Susan's Boys

[passionflower]

Happy Birthday dear little Charlie...............

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4702031&postcount=68"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - SUSAN POWELL, missing West Valley,UT[/ame]

 

[harleysnana]

As far as we know, the 4 year old has not been interviewed. Not sure any 4 year old statements could be of legal value. And now, as time has passed, the child's statements would be questionable. Regarding the middle of the night trip - I believe the kids were mostly asleep and have little idea what really happened.

I do remember it was said on the news that the 4yr. old was interviewed.

 

[diphi]

I do remember it was said on the news that the 4yr. old was interviewed.

I don't have any expertise in the legalities of the interviews of young children, but common sense would say that if either of the children said anything questionable, the police would consider that in the context of everthing else they do and investigate

I think the children saw something. I also think they believed everything Josh told them (after all, he is their father and the one they look to for EVERYTHING). It made sense to them at the time.

Oh, how careful you must have to be with children....

 

[PickieChickie]

I don't understand why Susan's parents aren't pushing for custody - at least temporary custody. Seems to me there is a basis for her parent's to begin building a case for it; yet, from what I've seen here they just don't seem to be so inclined. There are certainly enough questions that need to be answered - I mean, camping? Really?

I followed the Nancy Cooper case in Cary, NC in which the husband was recently arrested. They had two small children also and her parents were right on top of the custody issue from the get-go. I know the circumstances are different between the two cases, but...I just don't get it.:waitasec:

First of all, let me make it very clear that I do not approve of JP not allowing frequent, ongoing visitations between Susan's parents, Chuck and Judy Cox, nor do I think it is the children's best interest not to have frequent, ongoing contact with Susan's other siblings and cousins who live in Puyallup, Washington.

Having said that, JP is the boy's father and has full legal custody of them and has the right to make any and all decisions concerning where and with whom the boys live and whom they do or do not have contact with.

JP has done nothing that would warrant the children being taken out of his custody and placed in a foster home or with a predesignated, pre-appointed legal guardian.

JP did allow the boys to spend unsupervised time with their grandparents, Chuck and Judy Cox, during the Christmas holiday season. Apparently, JP has decided, or his attorney has advised him, that allowing this contact is not in the best interest of JP.

I am assuming JP did not consult his attorney, prior to allowing the boys to spend unsupervised time with the Cox's, who, upon learning of the visitation, advised JP against allowing any further unsupervised visitations.

I was very surprised and confused when I read the Cox's were allowed to have the boys visit with them at their home without JP being present. I do not think JP's attorney was consulted.

Since the boys were in the Powell's West Valley City home the night JP left to go camping, they may have seen or heard things that would help solve this case. They were, as we all know, with JP between the hours of 12:30 AM, December 7, 2009 until 5:00 PM on Sunday, December 7, 2009. Because of this, it would be fair to assume that the boys, especially the five-year-old, is capable of releasing information that JP and his attorney do not want known.

I remember when I was five years old. I was totally capable of communicating what I saw and heard. So is the oldest boy.

In conclusion, my point is this: JP has done nothing that could justify the boys being removed from his custody, at least nothing that can be proven at this time.

If the Cox's were to file a custody suit, that would start a war between the Powell's and the Cox's which would guarantee JP would not allow them to see the boys while he is present, much less unsupervised.

 

[grayjay]

Does anybody know where the boys were when JP drove several hundred miles in the rental car? Were they with him on this second adventure, or being watched by friends/family?

(Sorry, I don't know how to start a new thread.)

IIRC, they were being watched by his sister.

 

[RubyRed]

This video has been around awhile ,however, well worth watching again, Susan's son is being shielded at the vigil. Then a reporter confronts Josh . Run Josh run. What a loser.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2hZo4Mwlqo&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Doctorwoof]

Here is a snippet from a study conducted on 95 children:

“According to the assessment of the referrers, children living with the assailant’s family (in all cases the father’s) were doing worse in terms of behavioral and emotional problems. Children who had witnessed the homicide also had significantly more behavioral problems, despite having had more therapy. Overall, children living with the victim’s family (all were the mother’s family) were doing better behaviorally and in peer relationships than children in foster care, and both groups were doing better than children with the perpetrator’s (father’s) family.”

It’s from the following paper:

Adult Perspectives on Growing Up Following Uxoricide
Richard H. Steeves
Barbara Parker
University of Virginia

 

[Mesmerized]

Just wanted to give you all some perspective on how bad things have to be before a state will take children from a birth parent, even temporarily.

