Terri H resembles "Sarah Heartburn"?

[Sherbie]

Respectfully snipped.

I don't remember reading that. I thought she asked something to the effect of "What's going on?" Do you happen to remember where that was stated?

Thanks!

I remember in one interview she said her initial thought was, "She better not have done something to my son!" Maybe that's it? Like you, I recall her saying that she asked Terri what was going on.

 

[speedracer1263]

hmm...think I'm getting what happened at -1:29... It was like TH was going to try to actually reach around to face on (chest to chest) embrace Desiree, but she stopped herself i.e. like "this is not appropriate at this moment" -- so she kinda did the little fist movement "oh I am so distraught/frustrated" kinda thing.

I never noticed the little fist movement before. Thanks for pointing that out. I also never noticed that when Terri does the fist thing there is a hand that comes out to console DY. I think it was the female officer.

 

[kimmera]

I never noticed the little fist movement before. Thanks for pointing that out. I also never noticed that when Terri does the fist thing there is a hand that comes out to console DY. I think it was the female officer.

BBM~

I always thought that was KH, reaching up behind TH to put his arm around DY's shoulder. That is the part where TH appears to come unglued for a second.

 

[BeanE]

Remember, we've read that her first words when she spoke to Terri (school sec handed phone to Terri when DY asked is she was there--weird question, in a way) and said what have you done to him.

I believe it was in the long interview DY and KH did with the Oregon press after the murder for hire plot came out.

I've never read that or seen that. Please provide a link so I can read/see it too.

- that Desiree asked the secretary if Terri was there, and the secretary handed the phone to Terri. (I read/saw Desiree say that Desiree and the secretary hung up, and then Desiree called Terri.)

- that Desiree said to Terri "What have you done to him". (I never read/saw this at all.)

 

[ami]

That video has bugged me each time I've watched it. I bet a body language expert could give a really good explanation of the specifics about why it's so "off". I wonder if any have publicly weighed in on it.

The way she puts her head down and leans on DY and KH is really cloying (someone up-thread used that word, it's exactly right...) and feels so suffocating when DY clearly needs to stand stiffly, shaking, hand over stomach, and just get through the next 5 minutes. I imagine she was telling herself she could just completely lose it and weep once they walked off camera.

TMH just looked so much like a child who had been scolded and wants reassurance from mommy and daddy: head down, with almost a pouty, hang-dog don't-be-mad-at-me look. Wanting someone to reassure her, regardless of their own needs, despite the inappropriate environment for a long snuggly hug. Casting those looks from under her lowered eyes to see what the reaction was. That one point when she wiped her nose while looking up at DY as if she was checking to see if she was being observed being "sad". Creepy. You don't see shock and disbelief. Just a "sad face".

 

[awakewriter]

I've always been struck by Kaine's reaction to Terri's clingy-ness.

He gave TY a big, heartfelt hug between their speeches. With Terri, he's either standing stone still, looking away from her, or he's maneuvering to remove her. It's interesting body language.

 

[awakewriter]

That video has bugged me each time I've watched it. I bet a body language expert could give a really good explanation of the specifics about why it's so "off". I wonder if any have publicly weighed in on it.

The way she puts her head down and leans on DY and KH is really cloying (someone up-thread used that word, it's exactly right...) and feels so suffocating when DY clearly needs to stand stiffly, shaking, hand over stomach, and just get through the next 5 minutes. I imagine she was telling herself she could just completely lose it and weep once they walked off camera.

TMH just looked so much like a child who had been scolded and wants reassurance from mommy and daddy: head down, with almost a pouty, hang-dog don't-be-mad-at-me look. Wanting someone to reassure her, regardless of their own needs, despite the inappropriate environment for a long snuggly hug. Casting those looks from under her lowered eyes to see what the reaction was. That one point when she wiped her nose while looking up at DY as if she was checking to see if she was being observed being "sad". Creepy. You don't see shock and disbelief. Just a "sad face".

I just picked up the crazy blinking, too. None of the other parents blink even half as much as she does.

Some might say she was nervous to be on camera, but it certainly looked like a performance to me.

