Terri H resembles "Sarah Heartburn"?

[STEADFAST]

Anyone have a link to the presser where Desiree reaches out and takes Terri's hand? Or can point me in the right direction to approximate date? I'm having trouble finding the video.

TIA

ETA: Well that was quick lol. I found it. June 13. Right near the very beginning, Desiree reaches out and takes Terri's hand.

http://www.kptv.com/video/23886770/index.html

So strange how differently we see this. I see Terri try to take Desiree's hand, whereupon Desiree pulls her hand away across her body and then push her hair away from her forehead. She then lets it fall to her side, and Terri takes it. Desiree doesn't pull her hand away again, but it's possible she didn't want to make a scene.

 

[Calliope]

TH's blinking has always seemed odd to me so I went searching for an explanation. I don't think I found an answer with this quote, though:



"Blinking is a neat natural process whereby the eyelids wipe the eyes clean, much as a windscreen wiper on a car.

Blink rate tends to increase when people are thinking more. This can be an indication of lying as the liar has to keep thinking about what they are saying. Realizing this, they may also force their eyes open and appear to stare.

Blinking can also indicate rapport, and people who are connected often blink at the same rate. Someone who is listening carefully to you is more likely to blink when you pause (keeping eyes open to watch everything you say).

Beyond natural random blinking, a single blink can signal surprise that the person does not quite believe what they see ('I'll wipe my eyes clean to better see').

Rapid blinking blocks vision and can be an arrogant signal, saying 'I am so important, I do not need to see you'.

Rapid blinking also flutters the eyelashes and can be a coy romantic invitation."

http://changingminds.org/techniques/body/parts_body_language/eyes_body_language.htm

There are plenty of physiologic reasons for abnormal blinking. Including dry eyes, which can be a side effect of medications (certain anti-depressants and BCP for example).

 

[debs]

If I sleep in my contacts, I constantly blink to attempt to make them stop driving me crazy. As you can probably tell, it doesn't always work.

 

[Wrinkles]

It would be interesting to know if behind closed doors before & after these two pressers whether or not TH was offering consolation/comfort to DY, or if the gestures seen on stage were the only time she did so.

--- snipped ---

and

Dr. Ekman himself has stated that "You can see someone being deceptive. That doesn't mean you necessarily know the truth [what they are being deceptive about]."

I am very interested in what you brought up. THANK YOU!

I would like to know the answer to YOUR question and I would add a similar question. "Did Terri seem sincerely grieved in the midst of only Kaine, Desiree and Tony -- as well as surrounding family members -- and did she seem to need comfort/consolation (or to give it) -- like snuggling or touching and leaning, as we saw in the video?"

A "comparison" of behind closed doors and on the stage behavior is important.

I am recalling what, I believe, JBean was good enough to transcribe from one video. Without the quote in hand, Kaine and Desiree started seeing one thing, and then the next and then... i.e. they were seeing things in Terri's behavior or ? Things just weren't fitting together with Terri.

I'm wondering if part of what they eventually saw was "behavior" that was sporadic (such as "on a particular stage" -- with LE, on the PC, with certain people in the room), only good for one place, but not for another and not in a way that "connected" with what they felt was normal and reasonable OR if the things they eventually became concerned about were just due to incoming info from LE.

 

[BeanE]

List of 35 causes of eye blinking:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/symptoms/eye_blinking_symptoms/causes.htm

 

[mauirain]

BBM~

I always thought that was KH, reaching up behind TH to put his arm around DY's shoulder. That is the part where TH appears to come unglued for a second.

Yes, that is what I noticed too. It seems like KH moves his hand from TH shoulder to DY shoulder and at that point, TH seems to move forward and kind of do that weird movement with her arm.....seems almost like she is going to walk off at that moment, but then moves back in between DY & KH. That was so weird to me.

If you watch the video, you can see how she is the only one with this weird, "overkill" behavior. She is definately not in the same state of mind as the others. She is faking her sadness. Reminds me a lot of Susan Smith's behavior at PCs. FAKE

 

[Calliope]

If I sleep in my contacts, I constantly blink to attempt to make them stop driving me crazy. As you can probably tell, it doesn't always work.

