Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #8 One Suspect Dead; One in Custody

[PoirotryInMotion]

BBM Excuse me, but is there something wrong with wanting the truth in any and all situations? I don't believe everything I hear and not much of what I see. To each their own, but when you direct something "at any and all "truthers" out there," I feel insulted, and wonder why anyone needs to degrade those who want truth, and feel they may not be getting it.

Well, "truthers" might be a misnomer, unfortunately, considering some of the unfounded speculation mixed in with some theories. But I agree with you on this important truth--there is NOTHING wrong with wanting the truth and seeking for it, digging deeper as things seemingly get mired. And the messing with the facts does indeed encourage and fuel conspiracy-theorists, as the Salon article points out:

Important details like the suspects' weapons, NYC plans and the shootout keep changing. It's fueling conspiracies.
~ Alex Seitz-Wald
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/the_changing_facts_in_the_boston_investigation/

This is the point I tried to make earlier. The very people/agencies America needs most to trust at this time should be consistently taking great pains to show themselves worthy of that trust. Doesn't matter so much (to me) when shots were fired--just tell me the truth so I don't feel 'played' later when the 'truth' changes.

Nothing will more inspire my lack of trust than that ugly feeling.

 

[ami]

I strenuously disagree. If the public did not want the news IMMEDIATELY, STAT, LE and the media would not be cramming false info down our throats without verification first. The media is public-driven. It tries to satiate our desires. Otherwise, like all market-driven enterprises, it'll go out of business. As for why LE jumped the gun instead of providing details upon completion of their investigation, simple, they were feeling ecstatic at DT's capture and TT's death, so they wanted to celebrate and made overconfident statements in order to relish in the moment. They had caught two murderous fiends who were intent on destroying America so their statements were understandable in that context.

I don't find them understandable. They are heroes. They did heroic work. But they also knowingly lied and bragged to the media - AND to their own Chief of Police, who repeated their fabricated statements! I'm sorry, but they need to be BETTER than that. They need to be honest and trustworthy when they are on the clock. Their job doesn't end with handcuffing bad guys - they have to relay honest information to their superiors, ESPECIALLY about the events surrounding a terrorist attack. Excusing lies that became public statements made by law enforcement officials during a terror investigation that will at some point go to trial? I'm sorry - no. Surely those are the moments when honesty and credibility are MORE important than ever.

 

[KMouse]

So now the mother is saying America took her kids away. Ummm okay. Each day it gets better and better.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The night DT was captured I was glued to the TV (and the scanner thread here).
Many things happened somewhat differently as I remember them, than the way they were reported afterwards. I remember a ton of gunfire early and the scanner screaming hold your fire, hold your fire, and the gunfire went on for quite some time. I do remember them changing out for less lethal type ammo, but I do remember it being later on, when the Tactical Team got there. I do realize that my memory may be faulty as well...
BUT, what I remember MOST that night was the horrible feeling I got watching Obama. He was very, very visibly upset - it looked like anger. Both people watching it in the room with me remarked that they don't remember ever seeing him so visibly pissed off. Someone I was with was speculating that Obama and the Feds were the ones who wanted DT alive and in one piece (for questioning) and maybe DT was severely injured in the take down, possibly even fatally, by the local LE.
I wasn't big on that theory at the time, but I am coming around now. Maybe all these reports about "self inflicted gunshots" was a story circulated to take heat off for over reacting and shooting at essentially, an unarmed boat. I do know when the head Boston Police guy at the scene had a press conference Tuesday night (saw it on CNN) he was asked if a gun was found with DT and he claimed "it was still under investigation" and he looked rather... uncomfortable.
I am not blaming anyone here... but they did over react according to the way they are trained to deal with this type of circumstance, (understandably given the high emotion), I just think a lot of the muddled info is spin that is being used to make everything look like it was all controlled and done according to protocol, when in fact, listening that night one realized it was a mad scene that was entirely out of control.

