GUILTY Thailand - David Miller, 24, & Hannah Witheridge, 23, Koh Tao, 15 Sep 2014

[PainExpress]

Thai people generally aren't big on making threats.

'The tongue has no bone'

SM story doesn't ring true.

Source- Living with Thai

 

[hunch77]

I've never been to Thailand and wouldn't dare to post on some of the sites that people have cited, but I've never been judged for expressing my opinion here eace: ! Having read the posts on the Koh Tao FB page, Thai Visa and local news sites, I agree it looks like SM is freaking out (even if he didn't know David, it's a pretty horrific thing to be caught up in, regardless of how "psychologically stable" you may be). - by his own admission, he got drunk; sounds like he then mouthed off about his feelings/theories - possibly throwing out a few wild accusations - which has riled the local expat community (assuming they're not 'in' with the mafia). And now he's terrified of retribution. He's not responsible for what happened to Hannah - he may have witnessed something or just become extremely paranoid, but even if he's lying about this, his DNA has cleared him.

Given the backlash from people on the island, I thought he might just be a media hungry fantasist, but when I read into it, it sounds like he was genuinely scared (he called his mother, girlfriend, Thai police and the British Embassy - although who has their number on speed dial??).

Someone posted earlier that it's interesting that a number of Western news outlets have picked this up but not Thai (this may have changed) - I agree, but it could also be Western journalists clutching at anything they have because the Thai police are not being very forthcoming...

Sorry if this has been posted previously, but is there a link indicating that SM was a friend of DM at uni?

http://www.khmer440.com/chat_forum/...id=8a0e211dad4d7fdd364ca83dd75f84e0&start=180 ?

"Mr McAnna met Mr Miller last year while both men were living in Leeds. He was the singer and guitarist in a Leeds band called These Fading Polaroids and Mr Miller was an engineering student. Both lived in the Hyde Park area.

Mr McAnna said he recently returned to Koh Tao - where he had previously spent 18 months living and working as a barman - and had planned but failed to meet Mr Miller on the night he and Ms Witheridge were murdered." <quoted from that page

sorry for any confusion guys....I think I had misread that they had lived together!

 

[gia2]

I concur gia2. There is alot of information missing right now. I was just responding in part to some of what comes across like pure venom directed towards him on koh tao fb group and also wanted to offer some objective balance to judgements of his character that are being drawn from his twitter account and fb by contextualising this notion of "crazy."
It may be that he was not popular character in that small community, which would actually make him a very likely candidate for scapegoating....

I wasn't sure if my earlier post came across as me writing him off as a liar or something so thought I'd clarify just in case

I definitely agree with you about the backlash against him! Some people seem unable or unwilling to consider how traumatic losing his friend must have been on him, and the level of fear and stress he must be under. One person said that SMcA had probably only met David once and was trying to get in the middle of the drama, so obviously they're not all aware of the actual situation from which to base their opinion. I'm glad someone put that poster right about David and SMcA's relationship. It does seem OTT in the way people are attacking his character.

These people are clearly very passionate about their life on the island and I suppose they believe SMcA is damaging the reputation of the place they love. It's no excuse though for being so judgemental. We know that the place they love is not all it seems even if people are trying to pretend it's not there.

 

[gia2]

http://www.khmer440.com/chat_forum/...id=8a0e211dad4d7fdd364ca83dd75f84e0&start=180 ?

"Mr McAnna met Mr Miller last year while both men were living in Leeds. He was the singer and guitarist in a Leeds band called These Fading Polaroids and Mr Miller was an engineering student. Both lived in the Hyde Park area.

Mr McAnna said he recently returned to Koh Tao - where he had previously spent 18 months living and working as a barman - and had planned but failed to meet Mr Miller on the night he and Ms Witheridge were murdered." <quoted from that page

sorry for any confusion guys....I think I had misread that they had lived together!

So they may not have been close friends, but they did know of each other at least. They knew each other to the point they'd plan to meet on the island, anyway (assuming that is true). That must be a really horrible thing to come to terms with. One the one hand he is probably feeling guilty, if he'd have met his friend maybe whatever prompted the attack wouldn't have happened, or he could have helped. On the other he's probably feeling shocked because it could have been him too who was attacked.

