Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #2

[USARDOG]

Darn, I had a lovely (IMHO) long post written about the rational mind and it might work or not work in this case. But I can't seem to use the touchpad correctly on my laptop and I keep hitting something and the posts go away. I've lost quite a few that way and going backwards does not help. Some of them needed to go away, but still!

I wondered if KC was a killer, which method of killing would she use in this case? Would it be something more suited to her own needs and turmoil, or would she strut about the stage, trying on different personas and adopting what she perceives as THEIR method of killing? Is she looking at poor Caylee from KC's eyes or from the eyes of the "SODDI," taking on the persona of a Hannibal Lector or a Charles Manson and performing the murder through those eyes?

Does that make sense what I'm trying to say? What motives KC and makes pure sense to KC may never make sense to anyone else. And if she is trying to ensure that her killing methodology leads to the "some other dude," then might she kill as she perceives a crazed or drugged baby killing kidnapper would kill? Or how a 'roided out spurned fiance would kill? Or how a in-the-way roommate of the new man in her life would kill? Or how the "shaggy-haired stranger" would kill? We just don't know what script she is reading from.

I can just see her, Bates Motel style, sitting in her jail cell, talking in her own head that why, she wouldn't even hurt the fly buzzing around her head, let alone her own child.

Ooh, she's got Betty Davis eyes.

I think a brilliant post, and i agree with you 100%. Marspiter mentioned a movie, and it would seem to fit. KC is not an original thinker, she seems to get her ideas from movies. ie, ''Timers 55." Sounds just like some sifi movie to me. So I can see her identifying with Sara Connor... Strong heroine escaping ''prison," by killing the evil guard... Sounds perfect to me.

 

[QuietStorm]

Great post! I've been giving Casey a lot of thought these past few days. I'm wondering if she crossed the line from sociopath to psychopath. It would explain so much to my very rational thinking brain.

And to me, the scary thing is that she could do all this and remain sane - irrational, sociopathic, even evil. But sane.

 

[RR0004]

LMAO..my brother drinks it. He cut back on soda, lost 25 lbs by doing so and swears by the Crystal Light. So it's possible, and he is married, to a woman.

Too funny...my assistant swears by it.

 

[seagull65]

The syringe in the gatorade bottle. Someone disposing of a syringe after use and wanting to dispose of it discreetly without others in their household knowing they were using it or something, hiding it in a cardboard roll inside a bottle to throw out? Why the bottle would be filled with those other chemicals is puzzling. Maybe the bottle was just used for cleanup somewhere, whether in the trunk or some other locale, or just trying to remove all fingerprints or something from evidence, and then a syringe someone used was also disposed of in same bottle? Sorry just brainstorming. It does seem like someone would use a simpler method to kill a child if that's what they wanted to do. Pool drowning, etc. Something that would look like an accident. Maybe someone just sat on that log to inject something in himself?

Does a person feel any immediate effect when they inject steroids?

 

[USARDOG]

The syringe in the gatorade bottle. Someone disposing of a syringe after use and wanting to dispose of it discreetly without others in their household knowing they were using it or something, hiding it in a cardboard roll inside a bottle to throw out? Why the bottle would be filled with those other chemicals is puzzling. Maybe the bottle was just used for cleanup somewhere, whether in the trunk or some other locale, or just trying to remove all fingerprints or something from evidence, and then a syringe someone used was also disposed of in same bottle? Sorry just brainstorming. It does seem like someone would use a simpler method to kill a child if that's what they wanted to do. Pool drowning, etc. Something that would look like an accident. Maybe someone just sat on that log to inject something in himself?

Does a person feel any immediate effect when they inject steroids?

But the cleanup theory has a lump in it, the pesticides, no one cleans with pesticides. It would seem this is a lethal mix, at least that is the way I see it.

Steroids don't usually give an instant effect, but need to be assimilated by the body is the way I remember it.

 

[LCoastMom]

As far as I can tell, there were no steroids dumped, but rather there was a syringe found with traces of testosterone in it. This would fit the picture of someone using the syringe to inject steroids, then the syringe being discarded.

It leaves me wondering if GA had a prescription for the stuff, and if so, KC could have easily picked up one of the syringes after use and had other ideas what she would do with it.