Thanks for this post. I had the same glued-to-scanner-and-reports experience. And I've had the same reactions since then with the reporting, news conferences, etc. I'm as patriotic as they come, but I also put a high value on truthfulness. I don't expect perfection from LE and investigators and I think Americans are prepared to overlook and not fault any of them for any of what happened in the 'fog' of battle. But Tell Me the Truth. If you're not forthcoming with me, there's no overlooking that.

 

[elmomom]

Thanks for this post. I had the same glued-to-scanner and reports experience. And I've had the same reactions since then with the reporting, news conferences, etc. I'm as patriotic as they come, but I also put a high value on truthfulness. I don't expect perfection from LE and investigators and I think Americans are prepared to overlook and not fault any of them for any of what happened in the 'fog' of battle. But Tell Me the Truth. If you're not forthcoming with me, there's no overlooking that.

The truth can be a double edged sword. Letting us (patriotic Americans) know what went right and also what went wrong, makes us appear fallible to those who seek to do us harm, and also gives our enemies information that they may be able to take advantage of in later terrorist acts.
I just wish things would go perfectly and there would be no reason for "spin". lol, I am dreamer.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

So now the mother is saying America took her kids away. Ummm okay. Each day it gets better and better.

Something just dawned on me...

The reports on the net & in the media that we here in the USA see could be very different compared to what others in the world see. I know in North Korea, only certain stations are available on television and Internet use is limited to certain sites. I saw this reported on CNN and couldn't believe it, so I went to my library to validate it. Its true. So now I'm wondering if it could be similar reporting in the area where the Tsarnaev family lives. If so, that would account for why this woman appears to be a crazy conspiracy theorist. Maybe the info related or available to her is limited and slanted...

 

[noodled1]

As I had said, time and time again, someone -- whether LE or media or what have you -- jumped the gun in their reports. It takes time to assess and analyze real evidence. But nowadays with twitter, facebook, etc., everyone wants news in real time and even faster so there's bound to be rumors and misinformation. I think the public needs to learn that in order to get the most accurate news, we have to be more patient and allow TIME before details about a newsstory becomes clear. As is, if we want news in real time, we'll have to accept broad outlines of events without actual details and await the details to come in (much) later reportings.

Yep

This is what I said on that last night...

There was a massive LE presence involved from several different agencies using all the various layers within each agency. Thousands upon thousands of LE officers

Along with that came a massive media presence from all over the world.

The bombing and manhunt was witnessed live by literally thousands of people who had to live through it

I'm not surprised one bit that the stories don't always jive. The main story line has been consistent for the most part but the subtle story lines within the big story have been varied and seem to take a few days to work themselves out

 

[mysterious minds]

Has Suspect 2 been charged with vehicular homicide? If he did indeed run over his brother, wouldn't the police have to charge him? If he hasn't been charged with that, do we read into it?
I am not a "truther" or a conspiracy theorist, I simply want to believe our authorities at every level and "reputable" news sources. Since the bombings occurred, I have chosen WS as my first and only stop. Ask my husband, he laughs about it. When the story broke, I immediately logged onto this site. And since then, I have only relied on what I read here. I turn to this website because I know that each of you want to filter out the nonsense as well. Unfortunately, the past week has made it difficult for any of us to do and I'm tempted to be an ostrich until the trial plays out.

 

[noodled1]

I'm not on board with the "conspiracy theorists" at all but all the backpack stuff is really odd to me.The backpack DT had on is clearly seen back in his apartment ? why would he have 2 backpacks that are the same?

Well it's said they did buy 6 pressure cookers, so far we know where three of them went.

 

[ami]

Thanks for this post. I had the same glued-to-scanner and reports experience. And I've had the same reactions since then with the reporting, news conferences, etc. I'm as patriotic as they come, but I also put a high value on truthfulness. I don't expect perfection from LE and investigators and I think Americans are prepared to overlook and not fault any of them for any of what happened in the 'fog' of battle. But Tell Me the Truth. If you're not forthcoming with me, there's no overlooking that.

