Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #2

[Harmony 2]

Harmony, Val is posting about the contents of the Crystal Lite bottle that was found in the garbage bag from the trunk of KC's car.

HTH!!

I know but if it was used as a cleaner of the trunk, as has been suggested, the chemicals would have to be present on the trunk carpet or liner. I would also like to know if the chemicals were found on any other items, especially at the remains site, to perhaps tie it into Caylee's demise. I am just trying to figure how chloroform and all the chemicals found come into play... if at all.

 

[steadychick]

I have to keep reminding myself that not every item tested, directly relates to the case.
keeping it simple and logical, I'm thinking that the brown liquid is the spit from the Copenhagen chewing tobacco.
Here's a pic of the crystal light bottle and the tobacco from the trash.(the tin is to the right of the bottle)

I haven't been able to locate a list of its 2000+ chemicals, but will keep digging. But some of the chemicals listed in the docs are found in cigarettes, so are likely in the tobacco too.

Why is there no nicotine present if its from tobacco? Because the nicotine is absorbed in the tissue of the mouth when its chewed, and literally goes up in smoke when its smoked.
There don't appear to be any crystal light ingredients detected either. So not all chemicals/compounds/ingredients were tracable.

Now here are some google pics showing that spitting into a bottle is common with tobacco chewing, and looks similar to the crystal light bottle in the above pic.

It makes more sense to me that a bottle of icky brown spit was found in the same trash as the tobacco tin, than KC making a lethal cocktail and leaving it in the trash.
JMO of course.

OK, don't know if this has anything to do with anything but here goes. Valhall has given us info from an expert that some of the chemicals in the Crystal Lite bottle seem to indicate a propellant. In the picture of the trash above, there is a spray can of shoe cleaner. IIRC, this cleaner belonged to one of AL's roommates, who said it was missing. And IIRC, the can in the trash was not empty.

I remember reading about the missing shoe cleaner before (anyone recall where this was?), but never realized in was in a spray can, which would have had propellant in it. Just seems strange that KC may have taken it for some reason, it ends up only partially used in this trash bag, and propellant ingredients are found in the CL bottle.

 

[magic-cat]

Hi MC . That's probably a good idea. Maybe alter the title a bit since we now know it's not urine? Just my :twocents:. Thanks for the thread btw.

I went to see if I could do that and apparently the window on editing has closed for ME so perhaps someone could alert on the initial post and ask a MOD to alter the title so it includes contents of crystal light bottle? I hate to alert on my own self. :blushing:

 

[butwhatif?]

Ok...I'm confused...Casey was spitting tobacco?

LOl- sorry for the confusion. Not KC- she smoked. Remember this trash is from TLs apt. And IIRC TL said in a statement that he had quit smoking but started again because of the stress of the case.
So I think it was his roomie who chewed.
I'm pretty sure it was in one of the audios released which I have saved., so I'll go back and listen today, and let you know for sure.
Am having some speed/connection problems today, so hopefully I'll be able to get back in later.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I definitely see your point about KC's laziness. In some of the things she tried to get away with, it was such a ham-handed attempt, it would be obvious to anyone who cared to see.

However, I also think back to her faking e-mail headers to maintain the illusion that she had a job and was seen as important. That shows me that if something means enough to her, she does know how to take steps to avoid detection.

Thinking of her going to the trouble of blending a concoction and using a syringe to deliver it to Caylee does seem like a stretch for her, when there would undoubtably be easier methods.

Hopefully we will know more in the next document dump. <fingers crossed>

I hate to sound like I'm just shooting everything down here but had anyone attempted to check into the email addy's they would have found out she was lazy and transparent yet again. They were not real addresses, they went nowhere! LE figured that out in a matter of what, minutes? She put no real effort into anything she did.

 

[OneLostGrl]

LOl- sorry for the confusion. Not KC- she smoked. Remember this trash is from TLs apt. And IIRC TL said in a statement that he had quit smoking but started again because of the stress of the case.
So I think it was his roomie who chewed.
I'm pretty sure it was in one of the audios released which I have saved., so I'll go back and listen today, and let you know for sure.
Am having some speed/connection problems today, so hopefully I'll be able to get back in later.

