Testimonies 10/16/08

[boxy]

1. Brad and Nancy had already retained separate counsel, which is why there were 2 drafts of a separation agreement sent to Brad. The separation was initiated by Nancy in March.

2. Brad removed the passports after seeing the separation agreements (in April).

3. Brad could have asked his lawyer to address the passport issue since he had already retained counsel.

4. Brad removed both passports and took them to his office. Brad did not say this was on the advice of his attorney. Brad retained 'control.'

5. You asked if there were other ways Brad could have dealt with the passport issue. I gave you an example.

BC did not have a divorce lawyer. He spoke with one but his check bounced and they didn't call him back. At least, that's how I remember his depo.

 

[boxy]

He knew darn well she wouldn't leave without the children. Of course it was control.

Why did NC have to leave with the children? Was that her right to take them?

 

[Anderson]

The custody hearing is about whether the girls have been abused, neglected, or abandoned. If the judge does not find that there is clear and convincing evidenced that they have been, then they are returned to BC.

Sasser is also considering the 'elephant in the room.' As you know, she is trying to determine if BC murdered NC. I believe that RC is pointing out that the evidence presented related to control of money and finances may be understood as a motive for murder. I don't know how the Judge uses this information in her determination. It will be interesting to find out what her decision will be.

 

[Anderson]

He at first TOLD her to take the kids and go to Canada and he never wanted to see them again. And Krista came down to help Nancy pack to make that happen. BC saw how much it was going to cost him, and he changed her moving plans and took one of the passports. The one was all that he needed to take. (Do we actually have notice that he only took one from someone other than BC?). Nancy would not go without one of her babies. And he refused the notion of separate maintainance. Big time control, there. She could not work, could not support herself, would not abandon a child.

(However, an interesting fact is that, once confronted with the actual 24/7 care and control of a child, a male parent with limited parenting skills often will change his mind about custody - since it usually isn't about the child at all. It's about control of the mother).

He was basically holding Nancy against her will, using the strongest card a man can use against a woman - her children.

Thanks for posting your thoughts on this, Star. Very powerful.

 

[rwesafe]

Why did NC have to leave with the children? Was that her right to take them?

She did not have to, she wanted to. It was not her right to take them without his consent. But many here feel that despite the fact that his consent is required by LAW, with or without a passport, because he physically held the girls passports that he was just being controlling. Does not make much sense.

 

[petra]

The custody hearing is about whether the girls have been abused, neglected, or abandoned. If the judge does not find that there is clear and convincing evidenced that they have been, then they are returned to BC.

IMO, I hope more is taken into consideration than the past tense here.
I fully suspect that the near future well being of the girls will be taken under consideration.

BC, imo, will not be able to keep up his past life style. Working FT, living in the same house, day care, club memberships, etc. He now has even more credit card debt due to putting the legal and psych fees on the cards.
If his mom comes to watch the girls full time for a year, I hope he has started or completed the process of her being able to stay in USA for more than 3 months at a time. Otherwise she will have to leave and come back ,etc. The girls in their short lives have also been closer to the maternal family not the paternal side. (vacations, holidays, visits from NC family, past three months, etc.)

So what does the near and short term future bring for the well being of the children.

- a father/household that is so in debt and will only add more debt due to legal bills.

- an eminent foreclosure, bankrptcy, downsizing, or sale of house and furnishes, move from their only known residence- without their mother's assistance and prescence.

-a father than will continue to be consumed in the legal process concerning the murder of his wife. Innocent, guilty-it doesn't matter. BC will still have to be heavily involved in bringing the murderer to justice.

-more emotional involvement of BC with children, since he is sole surviving parent--also more involvement with school, children's friends, activities and any psychologial follow up and counselling they will need regarding loss of their mother./ loss of maternal family contact/ impending move/new full time caretaker who they do not have a very close relationship, etc.

Just some thoughts, imo.
This is a bleak, painful near and short term future these little girls look forward to anyway it plays out.

I do not believe because BC is their father that he has any "right "to only add more turmoil and burden his children with so many up coming life changes.

No parent does. These are little human beings with fears, feelings, thoughts being shaped everyday. Do they really need extra misery now, when all is still so uncertain??

 

[petra]

BC may be mourning the murder of his wife and unable to proceed with daily realities.

But, life goes on, and if he wants full custody of his two little girls, he needs to get his act together and fast!!! IMO

He has to get his finances straightened out, that house should be put up for sale, sell the extra car, cash out all his pensions, pay off his debt-sell the artwork, furniture, rent a 3 bedroom apartment...WHATEVER...
BC should be taking action now and last month or get someone who can do it for him. His old life is over. The murder of his wife will continue to be investigated. This will take even more of his time, after returning to work FT.

BC has to move into ironman mode!!!!!!

This is the biggest challenge of his life!!!!

 

[petra]

I would like to thank mt3kids and SG as to all other locals and regulars for their insight and posts.
I have been only a reader in the past .

Also a happy birthday to mom and I hope you enjoy your new appliances!:blowkiss:

Question--Why does BC refer to where he lives as "the residence" rather than our home or house? This is in depos.
Is this regional-NC, Canadian? Just seems very detached to me.