On another note, as a former cath lab tech, I have a habit of folding my needles in half after use by pushing them against a counter top. We did this so they would not accidently stick someone. Also made them useless for anyone wanting to reuse them. CA being a nurse, I wonder if she had such a habit also? I'm wondering if any nurses or MD's on WS have the same habit.

Cindy had been out of hands on nursing care for at least several years, but yup, very few RN's would leave used needles laying around anyplace where they could be used again. (thinking of a nurse who had just gotten 2 kids out of their teens, I can't can't see CA doing that). Sharps containers have been around for use, even at home for years, if she had someone she was injecting regularly.

For years after my mom retired she would do volunteer flu shots every year, she always brought them home, for her loving family and shot us up at home. then returned the empties to be put in whatever container they were disposing them in.

Does anyone know if CA renewed her nursing license this year? I think it came due this fall??

 

[seagull65]

I'd be surprised if a guy was drinking Crystal Light...but not sure who CC is.

CC was one of TL's roommates, the one who was the member of Fuzzy Red Balloons, he's present in one of TL's interviews, kind of helping supply words, the interview where TL is having a little laugh with CC about the day he picked Casey up at Amscot, saying he only remembers that she was holding bags of food, because "food means a lot to me", etc.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Don't know how big this syringe is, but would it be feasible that someone would be able to draw decomp fluid in it in order to clean it up?

Ugh what an awful but great thought!

 

[seagull65]

I believe CC was also the roommate who provided most of the information to YM about the drugs being used in the apartment, I could be wrong, could have been one of the other guys.

There's no chance the gatorade bottle was being used as a spittoon too, is there? Can any of the chemicals be accounted for by tobacco? Nevermind, the substance in that bottle wasn't that brown color and didn't have same smell.

 

[cecybeans]

Coincidence - I just read Annie's interview transcript last night and in it she discusses the fact that CA was telling people that at least RM, AH, and I think AD herself, maybe others, were using heroin.

And wasn't there also some mention made by CA to DC of this rumor in her emails back and forth to him? Amongst all the "disseminating hate toward the Anthony family" labels...(I'm thinking of printing that on a teeshirt)

 

[LCoastMom]

Don't know how big this syringe is, but would it be feasible that someone would be able to draw decomp fluid in it in order to clean it up?

3cc is the size they are using for h1n1 flu shots, not terribly big. But gag gag, she would have had more luck using a spatula or BIG cooking type mixing spoon to clean the sludgy decomp fluid (think tissue breaking down) Ugh.

 

[seagull65]

But the cleanup theory has a lump in it, the pesticides, no one cleans with pesticides. It would seem this is a lethal mix, at least that is the way I see it.

Unless they did also want to rid whatever they were cleaning of flies

 

[MD MOMMY]

A few things popped into my head..as I'm gearing up for bed.

1. Remember when GA volunteered that Caylee was so smart she could get doors open even though they were "child proofed?" He was talking about how smart she was.

2. In CA's interview I remember that they asked her if she had child proof locks under her sinks?

It's all perhaps coming clear why. I think I need to go back and re-read all this information, it's really interesting now.

 

[USARDOG]

Think the theory of injecting pesticides is interesting one. Don't know if it is true, but it is interesting.

 

[QuietStorm]

3cc is the size they are using for h1n1 flu shots, not terribly big. But gag gag, she would have had more luck using a spatula or BIG cooking type mixing spoon to clean the sludgy decomp fluid (think tissue breaking down) Ugh.

Ooh, ooh, icky. Why did my mind go there?

 

[cecybeans]

Starting at page 11732, here is what I found as the chemical make-up of the yellow extract from the syringe liquid. These results were produced by the toxicology lab and are sorted in order of most abundant to least.