Casey smoked?? Where did you hear that?

 

[3doglady]

Casey smoked?? Where did you hear that?

I think BWI was referring to KC smoking pot not cigarettes.

 

[3doglady]

There were no benzos found in Caylee's hair. Those where the test samples.

ITA though about the over-kill.. very odd for someone like Casey. Lazy, no follow through, fly by the seat of her pants.. can't sneak, lie, steal or even sign a bad check "properly". Claiming to be a virgin at 7 months pregnant, was held up with a gun to her head at her 2nd job.. the only people foolish enough to fall for any of her games were her "family" (and we know now that they were not even fooled they just chose to shut up to keep the peace in the house.)

I dunno, I just do not see the same person many here see. The chick is hardly a mastermind. imo.

Love your post and totally agree. IF KC ever had these chemicals I think it was to try and get rid of the smell. Sounds like she just mixed different cleaners together.

 

[Jolynna]

The syringe in the gatorade bottle. Someone disposing of a syringe after use and wanting to dispose of it discreetly without others in their household knowing they were using it or something, hiding it in a cardboard roll inside a bottle to throw out? Why the bottle would be filled with those other chemicals is puzzling. Maybe the bottle was just used for cleanup somewhere, whether in the trunk or some other locale, or just trying to remove all fingerprints or something from evidence, and then a syringe someone used was also disposed of in same bottle? Sorry just brainstorming. It does seem like someone would use a simpler method to kill a child if that's what they wanted to do. Pool drowning, etc. Something that would look like an accident. Maybe someone just sat on that log to inject something in himself?

Does a person feel any immediate effect when they inject steroids?

In response to the part I bolded.

No.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't think you can kill a person with an OD of antibiotics, not very easily anyway.

Gentamicin is a mighty heafty drug and toxicity can develop with a normal dose.

Has it been brought up that perhaps this could be where the needles (if they were Casey's) came from?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think BWI was referring to KC smoking pot not cigarettes.

Ahh.. i see, thanks! Certainly a totally different animal!

 

[butwhatif?]

LOl- sorry for the confusion. Not KC- she smoked. Remember this trash is from TLs apt. And IIRC TL said in a statement that he had quit smoking but started again because of the stress of the case.
So I think it was his roomie who chewed.
I'm pretty sure it was in one of the audios released which I have saved., so I'll go back and listen today, and let you know for sure.
Am having some speed/connection problems today, so hopefully I'll be able to get back in later.

Yay....puter is back to normal.
So not cool to quote yourself, but here i am doing it anyway. LOL.

Here's what I got from re-listening to TL's audio interview from back in Sept.


Re: TL Looking at trash item pics..... (from 44:52 of audio)

~ Nate chews the Copenhagen.
~ Cam drinks the crystal light.
~ Malborough cigs likely belonged to roomies friends who visit all the time.
~ Arm and hammer used by TL.
~ Shoe cleaner belonged to Clint who had left it at Tl's place.(TL not sure if it was empty or not.)
~ Trash bag from trunk is same type normally used at TL's Apt. TL: “It looks like my trash”.

So, the big issue here is if it was a delberately made lethal cocktail in the cyrstal light bottle, it could be tied to anybody who lived at or visited TL's apt, since most of the items belonged to them rather than KC.
JMO

 

[Just Jayla]

Okay, I passed the contents of the Crystal Lite bottle to two chemists (new ones, not the analytical guy who helped on the syringe results). One of these guys is a PhD chemist. The other has over 20 years in forensic chemistry working for what will remain an unnamed bureau of investigation.

Here's what they said...

First one:

Appears to be a cleaner....lots of solvents present. Is not a pesticide. I asked where the urine smell was coming from and he said the Trimethylamine. I asked about the dimethyl disulfide and he stated "that one is kind of odd" then went on to explain that this is the type of sulfide that is added to natural gas to make it "stink" so that you can sense when you have a gas leak. He also noted that there were several constituents that can be used as a propellant.
Second one (forensics dude):

The chemistry looks like an industrial cleaner disinfectant, you have some surfactants, solvents and strong disinfectants(phenol).

Just thought I'd share!