IMO

 

[momto3kids]

I would like to thank mt3kids and SG as to all other locals and regulars for their insight and posts.
I have been only a reader in the past .

Also a happy birthday to mom and I hope you enjoy your new appliances!:blowkiss:

Question--Why does BC refer to where he lives as "the residence" rather than our home or house? This is in depos.
Is this regional-NC, Canadian? Just seems very detached to me.

IMO

Thank You Peta for the wishes.

As to 'the residence' it is not a term we are accustomed to hearing in NC. It is more a formal term I expect to see on applications for jobs, credit, etc.
Maybe someone from Canada can answer.
Amazing how everyone catches something different when listening to the depos.

OT....One I do hear sometimes is, "I need to head home to the wife or Mrs." It is meant heading to the house because she has supper about ready, or to relieve her of the kids, or plans they have together (going out to eat), etc. Please understand this is not said in an ugly or demeaning way at all when it is said.

 

[Jess]

" The residence" -- probably something his lawyers coached him to say, certainly not a "Canadian" term ! I noticed that as well but again thought he had been over some of his testimony with his lawyers and that's what they suggested.


OR-- it never felt like a home to him, just something he paid for...
OR-- he could have killed Nancy there and it is easier to deal with if he calls it the residence !

 

[petra]

" The residence" -- probably something his lawyers coached him to say, certainly not a "Canadian" term ! I noticed that as well but again thought he had been over some of his testimony with his lawyers and that's what they suggested.


OR-- it never felt like a home to him, just something he paid for...
OR-- he could have killed Nancy there and it is easier to deal with if he calls it the residence !

Thanks mom and jess.
Yes, it is interesting how different actions, mannerisims, words catch different people's attention.

Jess-these are the same thoughts I have.

If he is asking/hoping for custody of his girls, the thought of his repeating 'the residence'' many times, makes my hair stand on end.

This is their home, their neighborhood, the children's playmates and family friends live nearby. The custody issue is NOT about BC--but about his little girls, who may have to go back to 'the residence'' with their 'murdered mom's things all about. So sad.

Since english is not my first language, or second or third, I was glad to hear responses about the use of the word residence. Not what I was taught in English class!!!

 

[momto3kids]

Why did NC have to leave with the children? Was that her right to take them?

At the time their marriage escalated to wanting a seperation BC had only been a small presence in the girl's life. NC most likely felt she was a single parent so possibly an entitlement to having them, feeling their daddy hardly knew them.

Sure, it doesn't mean he is a bad dad.

Ask any parent or yourself if you are a parent, what would your reaction be if your spouse asked for a divorce and to take your children? I know mine is, you can leave, the kids stay, don't let the door hit you in the :behind: Some would be angry and say what BC said, but after sleeping on it know they didn't mean it. This is not what BC did...

What BC did was.....
a)He told her to go to Canada and take the girls, he never wanted to see them again, basically get out.
b)He willing obtained the girls passports on March 14. He gave NC a green light to move on.
c)They together prepare the home to market, per his affidavit he did participate.
This went on for many weeks, he went thru the motion of get them the hexx out, to move to Canada.

It shows to me he really did want them gone...until when, reality kicked in?
Reality should have kicked in way before it did.

IMO, NC knew BC had no real connection with the girls, more just a presence when he was home. If this was the case in my home I would feel I had the right to my kids.

 

[momto3kids]

Thanks mom and jess.
Yes, it is interesting how different actions, mannerisims, words catch different people's attention.

Jess-these are the same thoughts I have.

If he is asking/hoping for custody of his girls, the thought of his repeating 'the residence'' many times, makes my hair stand on end.

This is their home, their neighborhood, the children's playmates and family friends live nearby. The custody issue is NOT about BC--but about his little girls, who may have to go back to 'the residence'' with their 'murdered mom's things all about. So sad.

Since english is not my first language, or second or third, I was glad to hear responses about the use of the word residence. Not what I was taught in English class!!!

My bet is he will move and not stay there. If he stays in NC and doesn't transfer with Cisco he will move closer to his job. He will hear mommy's room, mommy's this and that....he will have to face the neighbors who feel he doesn't deserve the girls, NC friends @ the pre-school. Nope, not BC, he will change location.

His permanent residence in not going to be too far away from where he lives now, but that will obviously take some time to get him there. That will be a totally different trial.

 

[petra]

At the time their marriage escalated to wanting a seperation BC had only been a small presence in the girl's life. NC most likely felt she was a single parent so possibly an entitlement to having them, feeling their daddy hardly knew them.

================Snipped===============





It shows to me he really did want them gone...until when, reality kicked in?
Reality should have kicked in way before it did.

IMO, NC knew BC had no real connection with the girls, more just a presence when he was home. If this was the case in my home I would feel I had the right to my kids.

I agree mom. Until Jan 2008, he was finishing the MBA, then started training again...etc,etc,

I wanted to change your words (that I bolded) into his...as used in depo.


IMO, NC knew BC had no real connection with the girls, more just a presence when he was in residence.

