The accusation that TH tried to abduct the baby

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  • #121
Aedrys said:
Honestly, I don't trust this woman. She hasn't once tried to find Kyron or show she gives a damn about him, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for her that Kaine took baby K away, so it's okay she tried to take her kid from daycare, luckily before the RO was out? Who knows where she would be now, baby K in tow, and oh, if she found a man to sympathize with her, where baby K would be.

She is not stable and regardless if she was setup or not, her judgment is at a junior high level right now. At least Kaine isn't pulling this crap, or I would be really worried about baby K. IMO, it's hard to win when you keep sinking your own ship. Just ask Casey A.
Click to expand...

BBM nor did any of the other parents and when we thought they were going to help Kryon all we got was gossip and mud slinging. IMO
 
  • #122
she did nothing illegal....yet here comes ole hubby and is super shady takign the baby and going behind her back. yikes.

I would hope any one of us would do the same, if we thought our child was in danger.
 
  • #123
I think we're dealing more with emotion here than logic, legalities aside.

What I see, and I may be wrong - been there before, is a real tangled triangle, possible affairs, control issues, a little boy, a tiny baby, two older children, caught in a tangled web of deceit by whomevers making. The damage here is being done to the children, ALL the children.

When I first saw Terri in the press conference, I thought she was guiltier than hell and couldnt wait to nail her. When Kaine opened his mouth for the first time I changed my mind. Now, listening to all the PCs, I see a mess, a nasty mess, and probably a dead little boy who was the scapegoat for all of them.

My opinion only
 
  • #124
...prior to a Judge issuing the RO, legally Terri was not deemed a potnential threat to her child and therefore her attempt to remove her child from daycare CANNOT be legally called an attempt at kidnapping.
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I agree, I already said there's no evidence. She may have wanted to see her baby, and she may have wanted to abduct her.
 
  • #125
When Kaine opened his mouth for the first time I changed my mind.

Curious as to what he said to make you change your mind. I was on the fence, leaning toward Kaine being guilty, or a co conspirator, until he started talking.
 
  • #126
ami said:
I agree, I already said there's no evidence. She may have wanted to see her baby, and she may have wanted to abduct her.
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Taking your own daughter, when sole custody has NOT been granted to anyone else, is NOT abduction. I think this is where a lot of good people are going wrong.

My opinion only
 
  • #127
Taking your own daughter, when sole custody has NOT been granted to anyone else, is NOT abduction. I think this is where a lot of good people are going wrong.
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Actually I just looked it up (http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/parental-kidnapping/)

*snip*
In the absence of a court order determining rights of custody or visitation to a child, a person having a right of custody of the child commits the crime of parental kidnapping if he removes, takes, detains, conceals, or entices away that child within or without the state, without good cause, and with the intent to deprive the custody right of another person or a public agency also having a custody right to that child
*snip*

Maybe it's more a question for the legal experts here, but it seems like Kaine could take the baby if he believed through LE that she was in danger, even before the RO was issued.
 
  • #128
In a seperation/divorce scenario,I would say a mother trying to take her child from a father who took the child away is completely normal.It happens all the time,but the bigger picture is there's a child missing.It's not about anyone associating with the mother or the father in a divorce/child custody issue.LE is not going to side with a parent in a divorce case.They are not going to tell a parent to remove a child from another parent if they don't feel the child is in danger.

Bottom line is they know what her cellphone records,bank transactions and all other evidence they have collected is saying to them.And I don't believe for a second she had MC look up the address where Kaine is at just to know where the baby is.Her behavior and actions indicate there is more than suspicion she's had a hand in Kyron being taken.Personality wise,I don't care for the father,but it's not about either one of them,it's about Kyron,what happened or is happening to that child now.
 
  • #129
lillygator said:
she did nothing illegal....yet here comes ole hubby and is super shady takign the baby and going behind her back. yikes.
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He did what he was advised to do by LE for his safety and the safety of his daughter.

She really can not talk about anyone going behind her back lol. She really seems to be the Queen of Deception.

JMO
 
  • #130
ami said:
Actually I just looked it up (http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/parental-kidnapping/)

*snip*
In the absence of a court order determining rights of custody or visitation to a child, a person having a right of custody of the child commits the crime of parental kidnapping if he removes, takes, detains, conceals, or entices away that child within or without the state, without good cause, and with the intent to deprive the custody right of another person or a public agency also having a custody right to that child
*snip*

Maybe it's more a question for the legal experts here, but it seems like Kaine could take the baby if he believed through LE that she was in danger, even before the RO was issued.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, all Terri would have had to do was say KH threatned her life and the life of her child. She had as much proof of that as anything I've seen so far, and I don't believe she was trying to deprive him of the right to his child, the way he was with her.

You do bring up an interesting point, but I believe this really is a point for the law professors, and I think it varies from state to state, and situation to situation, and at any given moment, what personal agendas LE may have had. I had a situation with a relative where an officer said, at the scene, "She's just like my ex wife." HELLO? I set him straight.

My opinion only
 
  • #131
TY Ami,

*snip*
In the absence of a court order determining rights of custody or visitation to a child, a person having a right of custody of the child commits the crime of parental kidnapping if he removes, takes, detains, conceals, or entices away that child within or without the state, without good cause, and with the intent to deprive the custody right of another person or a public agency also having a custody right to that child
*snip*

You have just made my point for me. Until the RO was issued, there was no presumption by the law that there was "good cause". This indicates that Kaine's removal of baby K from the family home PRIOR to getting an RO and custody order was exactly that - Parental Abduction.

