SWITZERLAND: At least 5 injured in chainsaw rampage in Schaffhausen

  • #41
AFTER THREE DAYS FRANZ W. LEFT THE PSYCHIATRIC CLINIC

BaslerZeitung
http://bazonline.ch/panorama/vermis...rliess-franz-w-die-psychiatrie/story/29333185

Schaffhausen's chainsaw attacker was forced into a psychiatric clinic in 2016. A controversial measure that is applied often.

He did not present any urgent threat, that was the police's opinion about the - in the meantime imprisoned - Franz W., before his attack on CSS employees in Schaffhausen. After that, it was said that the man was dangerous and mentally unstable. The latter was already noticeable on 11 April 2016.

On that day, Franz W., then living in Beromünster, had been particularly confused, and the police took him into their office. The "Zentral Schweiz am Sonntag" reports this. The police found that he had an electric taser and an open razor with him. Already once before, Franz W. had been reported for illegal weaponry. At that time a pistol, a pointed hammer, pepper spray and ammunition were seized.

Fearing that Franz W. might do harm to himself or to others, he was transferred to the psychiatric clinic St. Urban in Lucerne. The so-called preventive housing rule was applied. According to the report, Franz W. was able to leave the clinic three days after he had been committed. Apparently doctors had come to the conclusion that there was no longer an immediate risk of self-harm or harm to others. A miscalculation, as the recent events have shown.

Is health care reaching the limits of its capacity? The numbers of preventive housing have risen by 30 per cent in one year, as the "SonntagsZeitung" writes.
In 2015 more than 14,000 people were sent to guarded facilities against their will. The figures come from a psychiatry record of the medical statistics of the hospitals. A preventive nursing home is intended for emergencies and takes an average of 20 days, as evidenced in an unpublished study by the Psychiatric University Clinic of Zurich.

Matthias Jäger, senior physician at the psychiatric university hospital in Zurich, is critical about the development. "Studies show that the course of the disease is not better after a preventive nursing home than in case of voluntary treatment," he tells the "Sonntags Zeitung". On the contrary, the prognosis would deteriorate, because the persons concerned do not want to consider any help at all after a forced experience.

Also Franz W. appeared to avoid the authorities after his hospital stay. For instance, he changed his place of residence several times in a short time and lived among other things in the cantons of Zurich, Basel, Lucerne and Graubünden.

Even if the chainsaw attacker had been noticed by his fellow human beings because of his verbal attacks and neglected appearance: yet he always had registered correctly until November 2016. The authorities did not have him on their radar. According to their own data, neither did CSS Insurance have previously any negative experience with Franz W. His attack came as a total surprise to them.


BBM
 
  • #42
So it does seem he was showing signs of mental health issues for a while, but not yet to the degree he was considered a threat to society. He would be an interesting case-study. There are so many problems with diagnosing and treating mental illness; apparently it is not just here in the Sates.
 
  • #43
So it does seem he was showing signs of mental health issues for a while, but not yet to the degree he was considered a threat to society. He would be an interesting case-study. There are so many problems with diagnosing and treating mental illness; apparently it is not just here in the Sates.

On no those problems are not confined to the US at all.
There is a tendency all over Europe to put the mentally ill back into society, or even on the street. Austerity has a lot to do with it, but also a legalistic, bureaucratic way of thinking. Human rights rule, even when common sense would dictate otherwise. Like when the authorities do not act as long as nothing happens. This may be fair to some extent on the alleged perpetrators but it puts the burden on society and for some obscure reasons, that risk is considered acceptable and reasonable. Tell that to the man who was attacked with the chainsaw. I do not want to begin to imagine his wounds....

All of this is very odd, considering the zillions of safety measures that are surrounding us otherwise: safety belts, bike helmets, inspections, quality certificates, best-before-dates, gun-free zones, no smoking ... the list is endless.
 
  • #44
Yes, ZaZara. While I realize being labeled as "mentally ill" can cover a lot of territory from very mild to severe, there has to be a way to protect us from the consequences of these violent actions. And don't get me started on the stigma of "mental illness" for those with mild conditions. It is such a confounding subject and could be a thread all in itself.

I have enjoyed following along here with you. Thanks for all you do!
 
  • #45
THE LIFE OF THE FOREST PEOPLE

TagesAnzeiger
http://desktop.12app.ch/articles/20402287

The attacker from Schaffhausen puts the forest people back into the focus of attention. Who chooses a life removed from civilization voluntarily?