 

[LadyL]

ok, I had no idea who Sarah Heartburn was and I thought she must be an alias for TH in some movies or something

anyway, yeah - that pc was confirmation for me

 

[redkatrampant]

DEsiree does not look to me like she is needing someone to cling to. As someone wrote before, she is trying to protect her womb. She seems to most deeply sob when TH is touching her. Remember, we've read that her first words when she spoke to Terri (school sec handed phone to Terri when DY asked is she was there--weird question, in a way) and said what have you done to him. First instincts--1) Terri is there (not KY, not teacher), and 2) what have you done. She knew immediately that Terri was involved in the disappearance of Kyron. She knew that Terri didn't like Kyron ...


imo

BBM.
I noticed that too! I do think her body language is quite telling in this video. Now I wish I had the time to search the other videos out...oh wait, she is not in most of them. I think that is telling too.
But back to this, I see that Desiree cannot look at her. I also see that Desiree tenses up. I watched Kaine too. Thinking back, we all commented on how stoic he seemed. Some people chalked it up to him being an engineer, being cool under crisis, etc. What we know now explains his behavior,IMO. At that point he had to play along. He did not want to be there with her, but he had no reason to give that she should not be. That was all to come.
MOO

 

[Boo Scout]

BBM.
I noticed that too! I do think her body language is quite telling in this video. Now I wish I had the time to search the other videos out...oh wait, she is not in most of them. I think that is telling too.
But back to this, I see that Desiree cannot look at her. I also see that Desiree tenses up. I watched Kaine too. Thinking back, we all commented on how stoic he seemed. Some people chalked it up to him being an engineer, being cool under crisis, etc. What we know now explains his behavior,IMO. At that point he had to play along. He did not want to be there with her, but he had no reason to give that she should not be. That was all to come.
MOO

From the first time I saw this footage, it was a huge factor for me in what I was thinking about TH's involvement. It was a great refresher to view it again, so thanks for this thread.

I notice how DY tenses up next to TH - the word that came to me when TH first really tries to comfort DY when TY goes up to speak was that DY bristles when TH touches her...seems to me that she physically pulls slightly away, subtle but there.

I also agree with the post above that KH makes more sense now than when first watching this.

But the thing that got to me the most, besides TH's blinking, arm-crossing/hugging herself, etc. is that she seems to me to be constantly looking for direction from the others as to how she should appear / how she should be behaving. Acting is a good way to put it, b/c I feel like she is really focused on trying to look like she's behaving appropriately for the situation, and she's glancing around to see that's she's doing it and to also, moo, gauge other's reactions to her.

TH really disturbs me greatly in this footage. MOO only.

 

[Wrinkles]

I saw Terri immediately put her arms around Desiree when her husband Tony went to talk, as if she didn't want Desiree to be standing there by herself with nobody to hang on to. I saw that Desiree didn't really look at anyone. She was shaking in her grief.

I can't find the obvious acting, but I DO see that Terri was very clingy and was making sure Desiree had someone to cling to.

However, I've been told by several close friends that I cannot read people well and am gullible about believing what people tell me.

Nice to meet you Tragco!

Thank you for bringing up those points AND seasoning it with what you have been told about reading other people. It helps a bit to put things into perspective about what you have mentioned.

Without reviewing the film first (and I should actually...) My impression from the beginning is that Desiree is stiffened up, as if to firmly hold herself erect (rather than collapse or tremble too much, so to speak, i.e. "be strong"). If I were to guess, another reason for her standing so stiffly was to speak with her body language, "please don't touch me."

You wrote:
>>as if she didn't want Desiree to be standing there by herself with nobody to hang on to.<<

You see, as I looked at the situation... Desiree's body language was not inviting Terri to support her...it was quite the opposite. Were I stiffened up and trembling like she was, I would expect most sensitive people to "catch on" to what I was saying, "This is not the time to touch me." For some reason, Terri didn't read that OR, if she did, she purposely went against Desiree's stance. I think it is the latter -- in a performance.

You also wrote:
>>I can't find the obvious acting, but I DO see that Terri was very clingy and was making sure Desiree had someone to cling to. <<

Again interesting... Yes, Terri was clingy, but I think it was acting, acting as if she needed to cling due to grief, but I didn't "feel" her exuding any grief. I saw "an acting as if to express grief," but it wasn't good acting, because it didn't convince me. I did not need to be convinced about anything having to do with Desiree's grief.

Okay...so if I put my finger on my feelings -- what I saw. Desiree was trying to "compose and keep at bay an overpowering grief" to get through the PC. Terri was trying to feign grief to get through the PC.