My friend's ex has a documented history of mental health issues (depression, suicide attempts, abusing meds, etc.). A couple of years ago during the divorce, he spray-painted the 2-story foyer/living room of the former family home black and said that he made it more "kid-friendly" so she might move back in with him.

Recently his visitation was temporarly halted while DCFS investigated him, because the 9 yr old girl told the school social worker that when she and her 7 year old brother are visiting, he locks himself in the bathroom unresponsive, sleeps for hours during the day (so they are unsupervised), and passes out during acitivities like cooking (burning his hand in the flame on the stove). And the most disturbing thing - he told the children on more than one occasion that he wants to die because mommy doesn't love him anymore. (!) He also admitted to the judge in court that he is currently abusing his prescription pain meds. But, DCFS said the children are not in any danger (?), so the temporary order of protection was removed and he got his normal weekend/holiday visitation rights back. (!!!)

Since winter camping is an activity that some outdoorsy people actually do on a regular basis, it is unlikely any judge would remove the boys from JP based on that and mixing up the days of the week. If he is actually charged with or convicted of something, that's a different story...

 

[grayjay]

Since winter camping is an activity that some outdoorsy people actually do on a regular basis, it is unlikely any judge would remove the boys from JP based on that and mixing up the days of the week. If he is actually charged with or convicted of something, that's a different story...

If Susan were here, these things would hold enough weight I think, for her to have custody.

I don't think any serious winter campers buy the story, but I'm one and I also don't want people passing judgment on those of us who do head out fully equipped for a purpose more serious than s'mores which can be made in the microwave.

Testing the generator isn't a good reason to take the boys in the middle of the night when they could stay with mom, because if things didn't go so well, they could be exposed to cold and at the very least discomfort. Also, sleep experts would say between midnight and 2am is the time when people need to be asleep. It would be very different if there was an eclipse and he had a telescope and it was planned.

 

[passionflower]

As Josh remodels the home in Utah, where are the boys?
Did he bring them with him to the house?
Are they in Washington with his song writer father???

 

[UtahMom]

Joshua has taken down the decorations on the house and returned to hiding in the gated community in Puyallup, WA where his father lives.

The boys stayed with his father, Steven Chantrey Powell while Joshua was in Utah working on the house to rent it.

 

[PickieChickie]

Joshua has taken down the decorations on the house and returned to hiding in the gated community in Puyallup, WA where his father lives. The boys stayed with his father, Steven Chantrey Powell while Joshua was in Utah working on the house to rent it.

Does anyone know if anybody helped JP take down the decorations?

 

[Mesmerized]

Back on the topic of the boys...I just saw that a Bob Andrews posted yesterday on the F&F Facebook wall that he got a response from WA attorney Anne Bremner to assist the Cox family in civil matters "regarding custody of the boys and what ever else may come up," pro bono.

That doesn't mean they asked for the assistance or will take her up on her offer, but at least someone is willing to help them.

 

[grayjay]

Back on the topic of the boys...I just saw that a Bob Andrews posted yesterday on the F&F Facebook wall that he got a response from WA attorney Anne Bremner to assist the Cox family in civil matters "regarding custody of the boys and what ever else may come up," pro bono.

That doesn't mean they asked for the assistance or will take her up on her offer, but at least someone is willing to help them.

This could be a case of the civil filings actually being ahead of the criminal ones. I really hope they go for it. A group of attorneys in WA took on a pro bono cause for my family one time and did an excellent job because they felt strongly about the issues involved. :woohoo:

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Very interesting article, Seattle Headlines Examiner:

"On Jan. 11 Josh moved his two young boys to his hometown of Puyallup, Washington to live with his father, Steven Powell. According to Jennifer Graves, Josh's sister, their two brothers and one sister, the youngest being 24, also live in the home and are all currently unemployed."

<<snip>>

"Debbie Caldwell, who cared for Susan's kids before she went missing, told Examiner, "I am concerned that Josh is not respecting Susan's wishes when it comes to the influence and care of his children. I remember a time when Susan and Josh traveled to Washington on vacation. Josh suggested they leave the kids alone with Steven for a few days but Susan strongly objected and did not allow it."

"He's taken the kids away from their support system," Debbie said, "And I personally believe he's made the wrong choice for Charlie and Braden."

<<snip>>

"Debbie said she went to deliver a childcare tax summary to Josh around 10 a.m. Sat. but he didn't answer the door. She said, "At the time the decorations were still up on the home. Everything we put up was still there Saturday morning. On the ABC 4 report last night I learned the decorations had been taken down."