And when the king or queen are in residence at one of their homes, the national flag must be displayed.!!!! just my point of view. and the way the word residence is mainly used!

 

[petra]

My bet is he will move and not stay there. If he stays in NC and doesn't transfer with Cisco he will move closer to his job. He will hear mommy's room, mommy's this and that....he will have to face the neighbors who feel he doesn't deserve the girls, NC friends @ the pre-school. Nope, not BC, he will change location.

His permanent residence in not going to be too far away from where he lives now, but that will obviously take some time to get him there. That will be a totally different trial.

I just wish he would have moved/or will move before he regains custody of the girls, IF he does.
BC must think of them first. IMO

 

[ncsu95]

IMO, I hope more is taken into consideration than the past tense here.
I fully suspect that the near future well being of the girls will be taken under consideration.

BC, imo, will not be able to keep up his past life style. Working FT, living in the same house, day care, club memberships, etc. He now has even more credit card debt due to putting the legal and psych fees on the cards.
If his mom comes to watch the girls full time for a year, I hope he has started or completed the process of her being able to stay in USA for more than 3 months at a time. Otherwise she will have to leave and come back ,etc. The girls in their short lives have also been closer to the maternal family not the paternal side. (vacations, holidays, visits from NC family, past three months, etc.)

So what does the near and short term future bring for the well being of the children.

- a father/household that is so in debt and will only add more debt due to legal bills.

- an eminent foreclosure, bankrptcy, downsizing, or sale of house and furnishes, move from their only known residence- without their mother's assistance and prescence.

-a father than will continue to be consumed in the legal process concerning the murder of his wife. Innocent, guilty-it doesn't matter. BC will still have to be heavily involved in bringing the murderer to justice.

-more emotional involvement of BC with children, since he is sole surviving parent--also more involvement with school, children's friends, activities and any psychologial follow up and counselling they will need regarding loss of their mother./ loss of maternal family contact/ impending move/new full time caretaker who they do not have a very close relationship, etc.

Just some thoughts, imo.
This is a bleak, painful near and short term future these little girls look forward to anyway it plays out.

I do not believe because BC is their father that he has any "right "to only add more turmoil and burden his children with so many up coming life changes.

No parent does. These are little human beings with fears, feelings, thoughts being shaped everyday. Do they really need extra misery now, when all is still so uncertain??

Wow, that's a whole lot of unreasonable speculation. I doubt he is anywhere close to foreclosure or bankruptcy....the guy does make $120k+. I doubt he'll be consumed in the legal process. he won't need to do anything unless they arrest him...and it doesn't look like they have enough to do so, and probably never will. There are plenty of single fathers out there, he won't be the first. These are his kids and he should have custody.

 

[ncsu95]

BC may be mourning the murder of his wife and unable to proceed with daily realities.

But, life goes on, and if he wants full custody of his two little girls, he needs to get his act together and fast!!! IMO

He has to get his finances straightened out, that house should be put up for sale, sell the extra car, cash out all his pensions, pay off his debt-sell the artwork, furniture, rent a 3 bedroom apartment...WHATEVER...
BC should be taking action now and last month or get someone who can do it for him. His old life is over. The murder of his wife will continue to be investigated. This will take even more of his time, after returning to work FT.

BC has to move into ironman mode!!!!!!

This is the biggest challenge of his life!!!!

Huh? He's already returned to work full time. And again, he makes $120k+...I think he'll manage from a financial standpoint.

 

[petra]

Wow, that's a whole lot of unreasonable speculation. I doubt he is anywhere close to foreclosure or bankruptcy....the guy does make $120k+. I doubt he'll be consumed in the legal process. he won't need to do anything unless they arrest him...and it doesn't look like they have enough to do so, and probably never will. There are plenty of single fathers out there, he won't be the first. These are his kids and he should have custody.

Speculation?
Not from where I sit.
Did you listen to his depos on his finances?
They were posted before. I can list them all again, but pls take a look.
His checks are bouncing and he is putting his custody legal fees on a credit card!! He has 10,000 in the bank. Has 2nd, 3rd mortgages on his home...on and on...

 

[momto3kids]

I agree mom. Until Jan 2008, he was finishing the MBA, then started training again...etc,etc,

I wanted to change your words (that I bolded) into his...as used in depo.


IMO, NC knew BC had no real connection with the girls, more just a presence when he was in residence.

And when the king or queen are in residence at one of their homes, the national flag must be displayed.!!!! just my point of view. and the way the word residence is mainly used!

residence :floorlaugh:

I think his beginning to train again in 2008 has hurt him to some point. It shows his continual involvement away from home again instead of at home with the family. Is this when NC said enough is enough?

I will say per testimony by Dr Hilkey...BC family has high expectations. It is a high achieving family. I don't know if it was so much NC wanting him to get the MBA as he has indicated for her thinking it would produce a higher income, or him trying to please his family, still to this day.

 

[petra]

Huh? He's already returned to work full time. And again, he makes $120k+...I think he'll manage from a financial standpoint.

He hasn't been able to manage the past few years...and he doesn't even have the childrens'' day to day expenses now, unless he is paying KL child support, which I have not heard.