Finally... the "making sure Desiree had someone to cling to." You see for me, "making sure" would have been standing alongside but respecting body space. Had Desiree wanted to cling, she would have reached out, she did not. Terri moved into her space. I didn't feel it as a polite thing, necessarily. I found it distracting and out of focus. I do not say that to be critical, but just to say that it just all seemed within a picture of "I'm play acting here" -- while the other three seemed focussed on the specific need, which was very real for them.

 

[Emma Peel]

Don't know a thing about Sarah Heartburn. But as Wrinkles said above, I have been accused of being Sarah Burnhardt. I had to get to that post before I even know what Wrinkles was talking about.

So - I get it now!:dance:

If Terri had the acting skill of Sarah Burnhardt, they'd be looking elsewhere for the POI. ahhh...The Divine Sarah.

Of course, I believe that's the whole point of the nickname. So dramatic, she's obviously acting.


http://www.thejewishmuseum.org/site/pages/onlinex.php?id=122&live_stat=Bernhardt

Sarah Bernhardt: The Art of High Drama is the first major museum show ever devoted to the great French actress (1844-1923). Over the course of a remarkable sixty-year career, "the Divine Sarah" established herself as the premier tragedienne in the West. Her very name became synonymous with acting and, long after her death, it continues to exercise a powerful spell on performers and audiences around the world. Born five years after the invention of photography, Bernhardt pioneered the use of modern technologies to disseminate her image, and was the first major stage actress to star in films.

side note: My mother used to call me Sarah Burnhardt whenever my behavior was over-sensitive and over-dramatic as little girl. And as a teen. :angel: LOL. Ahem. Of course, I'm not old enough to have been a fan of the original. Even thought it might seem that way. In fact, my grandmother referred to my mother as Sarah Bernhardt. (Maybe it was genetic.)

I wonder how many WS'ers have been thus labeled by their mothers? Hopefully, I am in good company!

 

[mom_of_five]

BBM~

I always thought that was KH, reaching up behind TH to put his arm around DY's shoulder. That is the part where TH appears to come unglued for a second.

It WAS KH's hand...and that IS exactly when TH's weird reaction took place. Nice catch.

 

[tk71texas]

lol.......i learn so much here

 

[Gnome]

Here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lhpnYOpF58&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=7lhpnYOpF58&feature=related (add the www. for link)

RSBM

Well, this thread pulled me right out of "lurk-mode"....

This conference has always bothered me.... I recall when first seeing this PC at the onset of this case, the thought "What did YOU do?" kept running through my head. My point of reference? I have two Mini Poodles, and on a few occasions when I've been away from home and returned, they will greet me with that same look TH has on her face - it's the eyes - and I can tell immediately they've done something 'naughty', and I say "What did YOU do?"
Although, I have to say my dogs must have better consciences, b/c they will at least show me what they did....

However, the main thing in this video that I haven't seen touched on much, is not so much the eyes, it is the part at about 2:40 into the clip, where she almost "poses" her hand on DY's arm, in a very unnatural way - "under" DY's arm. For some reason that maneuver has always made me feel uneasy about her. Came across as posed/choreographed/unnatural....and spoke volumes to me about her possible guilt, even then. Did I really just say "possible"? lol

I also found it odd, that as the last person to have seen Kyron, one would think she would be beside herself with grief, worry, etc. that she would be the one needing supoort, not giving it, but she also seems to be very aware of the camera and how she wants to "appear". yuk. How DY got through that PC without (as Beth Holloway has put it) "peeling the skin off" TH's face is a hard lesson in restraint. She's a better woman than I!

 

[tragco]

Nice to meet you Tragco!

Thank you for bringing up those points AND seasoning it with what you have been told about reading other people. It helps a bit to put things into perspective about what you have mentioned.

Without reviewing the film first (and I should actually...) My impression from the beginning is that Desiree is stiffened up, as if to firmly hold herself erect (rather than collapse or tremble too much, so to speak, i.e. "be strong"). If I were to guess, another reason for her standing so stiffly was to speak with her body language, "please don't touch me."

You wrote:
>>as if she didn't want Desiree to be standing there by herself with nobody to hang on to.<<

You see, as I looked at the situation... Desiree's body language was not inviting Terri to support her...it was quite the opposite. Were I stiffened up and trembling like she was, I would expect most sensitive people to "catch on" to what I was saying, "This is not the time to touch me." For some reason, Terri didn't read that OR, if she did, she purposely went against Desiree's stance. I think it is the latter -- in a performance.