It'd be good to have some confirmation about him having definitely arranged to meet David that night. There is a big difference between saying 'yeah, we'll meet at some point' and actually making plans. Even if you weren't close though, I can see them arranging to meet. The island seems like a very friendly place for tourists, so asking someone to come out in your group wouldn't be strange I don't think.

 

[hunch77]

I wasn't sure if my earlier post came across as me writing him off as a liar or something so thought I'd clarify just in case

I definitely agree with you about the backlash against him! Some people seem unable or unwilling to consider how traumatic losing his friend must have been on him, and the level of fear and stress he must be under. One person said that SMcA had probably only met David once and was trying to get in the middle of the drama, so obviously they're not all aware of the actual situation from which to base their opinion. I'm glad someone put that poster right about David and SMcA's relationship. It does seem OTT in the way people are attacking his character.

These people are clearly very passionate about their life on the island and I suppose they believe SMcA is damaging the reputation of the place they love. It's no excuse though for being so judgemental. We know that the place they love is not all it seems even if people are trying to pretend it's not there.

Fo sho Gia2! I even read somewhere on the cambodian forum that a german message forum had posted that SM had been seen covered in blood on the night of the murders. I suppose trolls abound, inevitably. However this poor chap SM reacted and even if he was offensive to some locals due to being inebriated/in shock, it's hardly as bad an offence as the offences which took place last week. Plus, to take it to the extreme of what people have been saying-along the lines of him potentially having mental health issues and need ing help; I , personally, do not dig people with mental health issues being stigmatised or threatened with violence by so called "normal" others.
So, i always try to be objective but if I have to make a quick judgement call I tend to go with the underdog ie in this case, some poor scottish lad spending hours cowering in the jungle expecting to be murdered at any moment.
I wasn't sure if you had thought that I was suggesting that you had suggested he was a liar- i hadn't!!
i'm expecting more news to come out over next few days.
Rest in peace hannah and david.
peace out websleuth crew.

 

[hunch77]

So they may not have been close friends, but they did know each other. They knew each other to the point they'd plan to meet on the island, anyway (assuming that is true). That must be a really horrible thing to come to terms with. One the one hand he is probably feeling guilty, if he'd have met his friend maybe whatever prompted the attack wouldn't have happened, or he could have helped. On the other he's probably feeling shocked because it could have been him too who was attacked.
Horrible thing to live with.

yes i agree, truly horrible.survivor guilt.

 

[dotr]

http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/22/thail...and-after-naming-suspect-on-facebook-4878238/


"In an earlier tribute to Mr Miller, he posted: &#8216;I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her. You are the most honourable guy I&#8217;ve ever met.&#8217;

Other ex-pats have said much of the island is in the control &#8216;of locally powerful mafia-like families&#8217;.

The badly beaten bodies of Miss Witheridge, 23, from Great Yarmouth, and Mr Miller, 24, from Jersey, were found on a beach on Monday last week.

Police are reportedly ready to DNA test every man on the island.

They are waiting on the results of tests on a 28-year-old speedboat driver arrested on drugs charges. Locals reported he had been acting in a &#8216;crazy manner&#8217;."

 

[jellybeanz]

Hiya Hunch, you mentioned a German forum where some person posted that SMcA was seen playing guitar near to the crime scene and was later seen covered in blood.
I believe this was propaganda sent out by the real killer/s to initially frame Sean. Those guys that were pictured from within the shop had sat him down in the bar and told him he was going to commit suicide that night. This was the end of their plan to frame Sean, but it was foiled when sean made a run for it and started posting to social media from the shop where there was witnesses in a well lit location that would most likely have CCTV.
He did well to act the way he did under immense pressure.

I've never been to Thailand and wouldn't dare to post on some of the sites that people have cited, but I've never been judged for expressing my opinion here eace: ! Having read the posts on the Koh Tao FB page, Thai Visa and local news sites, I agree it looks like SM is freaking out (even if he didn't know David, it's a pretty horrific thing to be caught up in, regardless of how "psychologically stable" you may be). - by his own admission, he got drunk; sounds like he then mouthed off about his feelings/theories - possibly throwing out a few wild accusations - which has riled the local expat community (assuming they're not 'in' with the mafia). And now he's terrified of retribution. He's not responsible for what happened to Hannah - he may have witnessed something or just become extremely paranoid, but even if he's lying about this, his DNA has cleared him.