I have very dry eyes (and certain meds make it much worse). I blink, squint, rub my eyes (bad, I know), whatever it takes. Most of the time I'm barely aware of what I'm doing. I also blink a lot when I'm trying not to tear up (I hate crying in front of anybody). Just ask the people sitting around me in the theatre last week (too embarrassed to tell you what I was boohooing over). =\

I have no idea why Terri was blinking excessively (and to be honest, I don't see that happening but I guess others do). It could be a sign of *whatever* the body language folks say, or what she does when upset, or just her baseline.

 

[Wrinkles]

IMO, I think LE had already mentioned to all of them that they needed to present a united front on camera. And I think Terri had already started feeling isolated, but she didn't want the rest of the world to see that.
Whether she deserved this isolation or not is a matter of opinion, but I am sure she was trying to project some sort of unity, and it didn't work.
Sometimes LE is clueless about family dynamics.. they should have picked up on this tension between them and not insisted on this appearing all together. Maybe they were hoping it would be noticed so as to shed more bad light on their "suspect."

Hmmm... could you expound a little?

So you think that LE might have noticed her behavior and suggested the PC (or let the 4 of them appear together) so that others could see it and that this would shed more bad light on their "suspect"? I'm a little confused, I'd like to understand your thoughts. I don't think LE could have expected what Terri would do in that PC? I guess this all goes back to what was being seen in private...really great question.

 

[xin]

I've never read that or seen that. Please provide a link so I can read/see it too.

- that Desiree asked the secretary if Terri was there, and the secretary handed the phone to Terri. (I read/saw Desiree say that Desiree and the secretary hung up, and then Desiree called Terri.)

- that Desiree said to Terri "What have you done to him". (I never read/saw this at all.)

I'll look for it; this post is only what I recall, but I'll find it and post and if needed, correct, of course. So, this is important, the possible "excited utterances."

 

[winterrose]

Shoot,I don't know what's going on with any of this,I guess it's all how a person sees it.I saw Desiree devastated and Tony really upset,disturbed and worried,Terri as freaked out,more than likely thinking everyone thinks she's quilty,the first presser Kaine looked like a person who is in a church,everyone is praying,yet the person keeps looking up wondering when everyone will open thier eyes.I think they each had so much on thier mind and they were put up in front of the world,so we're seeing them in shock,exhausted,overwhelmed by what was happening.As most everyone says and is in agreement on,this is the oddest case and all I care about is where Kyron is.

 

[winterrose]

I'll look for it; this post is only what I recall, but I'll find it and post and if needed, correct, of course. So, this is important, the possible "excited utterances."

I believe it was one of the last pressers of Desiree and Kaine together.

 

[Calliope]

I believe it was one of the last pressers of Desiree and Kaine together.

She indicated that it was after the call, where she felt there was something off about it and her 'motherly instincts kicked in' and she wondered what Terri had done to him. IIRC, in another interview she said to Terri something to the effect of, 'What the hell is going on' (or 'what the hell happened').

Young said she began to feel uneasy after getting off the phone with Terri Horman.

"Honestly, my motherly instinct kicked in, and I said that she better not have done anything to my son," Young said. "I just didn't feel right about the conversation. It didn't strike me right."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_mother_recalls_d.html

 

[winterrose]

I know it makes you wonder if Desiree saw or heard some things that would make her think that or is it a mother whose child was raised by someone else and all the anger,regret,even guilt she says she feels is showing?She said they all had a good working relationship in that interview and I've gotten mixed signals from her,is Kaine going to keep Kyron or is she going for custody?They just want him back right now and then I guess all of that will be worked out.I think personally she'll go for custody.But,I don't know what to think about Terri at the pressers,it doesn't look like the same person in pictures with him before this happened.

 

[butterfly1978]

That video has bugged me each time I've watched it. I bet a body language expert could give a really good explanation of the specifics about why it's so "off". I wonder if any have publicly weighed in on it.

The way she puts her head down and leans on DY and KH is really cloying (someone up-thread used that word, it's exactly right...) and feels so suffocating when DY clearly needs to stand stiffly, shaking, hand over stomach, and just get through the next 5 minutes. I imagine she was telling herself she could just completely lose it and weep once they walked off camera.

TMH just looked so much like a child who had been scolded and wants reassurance from mommy and daddy: head down, with almost a pouty, hang-dog don't-be-mad-at-me look. Wanting someone to reassure her, regardless of their own needs, despite the inappropriate environment for a long snuggly hug. Casting those looks from under her lowered eyes to see what the reaction was. That one point when she wiped her nose while looking up at DY as if she was checking to see if she was being observed being "sad". Creepy. You don't see shock and disbelief. Just a "sad face".

