting to destroy the evidence. I think they have something to hide. JMO

Steely Dan, I could just respond to your post with I agree. But they are so good , I like to repost them. You have a SOLID grip on the trial and facts of the WM3.

edited for spelling

 

[guardangel]

It is, but I'd say that particular rumour has some basis, because as far as the State's concerned the case is definitively closed. I don't even see anything sinister about them destroying the remaining evidence, that would be fairly standard practice once a case is over.

:highfive:

 

[SmoothOperator]

Explain your post, tia.

These men deserve monetary gain. I hope either the state or someone wealthy gives these innocent money so they can enjoy their freedom from muckrackers and the very much alive naysayers and witchhunters who want the hunt to continue.

Maybe Johnny Depp will take them to his island.

To clarify my statement about their being taken into seclusion.. It was clearly in reference to another new found freedom defendant of another highly, even more highly media saturated case of the state of Florida vs. Miss Casey Marie Anthony..

Hope that Helps

 

[guardangel]

To clarify my statement about their being taken into seclusion.. It was clearly in reference to another new found freedom defendant of another highly, even more highly media saturated case of the state of Florida vs. Miss Casey Marie Anthony..

Hope that Helps

Thank you, yes that helps.

 

[~n/t~]

Obviously, but there's no rumour I know of that says the defense is destroying evidence. The claim was made that the police and prosecutors were planning to order the disposal of evidence, and if that was true it would be logical enough because as far as the police/prosecutors are concerned the case is done and dusted.

The question was legally the defense can request the evidence not be destroyed, right? Especially if they want to prove innocence. That's one of the reasons they took this deal so they can work on their innocence in the comfort of their own home and not in a prison cell? Or did I misunderstand the reason the plea was requested to begin with? I thought that was the WM3 ultimate goal..........to prove their innocence.

 

[~n/t~]

Yes, and also blowing a kiss "out of anger" is not the same thing as taunting the family. There was a fair amount of abuse being thrown at Damien by some family members, he reacted with anger. Not at all the same thing as "taunting" which is done cold bloodedly, and for amusement.

Heck, if I was face to face with my son's murderer, they'd have to restrain me.

 

[Cappuccino]

The question was legally the defense can request the evidence not be destroyed, right? Especially if they want to prove innocence. That's one of the reasons they took this deal so they can work on their innocence in the comfort of their own home and not in a prison cell? Or did I misunderstand the reason the plea was requested to begin with? I thought that was the WM3 ultimate goal..........to prove their innocence.

How does any of that change with a rumour about the state wanting to dispose of evidence? Even if the rumour is true, I see no one saying that the defense has agreed to it.

Besides, any evidence that the West Memphis police want to dispose of would be the material stored in their evidence room, which would have no relevance to ongoing searches for the murderer anyway. Anything that could be tested is already in the hands of the Bode lab. The boxes of evidence down at the WMPD are copies of old witness statements, lab reports, that kind of thing. Most of it is already scanned and posted on the Callahans site anyway, so I really wouldn't see anything sinister about the West Memphis police saying "Hey, can we throw this stuff away now?"

 

[Cappuccino]

Heck, if I was face to face with my son's murderer, they'd have to restrain me.

If I was wrongfully accused of your son's murder and being escorted into court amid crowds of jeering, catcalls, etc, and you then tried to attack me, I've a feeling I might lose my temper back.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

hu? ///////////////////

Typo. Henry Alford himself was charged with murder.

 

[doubt]

There is no connection, its just the same old "give a dog a bad name and hang him" attitude that has dogged the prosecution and their supporters right from the start. The truth is that even if Damien had full on mooned to the victims families, it wouldn't make his DNA magically show up at the crime scene.

Its sad to see so many fall for Ellington's blatant face saving exercise. The authorities do not release people from Death Row just for pleading guilty, and the prosecution would not have accepted the offer of an Allford plea if they hadn't already been backed into a corner.

so in other words you agree with me.

ok....

 

[Compassionate Reader]

The guards didn't rape him; they only beat him, tossed his cell with no cause, kept him up all night and things like that. I thought he had said they raped him, but it was a fellow inmate. However, the guards were terribly abusive to him.

As to the whole mental illness thing, I believe Damien was misdiagnosed as a psychotic. As has been stated, people don't recover from psychoses. When Damien went off of his medications "cold turkey," he had some bad times. However, he got over it eventually, which is proof to me that he was never psychotic, merely dependent on anti-depressants. I don't ever remember him being diagnosed as manic-depressive (bipolar), but it would not surprise me if he were. That can be controlled with medications.

When I originally posted the statement, I said that it was a rumor that the State wanted to destroy the evidence. I'm not sure where I read it, but I do know that it was a source that I trust and that they reported it was a rumor. I just wish I could remember where. Like was said before, the WMPD screwed up in so many ways, wanting to destroy the evidence is par for the course.

The reason that the possibility that the State might want to destroy evidence bothers me is because it smacks of wanting to hide something. It reminds me of when they were fighting so hard to block further testing. It really makes me wonder what's going on with them. If the evidence were destroyed, it would seriously impact any chance the defense would have to prove innocence, and I think it's unfair.

The West Memphis Three are free, and I am glad. I don't see their freedom as a crime or a miscarriage of justice or anything except the first step on the road to justice. Now, the WMPD should focus on finding THe real killer. I could give them a starting place. So could JMB!