BBM-I wonder if you can find out about how this would compare to two-stroke oil-I believe GA kept some in one of the gas cans for his lawnmower.

 

[TakeNote]

Perhaps we should move the conversation about the Crystal Light bottles contents to the thread that is about item Q241? That way all of this info will not get bogged down in discussion about the chloroform(or lack thereof) in the Gatorade bottle? Any thoughts?

i agree....i also posted in that thread about changing the name...to maybe crystal light or Q241 or both or something other then urine....

 

[Sophiered]

It makes more sense to me that a bottle of icky brown spit was found in the same trash as the tobacco tin, than KC making a lethal cocktail and leaving it in the trash.

If that bottle was used for spit after chewing tobacco. It would contain DNA wouldn't it?

 

[butwhatif?]

All this chemistry stuff goes over my head, so while I was waiting to hear back from a chemist friend, I decided to google 'tobacco' along with each of the chemicals detected in the crystal light bottle individually.
And guess what?

Every single one on the list is associated with tobacco.

2-Butanol - Solvent, also converted to Butanone- Found in tobacco

methyl ethyl ketone - Solvent, denaturing agent, cleaning agent-Found in tobacco

Methyl Alcohol – Solvent- Found in tobacco

Disulfide, dimethyl - Insecticide - contributor of urine smell- Found in tobacco

P-cresol - Disinfectants, insecticides-Found in tobacco

Anisole - Aromatic in perfumes and insecticides-Added to tobacco for aroma

Methyl Isocyanide – Pesticides- Found in tobacco

cyclohexane, [(1-methylpropyl)thio]- - Fungicide, insecticide? Adds flavor to tobacco (eeeew!)

Trimethylamine - Manufacturing use. Main source of urine smell- Found in tobacco

Phenol - Antiseptic, herbicide- Found in tobacco

2-Nonanol, 5-ethyl- - Fungicide, insecticide?-Found in tobacco

Benzothiazole - Industrial use - binding agent?- Found in tobacco

1-Methoxycycloheptatriene - Use unknown, seems to be a neurotoxin-Found in tobacco

It's still unknown if all of these are added to Copenhagen specifically, but I don't think we'll ever know for sure since the tobacco industry does not want consumers to know of all the toxins they add.

If nothing else, it's a good reason for smokers and chewers to quit. Here we are discussing this lethal mixture and all of them are used in tobacco and consumed daily.

In my mind, I'm pretty much convinced now that the brown liquid was spit from the copenhagen, but I know others feel differently, and am still open to other ideas.

Am happy to provide links if requested, but right now I'm off to take my lil princess to the park. It's a beautiful day here.
JMO

 

[Jolynna]

The mix found in the syringe and gatorade bottle is the possible smoking gun, imo. Whether the syringe was previously used for hormone replacement or body building, there is no reason for anyone to draw pesticides up into the mix. Bug killing ingredients don't build muscles, make people high or put men in the mood for love. What reason would ANYONE have to put together those ingredients other than the obvious one? The syringe and gatorade bottle were found by a dead body.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The mix found in the syringe and gatorade bottle is the possible smoking gun, imo. Whether the syringe was previously used for hormone replacement or body building, there is no reason for anyone to draw pesticides up into the mix. Bug killing ingredients don't build muscles, make people high or put men in the mood for love. What reason would ANYONE have to put together those ingredients other than the obvious one? The syringe and gatorade bottle were found by a dead body.

I am dizzy from reading all the posts on the chemical constituents of these bottles... and I am wondering if it will all come down to nothing,other than the reports were used as a red herring by the Prosecution, to create a mountain of work for the defense, (if the work displayed on this site is anything to go by)- and they will end up with the same conclusion..... JMO

 

[RR0004]

All this chemistry stuff goes over my head, so while I was waiting to hear back from a chemist friend, I decided to google 'tobacco' along with each of the chemicals detected in the crystal light bottle individually.
And guess what?

Every single one on the list is associated with tobacco.