OMG, I totally agree with your analysis,, what I would like to add about this that I also see, is that Terris look is more of a worried look but its not the same type of worry that the rest of the family have its not an OMG Where is Kyron completely freaked out with worry look, its more like the worried look a drug dealer gives an officer when they get stopped and the officer asks to search the car, like the OH $hit how am I going to get out of this.
While you can see in the rest of the families faces shock, you can see Terri's little wheels in her head spinning like shes trying to think, it completely unnatural while every one elses reactions seemed natural.

 

[xin]

BEAN E I found it!
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/live_video_watch_the_kyron_hor.html

Thurs July 8, first presser with Desiree and Kaine, local media questions. The start through 2 minutes (but all fascinating) is where:
Kaine talks about the day
Desiree talks about the phone calls (from school and then to Terri in the school office) and first use of word *missing*
Desiree talks about mother's instinct and then continues to express "You better not have done anything to him"
Desiree getting the creeps from Terri at the family press conf.

KEY KEY interview

 

[CarmelEyesD]

You know what I saw in Terri's mannerisms and behavior? Someone who was very unsure of herself in very uncomfortable surroundings and situation. Kinda like I felt the first time I was in a Catholic church-I kept sneaking peeks at others. I got my cues from them-when to sit, when to pick up the hymnal, etc. I was very NOT confident, I was so nervous... and so afraid of making the wrong move or doing the wrong thing. This is the impression I had of Terri. She wanted to make everyone else feel better, but at the same time was scared of making a 'wrong' move. She was probably already aware everyone's eyes were literally 'on her'.

 

[Calliope]

BEAN E I found it!
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/live_video_watch_the_kyron_hor.html

Thurs July 8, first presser with Desiree and Kaine, local media questions. The start through 2 minutes (but all fascinating) is where:
Kaine talks about the day
Desiree talks about the phone calls (from school and then to Terri in the school office) and first use of word *missing*
Desiree talks about mother's instinct and then continues to express "You better not have done anything to him"
Desiree getting the creeps from Terri at the family press conf.

KEY KEY interview

The same one I posted above; she didn't say that to Terri. The reporter was asking for her reaction to the call. She's talking about what she felt after talking to Terri, how she felt about the conversation.

 

[Calliope]

You know what I saw in Terri's mannerisms and behavior? Someone who was very unsure of herself in very uncomfortable surroundings and situation. Kinda like I felt the first time I was in a Catholic church-I kept sneaking peeks at others. I got my cues from them-when to sit, when to pick up the hymnal, etc. I was very NOT confident, I was so nervous... and so afraid of making the wrong move or doing the wrong thing. This is the impression I had of Terri. She wanted to make everyone else feel better, but at the same time was scared of making a 'wrong' move. She was probably already aware everyone's eyes were literally 'on her'.

Desiree says she doesn't hide her emotions or what she feels, so if she immediately felt Terri was responsible, then I'm sure Terri picked up on that from at least Desiree and Tony.

 

[BeanE]

BEAN E I found it!
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/live_video_watch_the_kyron_hor.html

Thurs July 8, first presser with Desiree and Kaine, local media questions. The start through 2 minutes (but all fascinating) is where:
Kaine talks about the day
Desiree talks about the phone calls (from school and then to Terri in the school office) and first use of word *missing*
Desiree talks about mother's instinct and then continues to express "You better not have done anything to him"
Desiree getting the creeps from Terri at the family press conf.

KEY KEY interview

Yes, that's what I remembered, that Desiree called Terry, and that she didn't say "What have you done to him".

Thanks for looking it up.

I've never read that or seen that. Please provide a link so I can read/see it too.

- that Desiree asked the secretary if Terri was there, and the secretary handed the phone to Terri. (I read/saw Desiree say that Desiree and the secretary hung up, and then Desiree called Terri.)

- that Desiree said to Terri "What have you done to him". (I never read/saw this at all.)

 

[Caligram]

It's hard to not "see" this strange behavior in Terri. Each time you re-watch it, you become more convinced that Terri isn't grieving, she is busy trying to portray grief. In my opinion, that is how it plays out.