I am not making a judgment on whether it was a justified or not justified, turns out it was with cause or without cause, Terri's guilt or innocence.

I am simply making the argument that TECHNICALLY what Kaine did is exactly what he accuses Terri of attempting to do. By the letter of the law it was indeed parental kidnapping or at the very least custodial interference for him to withhold the baby, conceal her in a location not known to Terri, etc. all PRIOR to a Court's Order that he may do so.
 
  • #132
  • #133
now wait a minute - first thing this morning the articles I read following links on this and other similar threads claimed the attempt to determine when baby K was at the gym daycare for the assumed purpose of removal by Terri were made BEFORE the RO was issued . Further that this alleged attempted removal was in fact a reason that Kaine's gym was listed specifically on the subsequently filed RO as one of the places that Terri could not go near????

Is this not correct? If this attempted removal of Baby K from gym daycare was after the RO then that changes everything. Hold on, gotta go back and re-read all the MSM coverage on this new development.
 
  • #134
ClueMeIn said:
When Kaine opened his mouth for the first time I changed my mind.

Curious as to what he said to make you change your mind. I was on the fence, leaning toward Kaine being guilty, or a co conspirator, until he started talking.
Click to expand...

What changed my mind were the control issues. Someone, I believe it was KH, was going to control what could be asked and answered, when it could be asked and answered, and the way he deep sixed his wife. One would think a man would "cleave" to his wife, but he shed her like a corn husk. If a man really loved his wife, wouldn't he have some loyalty, painful questions? It seemed more like everything was working out just the way it should.

I have no idea what went on with KH, DY, and TMH. Although it does seem a wee hair suspicious, it take two (2) to tango. That means if there was, and I don't know, anything going on with TMH and KH while he was married to DY, he was as guilty as she. Yet, she, TMH, bears the brunt. I don't see this as being fair.

Since the first PC, I have wanted to hop on the wagon with everyone else, but I can't. To me, there is so much more here than meets the eye, or that we've been allowed to see. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Never is one person a saint and the other a sinner.

Matter of fact, a week or so ago, when I believed Terri might be arrested, I was VERY tempted to post that Kyron would probably show up a while later, miraculously. I guess I kinda think KH wanted a divorce and wanted custody of baby K, the same way he got custody of Kyron. A free man with custody of both his bio children, no pesty wife, no alimony, no child support.

KH is a very smart man, in my opinion, colder than the south pole, but very intelligent.

My opinion only
 
  • #135
tlcox said:
now wait a minute - first thing this morning the articles I read following links on this and other similar threads claimed the attempt to determine when baby K was at the gym daycare for the assumed purpose of removal by Terri were made BEFORE the RO was issued . Further that this alleged attempted removal was in fact a reason that Kaine's gym was listed specifically on the subsequently filed RO as one of the places that Terri could not go near????

Is this not correct? If this attempted removal of Baby K from gym daycare was after the RO then that changes everything. Hold on, gotta go back and re-read all the MSM coverage on this new development.
Click to expand...

Give us some dates when you find them. It seems like our info shifts and whispers the same as everything else in this case.
 
  • #136
Trident said:
Matter of fact, a week or so ago, when I believed Terri might be arrested, I was VERY tempted to post that Kyron would probably show up a while later, miraculously. I guess I kinda think KH wanted a divorce and wanted custody of baby K, the same way he got custody of Kyron. A free man with custody of both his bio children, no pesty wife, no alimony, no child support.

KH is a very smart man, in my opinion, colder than the south pole, but very intelligent.

My opinion only
Click to expand...

I cant help wishing.as i am sure he does that he had gotten rid of his " pesty wife" a lot sooner. That way Kyron would be most probably be enjoying his summer vacation right now with his loving family.

JMO
 
  • #137
  • #138
You have just made my point for me. Until the RO was issued, there was no presumption by the law that there was "good cause".
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Is that a legal fact, that the only "good cause" is a restraining order? I mean is that your opinion as a person because it makes sense to you, or is there a law that states that?
 
  • #139
tlcox said:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_stepmom_terri_mo.html

*snipped* Kyron Horman's stepmother was served with a restraining order and a petition for dissolution of marriage about 6 p.m. Monday, a source confirmed.

the article was posted on Monday, June 28th around 8 pm so it was written the day of the service upon Terri.

Does anyone know what time of day Terri tried to remove baby from daycare?
Click to expand...

Did she actually try to remove baby K from daycare, or just ask that she be informed next time KH came to the gym?

UGH, once again, "a source".
 
  • #140
believe09 said:
BBM-not really. Custodial interference could be considered if there was some kind of order in place defining custody and visitation.
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So far as I am aware there was no such order in place. If there was such a "juicy" bit of dealing within the family before Kyron disappeared, I think at least one of the msm outlets would have published it by now.

Willamette Week, for instance, published DY's petition for a RO against KH weeks ago. And that was from over seven years ago.

I agree that in the real world, I am rather relieved that TMH does not have access to baby K right now. But legally? I don't think there are any grounds for objection in that one action.

If we find out that she attempts something similar now, of course, then that would, I believe, be viewed as attempted abduction.
 
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