Given the backlash from people on the island, I thought he might just be a media hungry fantasist, but when I read into it, it sounds like he was genuinely scared (he called his mother, girlfriend, Thai police and the British Embassy - although who has their number on speed dial??).

Someone posted earlier that it's interesting that a number of Western news outlets have picked this up but not Thai (this may have changed) - I agree, but it could also be Western journalists clutching at anything they have because the Thai police are not being very forthcoming...

Sorry if this has been posted previously, but is there a link indicating that SM was a friend of DM at uni?

With regards to him calling the Embassy and Sky news, he didn't.

He posted on his FB to get SKY to make contact with him as he believed that they would have the experience and contacts and nous to act quickly and offer him protection. Another wise move as he was very well aware that he couldnt run to the local police. They had previously interviewed him a day after the murders so he knew that they had contact details for him.
It was friends and family on Social Media who contacted the Embassy on his behalf.

 

[jellybeanz]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/news/433740/frenchman-can-id-killers

A police source said officers had previously questioned the two men in the pictures provided by the Frenchman but they denied any involvement in the murder and refused to give DNA samples to the police. :facepalm:

One of the men looked similar to the footage police compared from the bar's security camera of an Asian-looking man detained near where the murders took place, said the same source.

The man in one of the photos looked to be the same height, same build and also had an earring in his left ear which raised the possibility that they were the same person, said the source.

Lord knows where they are getting Frenchman from...

 

[hunch77]

Hiya Hunch, you mentioned a German forum where some person posted that SMcA was seen playing guitar near to the crime scene and was later seen covered in blood.
I believe this was propaganda sent out by the real killer/s to initially frame Sean. Those guys that were pictured from within the shop had sat him down in the bar and told him he was going to commit suicide that night. This was the end of their plan to frame Sean, but it was foiled when sean made a run for it and started posting to social media from the shop where there was witnesses in a well lit location that would most likely have CCTV.
He did well to act the way he did under immense pressure.



With regards to him calling the Embassy and Sky news, he didn't.

He posted on his FB to get SKY to make contact with him as he believed that they would have the experience and contacts and nous to act quickly and offer him protection. Another wise move as he was very well aware that he couldnt run to the local police. They had previously interviewed him a day after the murders so he knew that they had contact details for him.
It was friends and family on Social Media who contacted the Embassy on his behalf.

Honestly jellybeanz, i thought that too when i read it(the german post). Was it in the cambodian forum?I think it was but im not 100%. For a second i thought-whoa is there some kind of mafia network between cambodia and thailand?I wouldn't be at at all surprised given the availability of hard drugs in both countries and teh ability to transport by sea. Maybe that's pretty far off piste though.
I think people were discussing that the "guitarman" and "seen by someone covered in blood" german post was posted around the same time that SM was out in the bar having that "chat" with the two thai guys. But why German? I think we can all see that several people strongly disliked him in the small expat community(as obvious on the koh tao community fb page) Did one of the guys also in the bar get online while SM was making some kind of scene in the bar last night and decide to stitch him up as a kind of revenge. This could have been done just to piss SM off or to punish him for making wild accusations, or more sinisterly, as you have mentioned-was it in fact the killers themselves? But again, if it was, the fact it was on a german site written in german makes me sceptical about this possibility.

Also I can't find the post now or remember if it was in comments on a public post SM made but I am sure i read him saying that he had given an interview within first few days to sky, so he was already known to them and vicey versy...makes sense.

 

[gia2]

Also I can't find the post now or remember if it was in comments on a public post SM made but I am sure i read him saying that he had given an interview within first few days to sky, so he was already known to them and vicey versy...makes sense.

He wrote it on David's FB page if you're trying to find it.

 

[hunch77]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/news/433740/frenchman-can-id-killers



Lord knows where they are getting Frenchman from...

WTF?? "A police source said officers had previously questioned the two men in the pictures provided by the Frenchman but they denied any involvement in the murder and refused to give DNA samples to the police."

So it's that simple. Police want your dna? Just refuse.That easy! Sheesh!??!

As for the french- SM has an italian looking name in brackets on his fb...
But still ???????

And they are also saying the "frenchman" was there and saw H being hassled while all other reports state Sm was not out on the night they were killed.