2-Butanol - Solvent, also converted to Butanone- Found in tobacco

methyl ethyl ketone - Solvent, denaturing agent, cleaning agent-Found in tobacco

Methyl Alcohol &#8211; Solvent- Found in tobacco

Disulfide, dimethyl - Insecticide - contributor of urine smell- Found in tobacco

P-cresol - Disinfectants, insecticides-Found in tobacco

Anisole - Aromatic in perfumes and insecticides-Added to tobacco for aroma

Methyl Isocyanide &#8211; Pesticides- Found in tobacco

cyclohexane, [(1-methylpropyl)thio]- - Fungicide, insecticide? Adds flavor to tobacco (eeeew!)

Trimethylamine - Manufacturing use. Main source of urine smell- Found in tobacco

Phenol - Antiseptic, herbicide- Found in tobacco

2-Nonanol, 5-ethyl- - Fungicide, insecticide?-Found in tobacco

Benzothiazole - Industrial use - binding agent?- Found in tobacco

1-Methoxycycloheptatriene - Use unknown, seems to be a neurotoxin-Found in tobacco

It's still unknown if all of these are added to Copenhagen specifically, but I don't think we'll ever know for sure since the tobacco industry does not want consumers to know of all the toxins they add.

If nothing else, it's a good reason for smokers and chewers to quit. Here we are discussing this lethal mixture and all of them are used in tobacco and consumed daily.

In my mind, I'm pretty much convinced now that the brown liquid was spit from the copenhagen, but I know others feel differently, and am still open to other ideas.

Am happy to provide links if requested, but right now I'm off to take my lil princess to the park. It's a beautiful day here.
JMO

Great work. I just picked one of the substances-p-cresol- and found that it's found in tobacco smoke...don't see it connected to nicotine as a product:

The p-cresol isomer has been detected in emissions from coal tar and metal refining, chemical and glass fiber manufacturing, motor vehicle exhaust, wood pulping, brewing, and tobacco smoke.

http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/html/cresols.html

The same is true with phenol...it's a component of tobacco smoke. From this article, I can see how it's seen as a component of tobacco- one that's emitted at high temperatures.

"Quinic acid and quinic acid derivatives present in tobacco are identified as important precursors of hydroquinone, catechol, and phenol."- Journal of Analytical and Applied Pyrolysis
Volume 84, Issue 2, March 2009, Pages 170-178

Was there presence of quinic acids? Need to go look. **Oh...can you provide the link back to the FBI report...it would save me time...much appreciated.** TIA

Bottom line...it's all rather disturbing.

 

[Jolynna]

Great work. I just picked one of the substances-p-cresol- and found that it's found in tobacco smoke...don't see it connected to nicotine as a product:

The p-cresol isomer has been detected in emissions from coal tar and metal refining, chemical and glass fiber manufacturing, motor vehicle exhaust, wood pulping, brewing, and tobacco smoke.

http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/html/cresols.html

The same is true with phenol...it's a component of tobacco smoke. From this article, I can see how it's seen as a component of tobacco- one that's emitted at high temperatures.

"Quinic acid and quinic acid derivatives present in tobacco are identified as important precursors of hydroquinone, catechol, and phenol."- Journal of Analytical and Applied Pyrolysis
Volume 84, Issue 2, March 2009, Pages 170-178

Was there presence of quinic acids? Need to go look. **Oh...can you provide the link back to the FBI report...it would save me time...much appreciated.** TIA

Bottom line...it's all rather disturbing.

BBM

i'm not sure why you are disturbed by the possibility of tobacco juice in the crystal light bottle?

The crystal light was found in the bag of trash from Tony's apartment. Somebody spitting the remnants of their chew into a bottle isn't nefarious. (Maybe gross...but not especially disturbing.) A group of college guys had an apartment and their friends came by often. It isn't especially eyebrow-raising to find skoal in that kind of crowd.

If the mixture turns out to be a cleaning product, then there is a strong possibility KC brought it down to use for trunk cleaning before she had to take Tony to the airport. If so, KC was as bad at trunk cleaning as she was at hole digging. But, any defense attorney can come with lots off innocent things that could have been done with a cleaning product. Tony said KC was a housecleaning dynamo.

Not so with the stuff in the syringe. I can't come up with a single reason to draw bug poison and/or cleaning products up into a syringe.