You also wrote:
>>I can't find the obvious acting, but I DO see that Terri was very clingy and was making sure Desiree had someone to cling to. <<

Again interesting... Yes, Terri was clingy, but I think it was acting, acting as if she needed to cling due to grief, but I didn't "feel" her exuding any grief. I saw "an acting as if to express grief," but it wasn't good acting, because it didn't convince me. I did not need to be convinced about anything having to do with Desiree's grief.

Okay...so if I put my finger on my feelings -- what I saw. Desiree was trying to "compose and keep at bay an overpowering grief" to get through the PC. Terri was trying to feign grief to get through the PC.

Finally... the "making sure Desiree had someone to cling to." You see for me, "making sure" would have been standing alongside but respecting body space. Had Desiree wanted to cling, she would have reached out, she did not. Terri moved into her space. I didn't feel it as a polite thing, necessarily. I found it distracting and out of focus. I do not say that to be critical, but just to say that it just all seemed within a picture of "I'm play acting here" -- while the other three seemed focussed on the specific need, which was very real for them.

Nice to meet you too :wave: Thank you for this post. I rewatched with all this in mind, and I can sure see this part now: Desiree did NOT want to be touched. First Terri hugs, and Desiree reacts by shaking even more and becoming more upset. Desiree is absolutely distraught. THEN Terri, rather than backing off, gets clingier, rubbing on Desiree's arm.

 

[debs]

"I just want to remind all of you, that these folks stand here as a family united..." (paraphrase of what the officer says at the beginning of the video.

What I see is that Desiree is definitely living her opinion that Terri did something to Kyron and makes no overture toward her to comfort her, regardless of the number of times Terri attempts to do that for Desiree.

What everyone sees as Terri being cloying, I see Terri grasping at any straw to stop the isolation and segregation of her from "this united family". I'll leave out whether or not she should have been isolated because she did something to Kyron; what I see is that Terri is already suffering the isolation and wants comfort from others and knows she's not getting it. The floundering, the Sarah Heartburn, it isn't an act. It is the visible disintegration of Terri's place in this foursome.

Those who feel they know can make the assumption of why she should be isolated.

 

[STEADFAST]

I never noticed the little fist movement before. Thanks for pointing that out. I also never noticed that when Terri does the fist thing there is a hand that comes out to console DY. I think it was the female officer.

I'm not sure whose it was, but the hand comes out from the left of Desiree (left, from our perspective) and touches her arm just after Terri makes that move. It's not Kaine's hand because it comes from the opposite side of her as his does, and it's not the officer that we can see because you can still see both of his hands folded in front of him. This is the best screen capture I can get, but it's very easy to see in the video from 2:38 to 2:43. Looks to me like someone is trying to give Desiree support when Terri is starting to cling too closely.

 

[ami]

"I just want to remind all of you, that these folks stand here as a family united..." (paraphrase of what the officer says at the beginning of the video.

What I see is that Desiree is definitely living her opinion that Terri did something to Kyron and makes no overture toward her to comfort her, regardless of the number of times Terri attempts to do that for Desiree.

What everyone sees as Terri being cloying, I see Terri grasping at any straw to stop the isolation and segregation of her from "this united family". I'll leave out whether or not she should have been isolated because she did something to Kyron; what I see is that Terri is already suffering the isolation and wants comfort from others and knows she's not getting it. The floundering, the Sarah Heartburn, it isn't an act. It is the visible disintegration of Terri's place in this foursome.

Those who feel they know can make the assumption of why she should be isolated.

Good interpretation!! I read TH in this as looking guilty, but not "I've just done something inhuman" guilty - more of "don't be mad at me, mommy" guilty. Which is totally weird, considering the number of things she might very well be guilty of. Your interpretation that it's more that she's desperately trying to glue herself back into the integrated family she's somehow no longer part of... is actually very fitting in that scenario and so on-target. In other words, maybe I'm not seeing "guilt" as much as I'm seeing the common result of guilt - that someone is ousted from a group and is sad, shame-faced and trying to ooze back into it.

Just as in someone's example of their dogs behaving this way - it's probably not "guilt" in the dog's mind, but more "I've done something that will isolate me and now I'm gonna try to win back favor so I can be part of the group again".

So interesting. I'm fascinated by this scenario, and repelled by repeated watching of this video... but at the heart of it is so much grief that this woman may have done something so awful to a vulnerable young boy that resulted in this charade.

 

[Mysti88c]

Could it be that the "acting" we see is simply Terri pretending to be sad and/or supportive when she actually does not care much for these people?