Cyclododecane - Wax like bonding agent
Butylated Hydroxytoluene - BHT - antioxident food additive (preservative)
1-Tridecanol - Broad usage as a solvent
Testosterone Propionate - Anabolic steroid
1-Tetradecanol - Common in cosmetics as an emollient
Phenol, 2,2'-methylenebis[6-(1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-methyl - Sometimes used in fungicides
1-Tridecene - Possible biopesticide - known to attract beetles
9-Hexadecenoic acid, phenylmethyl ester, (Z)- - Some pesticide use
3,5-di-tert-Butyl-4-hydroxybenzaldehyde - Chemical intermediate for manufacture of pesticides
Eicosane - Used in the creation and/or manufacturing of fragrance and flavor concentrates
Dodecanoic acid, phenylmethyl ester - Anti-microbial
Decanoic acid, phenylmethyl ester - Sometimes used in injectible pharmaceuticals
3 Cyclohexene-1-methanol, .alpha.,.alpha.4-trimethyl- - Used in manufacture of flavors and fragrances
Pyrene - Used to make dyes and dye precursors
Octacosane - Pesticide use
2,6-di-tert-Butyl-4-(dimethylaminomethyl)pheonol - Stabilizer
​

FWIW

While all of these components might be present in some pesticide or cleaning solvent, it strikes me that some might also be present in a drink, such as eicosane, 3cyclohexene, pyrene and the last ingredient. So is it possible this could have been a mixture of whatever drink had been in the bottle mixed with some kind of pesticide, plus the pharmaceutical (residue or otherwise) in the syringe? I'm also wondering if a couple ingredients could be related to makeup (like lip gloss or something) in that they are often used in cosmetics. It will be interesting to see if we could find something that included them all.

 

[Sammiejam]

I used an almost identical kit for my IVF shots. No way, no how would you consider using them to suck up or clean anything up. The the needle is to fine and even the tiniest particle of dirt or dust would not go up the needle and block it.

A turkey baster sized one - yes. This one - no. IMHO anyways

 

[OneLostGrl]

Was the guy who claimed to have seen Caylee and KC 4ish at Walmart on 6/16 proved or disproved?

Sorry to be coming into this convo late, I've read quite a bit of this and the benzo's in Caylee's hair.

One thing that is pretty clear in my mind, if KC did this to Caylee, this was a 1 time thing, even if she was drugging Caylee from way back when, she was not injecting her with chemicals..

So why not just OD her on the benzo's?

If this little cocktail was KC's way out of motherhood, the variety of chemicals is big time over kill...

So if this bottle of junk, was intentionally left with Caylee, is it possible KC mixed it up after the fact, just in case Caylee was found in time to look at chemicals in her tissues to throw the whole thing off??

There were no benzos found in Caylee's hair. Those where the test samples.

ITA though about the over-kill.. very odd for someone like Casey. Lazy, no follow through, fly by the seat of her pants.. can't sneak, lie, steal or even sign a bad check "properly". Claiming to be a virgin at 7 months pregnant, was held up with a gun to her head at her 2nd job.. the only people foolish enough to fall for any of her games were her "family" (and we know now that they were not even fooled they just chose to shut up to keep the peace in the house.)

I dunno, I just do not see the same person many here see. The chick is hardly a mastermind. imo.

 

[QuietStorm]

No, it was from the trash bag taken from KC's car.

Didn't that trash bag and the trash therein come from TL's apartment - I remember that she stole it from his roommate??

 

[TakeNote]

I have to keep reminding myself that not every item tested, directly relates to the case.
keeping it simple and logical, I'm thinking that the brown liquid is the spit from the Copenhagen chewing tobacco.
Here's a pic of the crystal light bottle and the tobacco from the trash.(the tin is to the right of the bottle)

I haven't been able to locate a list of its 2000+ chemicals, but will keep digging. But some of the chemicals listed in the docs are found in cigarettes, so are likely in the tobacco too.

Why is there no nicotine present if its from tobacco? Because the nicotine is absorbed in the tissue of the mouth when its chewed, and literally goes up in smoke when its smoked.
There don't appear to be any crystal light ingredients detected either. So not all chemicals/compounds/ingredients were tracable.

Now here are some google pics showing that spitting into a bottle is common with tobacco chewing, and looks similar to the crystal light bottle in the above pic.

It makes more sense to me that a bottle of icky brown spit was found in the same trash as the tobacco tin, than KC making a lethal cocktail and leaving it in the trash.
JMO of course.

why would it smell of urine? and have urine components in it.....im not saying it was used for chew....but why the urine?

thanks for the pics too!!

add: ok i read back and seen where the chemicals used put off a urine smell....