"Forest people? Here?" The man is surprised. He walks along the Sihl every day with his dog. Behind them, in the thick bushes, only a few meters next to the pedestrian walkway in Zurich's Allmend, they have settled there since a week or two: two or three men in a red tent. The dog walker can hardly believe that this was hidden from him. "It is a strange feeling," he says. "I hope they do not have any chainsaws."

The links with Franz W. are quickly made these days: a forest man as a potential danger to the population. The man now arrested, who hurt several people with a chainsaw on Monday in Schaffhausen, recently lived in a forest section in the Zurich wine country. "Simply as far away as possible from the people," W. is said to have spoken to a Bündner hotelier a few weeks before his attack.

Franz W. was a woodman in the end - but an untypical one. "We speak of the homeless, and those whom we know, behave peacefully," says Christian Fischer, operational manager of the team for security intervention prevention (SIP) of the city of Zurich. His people visit homeless people on their patrols, including those who live in the forest, if they have knowledge of their locations. They are fundamentally shy, says Fischer, so also the Waldmänner (forest-men) of the Allmend - for men they are almost always. However, if they are met with an open ear, they have interesting stories to tell: "Then they suddenly become talkative," Fischer says.

The SIP is currently aware of some five men who live in Zurich's forests. However, they assume an unknown figure that is higher. "They are characters who chose to live at the margins of society," Fischer explains. Often they suffer from social Angst, and the ongoing interaction with other people is hard for many to endure. "If they are discovered, they usually change location." So also the men in the Sihltal: Only a fire pit, a few plastic cups and cigarette butts testified yesterday of their presence. Where the men are now, is not known.

The homeless, who live in nature, are not necessarily public shy. Martin Wyss, whom everybody calls "Chrütli", is currently the most famous forest man in Switzerland. The 46-year-old has received numerous TV, video and newspaper reporters in his forest living community in the Bernese Bremgarten forest, where he has been living for over three years. His sense of mission turned into a disaster for him and his co-inhabitants. The public prosecutor's office, who had been informed about the illegal camp through media reports, offered them the choice: a fine of 800 francs or eight days imprisonment. The men went to jail.

Today, despite their illegal status, they still live in the Bremgarten Forest. Their way of life seems to inspire many. Wide is the support that the forest people get from the public. Their Facebook page «Lebenskünstler Bremgarten» counts almost 1000 followers. Well-known politicians greet "Chrütli" when he occasionally strolls through Berne. He obviously feels well in his role as a leisure philosopher and gives tips to the society: "People should reflect on humanity and live more in harmony with nature. We hope to open the eyes of some people with our way of life, " he told the Bund in December. char

The forest man as a model in a society flooded with stimuli? Monika Christen warns for romanticizing life in the forest. The project leader of the Pfarrer-Sieber-Institution Pfuusbus comes into contact occasionally with forest people. "They call upon us to warm up or to take a meal." Homelessness is only to a limited extent a matter of choice: "They live outside because they can no longer do anything else." Behind the façade of the Naturburschen not rarely hide broken lives. People, who often suffered several fatalities.

"One of the Zurich forest people lost his wife through death," says Christians. That was the starting point for his departure from civilization. He had been living in the forest for four years, unable to integrate into society. Some may have a drug problem, others lose the feeling of having a body.

Others, on the other hand, are very well cared for and hardly distinguishable externally from a socially integrated person, says Monika Christen. For most of them the following applies: "Those who have grown accustomed to life outside usually do not return." Unless they are forced to do so.

Three years ago the mental state of the homeless in Switzerland was examined for the first time. The study of the Psychiatric Psychological Polyclinic of the City of Zurich is alarming: 96 per cent of the persons examined suffer from at least one mental illness. Nevertheless, social institutions such as the Pfuusbus often consider it right to let the homeless live their own life as self-determined as possible. There is no obligation to report to the police. The responsibility of the social workers is to assess if the situation is still sustainable, Christians says - for the environment as well as the residents, for relatives and for the homeless persons themselves.

Zurich's prevention experts also often look the other way: "We merely recommend that people go to the night shelter," SIP operations manager Fischer says. If a person is at risk of being a victim or or of self-harm, the emergency physician is called. Sometimes the police are involved.

Tolerance does not protect persons from penalties. In Zurich, the police can issue an order of 80 francs for illegal camping in the forest. Rather, however, the SIP is switched called to work on a solution with the homeless, according to the city police. The police do not appear to look too closely into the forest: "We are currently not aware of anyone who lives in the forest," police officer Michael Walker says.

But maybe forest people are simply hard to discover. Many of these people have a particular ability to make themselves invisible, according to SIP manager Fischer. In the Vaud, a case caught the public attention when it became known last year: At the forest edge of the village of Lutry a couple was living in a yurt: 27 square meters of living space and 3.50 meters high. Despite the stately size of the dwelling, the two remained unnoticed for four years. Then a ranger from the canton filed a complaint and the couple had to clear the place.