I don't know about their bosses, the feds, the President, etc., would have felt about it, but I think the public would have fully understood if they said that he was a dangerous child-killing possible suicide-bomber who had just engaged in an open shoot out and bomb fest in a residential neighborhood filled with civilians, and although their goal was to take him in alive, their first priority was to keep the citizens safe and therefore they were going to shoot him if necessary. Hey - if I lived in those shoot-out houses with my children? I say shoot to kill if necessary! He kills cops and little kids and then escapes and blows more stuff up. Sure - info would be great, but not having more dead people, possible new ones getting shot through the window in their own bedroom, would also be great.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I strenuously disagree. If the public did not want the news IMMEDIATELY, STAT, LE and the media would not be cramming false info down our throats without verification first. The media is public-driven. It tries to satiate our desires. Otherwise, like all market-driven enterprises, it'll go out of business. As for why LE jumped the gun instead of providing details upon completion of their investigation, simple, they were feeling ecstatic at DT's capture and TT's death, so they wanted to celebrate and made overconfident statements in order to relish in the moment. They had caught two murderous fiends who were intent on destroying America so their statements were understandable in that context.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I grew up in the age of newspapers. I can wait for LE to determine the truth and media then to report it. There is nothing wrong with LE saying "that has not been determined at this time." I do agree with your point that we are a STAT society. But I disagree that that absolves LE from responsibility in reporting the barest of facts truthfully. IOW, I don't see them waiting a week to let the public know DT was unarmed as 'being overconfident.' I see it as neglecting an important point that must have been known to them immediately, so was obviously side-stepped, in order to...what? Make them seem more heroic? Not mar the glory-party? Any of those are stupid reasons. It would NOT have marred the victory...and they should trust the American public more than that instead of playing them.

Sorry, but I detest and loathe DECEIT. No matter who practices it. Not necessarily all the people who practice it (hey my own kids have used it), but always the practice OF it, towards me.

 

[21merc7]

Has Suspect 2 been charged with vehicular homicide? If he did indeed run over his brother, wouldn't the police have to charge him? If he hasn't been charged with that, do we read into it?
I am not a "truther" or a conspiracy theorist, I simply want to believe our authorities at every level and "reputable" news sources. Since the bombings occurred, I have chosen WS as my first and only stop. Ask my husband, he laughs about it. When the story broke, I immediately logged onto this site. And since then, I have only relied on what I read here. I turn to this website because I know that each of you want to filter out the nonsense as well. Unfortunately, the past week has made it difficult for any of us to do and I'm tempted to be an ostrich until the trial plays out.

I don't think all the charges have been given yet. I think I read that the State is okay with the Federal Government taking all of them, just going on memory.

Have no idea if they will bring in TT's death, especially since the ME hasn't given an official COD yet we can't even guess. Guess we all have to wait and see.

 

[21merc7]

Just thinking to myself, and adding it out loud here:

Hmm..what facts has LE directly given us so far?

I think media listens to scanner and other outlets and jumps to conclusions just as we do here. I'm not okay with that, but it is what has been happening for a few years now.

 

[Elainera]

I'm not following... who is putting up a front to protect themselves?

The parents. To protect themselves in Russia from other radicals who might not like if they'd publicly condemn what their sons did. - It's just a theory.

What is the theory that the most simplest explanation is typically the correct one?

snipped for space and bbm

It's Occam's razor And very likely applicable here!

I'm not on board with the "conspiracy theorists" at all but all the backpack stuff is really odd to me.The backpack DT had on is clearly seen back in his apartment ? why would he have 2 backpacks that are the same?

I remember Anderson Cooper attempting to explain this and it was quite good: they could each have had one backpack inside another. They took the inner backpacks, which contained the bombs, out and walked away still carrying the same backpacks as before the bombs went off.

Yes, this makes a lot more sense than the gibberish that was given out by the media the past few days re: the two brothers wanting to only "PARTY" in Manhattan.