 

[dotr]

Not sure if this was posted or not, but it does make me wonder if this has become some kind of sick trend.


"Second British backpack girl feared murdered in Thai hotel

The suspicious death of a British stockbroker's daughter in a cheap Bangkok hotel was being investigated by Thai police last night.

Jayne Nixon, 26, was discovered on a bed by a maid at the building in the popular backpacker district of Banglampu yesterday morning.

Police Captain Suchart Kiram, who is heading the investigation, said there were no signs of bruising or a struggle, but the man she checked in with had disappeared and was being sought 'as a matter of urgency'.

He said there was no evidence of drugs or associated paraphernalia in the room, but the body was taken to Bangkok's Rama Hospital for forensic tests, which usually take weeks in Thailand.

Jayne's death comes two years after the unsolved murder of another British backpacker in Thailand, 23-year-old Kirsty Jones.

A spokesman for the £6-a-night Nakon Ping Hotel said Jayne booked into room 148 on Friday with a man who appeared to be her boyfriend. The couple were later seen going out for the evening, though nobody saw them return."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...feared-murdered-Thai-hotel.html#ixzz3E62zIiiN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[ChuckieD]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1920480.stm

Jayne Nixon died as a result of alcohol and heroin.

 

[ChuckieD]

These people are clearly very passionate about their life on the island and I suppose they believe SMcA is damaging the reputation of the place they love. It's no excuse though for being so judgemental. We know that the place they love is not all it seems even if people are trying to pretend it's not there.

Maybe they're in a position to judge him because they've witnessed his shenanigans first hand. He spent 18 months on the island and it seems nobody likes him and has quite the reputation for being a drunk, a liar, a drama queen and for drawing attention to himself - dressing like a pirate for a month for instance? Surely there is CCTV of him being chased around the island by the mafia the other night, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it. Personally, I think it spoke volumes that during his 'thing' on Sunday night his own sister told him to stop drawing attention to himself because he would ruin all of their lives, not the mafia, not the media, HIM - maybe because his family are used to his drama queen antics too. The guy needs help but not because the mafia are after him, in my opinion.

JMO.

 

[ChuckieD]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/revealed-scot-who-fled-thai-4306609

SEAN McANNA admitted possessing indecent images of children last year, it has emerged.

Not the greatest source but it's a fairly new story so hopefully better sources will tip up through the day.

 

[Elainera]

Suspect in Koh Tao murders taken for questioning
September 23, 2014 4:22 pm

Police have taken into custody for questioning a man who they believe was involved in the murders of two British backpackers on Koh Tao off Surat Thani province last week.

The man is a younger brother of an influential person on the island and believed to be the man seen on a security camera near the crime scene.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nat...o-murders-taken-for-questioning-30243921.html

 

[Elainera]

Koh Tao, Thailand: Photo of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge Murder Suspects



A Scottish man is being kept in protective custody in Thailand after a photo he took could identify the murderer of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge.

The man, believed to be tourist Sean McAnna from Lanarkshire, Scotland, claims he saw two Thai men trying to molest 23-year-old Witheridge before Miller intervened to stop the pair's advances hours before they were found murdered.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/koh-tao-th...ler-hannah-witheridge-murder-suspects-1466751

 

[Elainera]

Arrest Made!

Koh Tao Murders: Police arrest one suspect, launch manhunt for another

Police have arrested the brother of a local village chief on Koh Tao for the brutal slaying of British tourists David Miller and Hannah Witheridge last week (story here).

Region 8 Police Commander Panya Mamen named the man arrested only as &#8220;Mon&#8221;, reported Thai PBS.

Local officers are coordinating with Bangkok Metropolitan Police to hunt down a second suspect, the son of the same village headman, Lt Gen Panya said.

The man is believed to have fled the island and to be hiding in the capital. However, officers expect to apprehend him today.

- See more at: http://www.phuketgazette.net/thaila...arrest-one-suspect/35988#sthash.j4Pl7ZDI.dpuf

 

[Elainera]

However, here it says he was allowed to leave the police station after an interview.


Arrests expected soon in Koh Tao murders Brother of island's village chief among suspects

View attachment 59702

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/crimes/433797/arrests-expected-today-in-koh-tao-murders