BBM


Into the wild .... the Swiss way: camping next to the path were people walk their dogs. Streaming your live video's for your FB-page.
If Franz W was indeed a forest man, he was a forest man on benefits, with health insurance, he lived in a car and half the village passed by his vehicle, he had money and bought a chainsaw.

German Wikipedia:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldmensch
In the old days, a forest man was a wild man living in the forest. In the case of children who have grown up under such circumstances, they are called "wolf-children". The "wild man" was also the subject of popular belief.

:waitasec:

IMHO that was then, and times have changed.
 
  • #46
Interesting info. We do have some homeless who live similarly near here. one particular area is close to a college area, off the sides of the expressway. and if you go down the expressway to Detroit, you may see their belongings, blankets, and even mattresses under the viaducts, all very neatly placed. Some choose that way of living, others have lost everything and believe they have no choice. I suppose mental illness is also familiar to many. Overall, it seems a sad way of living, though. JMO
 
  • #47
Interesting info. We do have some homeless who live similarly near here. one particular area is close to a college area, off the sides of the expressway. and if you go down the expressway to Detroit, you may see their belongings, blankets, and even mattresses under the viaducts, all very neatly placed. Some choose that way of living, others have lost everything and believe they have no choice. I suppose mental illness is also familiar to many. Overall, it seems a sad way of living, though. JMO

I have been intrigued and confused by this case from the moment I saw the first pictures of Franz W. He looked kind of lost, and perhaps with mental issues, and he also looked like a Swiss farmer from a small Swiss village in de Swiss mountains.

It is difficult to put my confusion into words. IMHO I do wonder if it would be possible to live in the woods in Switzerland and turn your back on society.
The report about the Forest People appears to assume that this is possible, yet everyone that they mention has strong ties to society. There are others that no one knows about, yet it is assumed that they exist. How BigFoot is that? I can't imagine that there are people living in the Swiss woods who survive on a diet of berries and rabbits that they catch with traps. Or maybe they rob milk from cows.

As for Franz W. it is possible that the car accident left him with an acquired brain injury.
 
  • #48
You make good points, ZZ. How cold does it get throughout the year there? It can get very cold in the winters here, and some will go at night to a shelter set up for homeless. But not all. Here, it seems that many "Panhandle" for cash donations, collect beverage cans for the return deposit, even scrounge in dumpsters for leftover food (especially behind restaurants). People sometimes give them coins, a blanket, take begged lunches to them. I have no idea what they do if they get sick and have no family willing to help. But overall, our homeless are on the edge of society, not in a forested area away from the basics of living.

I have to admit, it is not a subject I have given enough attention to. I do agree, the accident probably did more damage to FW than has been known or acknowledged.
 
  • #49
CHAINSAW ATTACKER FROM SCHAFFHAUSEN IN INVESTIGATIVE CUSTODY

Toponline.ch
http://www.toponline.ch/news/schaff...angreifer-von-schaffhausen-in-u-haft-0069922/


After the chainsaw attack from last week in Schaffhausen, the suspected perpetrator is actually in investigative detention. This is confirmed by his criminal lawyer Thomas Fingerhuth.

Last week the man allegedly injured two employees with a chainsaw in the CSS branch in Schaffhausen. The suspected perpetrator was arrested one and a half day later in Thalwil.

The man was questioned one day after his arrest. However, the Schaffhausen prosecutor's office has not yet commented on this. At present, it is unclear where the weapon is. The chain saw could not be located during the arrest.

The prosecutor accuses the suspected perpetrator of several criminal offenses against life and body and points out that the presumption of innocence applies.

The alleged perpetrator is represented by the well-known lawyer Thomas Fingerhuth. This is confirmed on request by a corresponding message of «20Minuten Online». The investigative detention has been ordered for three months.


BBM
 
  • #50
"WROUSIS VICTIM OF A GENUINE MEDIA LYNCHING"

Ticinonline.ch
http://www.tio.ch/News/Svizzera/Att...a-di-un-vero-e-proprio-linciaggio-mediatico-/


"Wrousis is a victim of a genuine media lynching" says his new defense lawyer who has already started to take legal action: "He is in jail right now, we have had a good contact"

The stories about Franz Wrousis have monopolized the national and international media for several days, after the man from Schaffhausen assaulted a branch of the health insurance fund CSS armed with chainsaw and wounding five people.

According to his new defense lawyer - Zürich resident Thomas Fingerhuth, known in legal circles for his defense of in particularly infamous cases such as the serial rapist Markus W. and the murder of the little Bianca B - the exposure was excessive and harmful.