Much more at the link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m2d9-Josh-Powell-heads-back-to-Puyallup-Wash-Inlaws-no-longer-give-benefit-of-the-doubt-Slideshow

Daddy Steve must be so proud that he has ALL FOUR of the children HE raised living in his house -- ALL OF THEM UNEMPLOYED. Hey, the economy isn't great, but what are the odds?

moo

 

[LCoastMom]

Just wanted to give you all some perspective on how bad things have to be before a state will take children from a birth parent, even temporarily.

My friend's ex has a documented history of mental health issues (depression, suicide attempts, abusing meds, etc.). A couple of years ago during the divorce, he spray-painted the 2-story foyer/living room of the former family home black and said that he made it more "kid-friendly" so she might move back in with him.

Recently his visitation was temporarly halted while DCFS investigated him, because the 9 yr old girl told the school social worker that when she and her 7 year old brother are visiting, he locks himself in the bathroom unresponsive, sleeps for hours during the day (so they are unsupervised), and passes out during acitivities like cooking (burning his hand in the flame on the stove). And the most disturbing thing - he told the children on more than one occasion that he wants to die because mommy doesn't love him anymore. (!) He also admitted to the judge in court that he is currently abusing his prescription pain meds. But, DCFS said the children are not in any danger (?), so the temporary order of protection was removed and he got his normal weekend/holiday visitation rights back. (!!!)

Since winter camping is an activity that some outdoorsy people actually do on a regular basis, it is unlikely any judge would remove the boys from JP based on that and mixing up the days of the week. If he is actually charged with or convicted of something, that's a different story...

When something horrible happens they hide behind the damn paper work and claim there was no way to foresee this happening. Over and over the perp has his rights sacredly guarded while the victims and their families continue to suffer.

~Our Judicial system has turned into a travesty~
- Justice for All means - Protection for the Perps -
And Justice for none​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Examiner article re: the Many disappearances involving the home of Susan Powell --

(my_b&u)

<<snip>>

"Something else that's disappeared," Kirk said, "Is Josh's talkative and obsessive personality - that's gone too."

"I just wonder," Kirk asked, "Why is Josh working so hard to remove any trace or memory of Susan from his life?"

"And what about the kids," Jennifer Graves, Josh's sister said, "No one has access to time alone with them anymore. To the family, it feels like they, too, have disappeared. He's shut down visits outside our dad's home and that's uncomfortable for everyone."

Jennie Hanson, a friend and neighbor of Susan's, drove by the Powell's house Sunday around 2:30 p.m. and saw the decorations had been taken down. Jennie and Susan have been friends for five years, "Pretty much the whole time she's lived here," Jennie said, "We used to do each other's hair and went to the same ward."

Another one of Susan's neighbors, April Lipsey, told Examiner Tuesdsay, "I went by Susan's house today and almost all of the decorations are gone. I noticed one of Susan's ribbons in the gutter."

Though no one saw who removed the decorations, Susan's best friend, Kiirsi Hellewell, believes they were removed late Saturday night when Josh left town to return to Puyallup, Wash.

Jennifer Graves, Josh's sister, said, "It is upsetting to me that Susan's 'welcome home' is gone. I didn't see Josh take the decorations down but I believe either he took them down or instigated them being taken down. He didn't let me know when he was leaving town. In fact, he never let me know when he was coming into town, either."

Kiirsi and Jennifer said that while they understand why the decorations were taken down, it still hurts. They believe either Josh took them down late Saturday night or the new tenants removed them. Either way, it's hard. Everyone hoped Josh would keep the house but again understand that financially it may not have been possible."

More at the Link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m2d10-Susan-Powell-update-Where-have-all-the-ribbons-gone

 

[tiredblondy]

There's one main reason they will not let the children see Susan's parents and that is Josh and his father are afraid the kids will tell something.

I certainly hope when they arrest Josh, that his sister and mother( who left Josh's father) or the Coxes will get custody of the boys.

 

[tiredblondy]

I also hope fervently there is a smoking gun to come out that we don't know about and it comes out soon!

 

[sniperacer]

Reading a lot of emotional responses.

First, IMO, the most interesting info from the Examiner article is;

They believe either Josh took them down late Saturday night or the new tenants removed them.

Sounds like there may be renters living there now?

Until Josh is arrested, he is the parent of the boys. And like every "single" parent of the many broken families (death, divorce, separation, runaway, ..), he is free to raise them as he wishes.

That said, IMO, this case is moving very sloooowly - like a snail traveling uphill in the dead of winter.