One need only ask, why the heck would the two brothers be armed with ammunition -- grenades, another pressure cooker bomb, gun, etc. -- if they were only intending to party in NYC? Someone in LE was not thinking clearly and should not have accepted the younger brother DT's statements made in the hospital at face-value. I even saw NYC Commissioner Ray Kelly repeating the same ludicrous statement, that the two brothers were driving down to NYC "only to party", that they had no intention of bombing the city.

Just because DT said so upon one interview, doesn't mean it is so. Why take the words of a terrorist at face-value? Don't you think his words are motivated out of self-interest to make him and his brother TT look good?! VERIFY and cross-check with available evidence before making your gaffe statements, LE AND media. You're making yourselves look like bungling idiots.

bbm

I and others here asked this very question too when it was first reported that they planned to "party". I'm not surprised by today's news.

It sounds to me as if he's cooperating and talking (at least until lawyers stopped him). What do you guys think?

I predict he will show remorse soon.


I just remembered something I read somewhere about a week ago, which was then unconfirmed but makes sense now: that FBI had heard "chatter" which was suspected to be about the bombers/the bombing and included the word "Manhatten". Apparently the chatter wasn't clear enough to understand more, but if that is true it might point to other people knowing very well who the bombers were and what they had planned next.

Does anyone here remember this?

 

[time]

<snip>
I just remembered something I read somewhere about a week ago, which was then unconfirmed but makes sense now: that FBI had heard "chatter" which was suspected to be about the bombers/the bombing and included the word "Manhatten". Apparently the chatter wasn't clear enough to understand more, but if that is true it might point to other people knowing very well who the bombers were and what they had planned next.

Does anyone here remember this?

Wasn't that from the guy who got hijacked.. and they thought maybe he misunderstood what they were saying due to speaking Russian or with an accent.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The truth can be a double edged sword. Letting us (patriotic Americans) know what went right and also what went wrong, makes us appear fallible to those who seek to do us harm, and also gives our enemies information that they may be able to take advantage of in later terrorist acts.
I just wish things would go perfectly and there would be no reason for "spin". lol, I am dreamer.

Well, I for one have only fallible heroes. (They're all human.)

True that some truth is sensitive, but I think most would have no trouble with their saying 'no comment' in that case. Yeah, I'm a dreamer, too.

 

[Isabelle]

Just home from wallyworld. Cnn to have cab driver that gave DT and TT a ride on day of marathon bombing! Now

 

[bourne]

I don't find them understandable. They are heroes. They did heroic work. But they also knowingly lied and bragged to the media - AND to their own Chief of Police, who repeated their fabricated statements! I'm sorry, but they need to be BETTER than that. They need to be honest and trustworthy when they are on the clock. Their job doesn't end with handcuffing bad guys - they have to relay honest information to their superiors, ESPECIALLY about the events surrounding a terrorist attack. Excusing lies that became public statements made by law enforcement officials during a terror investigation that will at some point go to trial? I'm sorry - no. Surely those are the moments when honesty and credibility are MORE important than ever.

I said I found LE's overstatements understandable WITHIN THE CONTEXT. In other words, given their overexcitement about the capture of DT and the death of his terrorist brother TT, I can see why they exaggerated and jumped the gun on misstating info. That's not the same as saying I agree with their misinformation! I too believe they should not have made these erroneous statements. We're not in disagreement about their foolish gaffe.

 

[21merc7]

Wasn't that from the guy who got hijacked.. and they thought maybe he misunderstood what they were saying due to speaking Russian or with an accent.

Yes, that was from the man that was carjacked.

Williams said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” that the carjacking victim had heard the suspects - who were speaking in a foreign language - use the word “Manhattan.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/boston-suspects-carjacking-victim_n_3133036.html

 

[bessie]

MOD NOTE: WS has a general rule against bashing LE. Criticism over the latest development will be allowed if it is 1) reasonable; 2) specific to the issue at hand (gunfire during DT's capture); and 3) supported by the facts.

General bashing of LE will not be allowed, and could result in an interruption of posting privileges (TO).

Thanks.