"It was a genuine media lynching, I've never seen such a thing. Everyone was ruthlessly taking part without being aware of the facts, " he said to 20 Minuten.
For this reason, Fingerhuth decided to start with a lawsuit against Blick who published "some pictures of my customer as a child, without covering his eyes."

Wrousis, always according to his defense counsel, "is in jail right now, we have a good contact." And since there is no casualty, the lawyer remains optimistic and is convinced that the accusation of "repeated crimes against life" will fail.


BBM
 
  • #51
"And since there is no casualty, the lawyer remains optimistic and is convinced that the accusation of "repeated crimes against life" will fail."

What does this mean? That no one has died, there was no crime against a life?
 
  • #52
"And since there is no casualty, the lawyer remains optimistic and is convinced that the accusation of "repeated crimes against life" will fail."

What does this mean? That no one has died, there was no crime against a life?

Italian text says "vittima" and one of the original the meanings of vittima / victim is someone "who dies or suffers serious injury as a result of an accident, a natural disaster, a desease and the like."
Nowadays we are of course all victims in one way or another, but IMHO that is not what is meant here.

The lawyer is an optimist, but he is right in the sense that no one died, and perhaps also that all injured have left the hospital in the meantime. Lalalala, nothing to see here, please move on....

BTW one of the victims erroneously attributed to Franz W was an elderly gentleman who suffered a police attack:

Blick.ch
https://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/b...t-opa-86-fuer-motorsaegen-mann-id7080219.html

When the first emergency personnel arrive, there is a subsequent confusion: pensioner E.W. * (86) has an appointment at a doctor's office in the same building.

When the retired mason steps out, several policemen jump upon him and handcuff him. "It was not a nice experience," he says.

E. W. suffers bruised ribs and has to go to the hospital.

Later, the police reported him as one of three wounded together with Antonio B. * (45) and Mike F. * (40) - even though the pensioner was the responsibility of the police.
 
  • #53
"FRANZ W. WAS TREATED LIKE FAIR GAME"

20Min.ch
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/-Franz-W--wurde-wie-Freiwild-behandelt--25627883

Franz W., the chainsaw man from Schaffhausen, will be defended by star lawyer Thomas Fingerhuth. The lawyer wants to act against the media.

On Monday morning of July 24, Franz W. stormed into the Schaffhauser branch of the CSS insurance company with a chainsaw and injured two employees, one of them seriously. Two other customers suffered a shock and one person was injured by the police. On the evening of the 26th of July W. was arrested by the Zurich Cantonal Police in Thalwil. With ex-federal attorney Erwin Beyeler he was assigned a prominent piquet defender.

Piquet lawyers are only responsible for the first days. In the meantime W. has hired a new lawyer: Thomas Fingerhuth from Zurich. The lawyer has already played a part in spectacular criminal cases several times in his career. He defended the serial rapist Markus W. and the child murderer Bianca B. "There are no hopeless cases," he told the NZZ in 2013. (*)

To 20 minutes, Fingerhuth tells W. had requested to see him. He then visited him in prison. "We got along well. I could establish a relationship with him," according to Fingerhuth. His client is doing relatively well: "He is calm and composed." Meanwhile, the case has been put into perspective once again. It is now clear that W. did not kill anyone nor injure five persons himself, as it was initially claimed.

The aftermathof the attack was played up by the media, Fingerhuth says. But there was never any relativation. Once it will be clear with what motivation his client had acted, it is possible that no longer an attempted killing, but a milder offense will be in the foreground.

Fingerhuth also wants to take action against the media. "I have never seen a case in which the media were so ruthless. My client was treated like fair game," he says. In particular, the coverage of "Blick" is on his focus. The newspaper had shown unpixellated photos of the attacker. from his childhood days In contrast to the unpixellated photos during the time of the search, there was no need for this at all.

He has threatened the newspaper with a complaint. If he does not receive an answer and the "Blick" does not immediately refrain from publishing these photos, he will sue the newspaper and demand compensation for the personal injury of his client, the 53-year-old lawyer says.


BBM


Well ... errr.... I looked up three of his mayor clients and they all got life. :jail:

* However, from that case in 2013:

https://www.nzz.ch/zuerich/aussichtslose-faelle-gibt-es-nicht-1.18059126

His empathy is with the perpetrator, his ambition is focussed on the reason why. Only when the court understands why someone has committed a crime, it be will be able to issue an appropriate sentence, Fingerhuth says.
 
  • #54
Well, the lawyer is going to have to work magic. Other than mental illness, I don't see W getting away with this.
 

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