The Animal Hair & Transfer

[julianne]

I don't know if this has been said or discussed before, so if it has please excuse this. Is it possible that the animal hair (beaver or whatever) came from the paintbrush?? I know that many paintbrushes use real animal hair for the bristles.

 

[rashomon]

Rashomon, Priscilla owned the same jacket, are you certain it wasn't hers? No?
It was Christmas, finding a red fiber on a child wouldn't be a hard trick. The fact that it was acrylic seemed to narrow it to Patsy in the eyes of the BPD, but really??

I'm certan it wasn't Priscilla's. I don't suppose Priscilla was wearing the same jacket on Christmas as Patsy. Nor do I believe for a moment that the Whites were involved in the killing of JB. No evidence whatsoever ties them to the crime.
Patsy claimed not to have gone down the basement, but still four fibers from the jacket she was wearing on Christmas were found on the duct tape.
And I think fiber experts can determine very closely were fibers originate from.

Julianne: good point about the animal hair possibly coming from one of the paintbrushes. Does anyone know if the paintbrushes were examined?

 

[Eagle1]

Weren't the four fibers on the black tape just "consistent with" Patsy's jacket? Didn't they say other sources are possible?

Beaver hair oil painting brushes? I'll try to remember to hunt up an art supplies catalogue, but I don't think so. More likely that'd be watercolor brushes.

 

[Eagle1]

Eagle you are correct, the hair found on the duct tape was identified by the FBI as a beaver hair. ........
As Tipper stated, the house was gone over with sticky tape and vacuumed, looking for a "fur" source, none was found. The beaver boot story was a rumor, had Patsy owned such an item, there would have been a stray hair somewhere in her closet, there was not!

Good point.

 

[aussiesheila]

I'm not sure the wolf-dog hair is uncontestable. I can't find a source for that.

The beaver hair was confirmed by the FBI.
http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=25

Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. Carnes wrote that nothing in the Ramsey home was found matching the hair.

Other dark animal hairs were found on JonBenet’s hands that matched nothing in the Ramsey home, Carnes wrote.



ST depo:

5 Q. You don't want me to go there.
6 The -- as I understand it, there was a
7 beaver hair, what was identified as a beaver
8 hair, found on the duct tape?
9 A. FBI lab identified a hair or fiber
10 from the adhesive side of the duct tape as a
11 beaver hair.

You're very helpful Tipper, digging up these references, thanks.

For me to be confident that it was beaver hair would require more than a statement to that effect from Steve Thomas. I would like to see what the FBI actually said, not what Steve Thomas said they said. They might have just said it was possibly beaver hair.

 

[aussiesheila]

I believe Jonbenet was taken out of the house to a nearby outbuilding, previously set up and chosen by the perp as his lair.
The perp did not use a vehicle, had he , he would have dumped the body instead of returning it to the house. The fur on her hands is probably fur from a dog, the perp's dog. Did Jonbenet know this sick man? Did he walk the dog regularly , allowing Jonbenet to pet it? Did he choose to kill Jonbenet, or was he hired to silence her by someone he owed, a previous neighbor perhaps?

The only thing that I find wrong with the 'taken out of the house' theory is that I can't see that there is any reason why they would return her dead body to the house. Others have raised this point too and I'm sure you have considered it. How do you explain it sissi?

 

[aussiesheila]

Oh me oh my. Why do you prefer Fata Morganas over facts, and visualize an animal in that house? But thinking about it - hmm, maybe it was Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer acting as Santa's accomplice? That Rudolph's alibi was never checked was typical of those bungling investigators. A real scandal.

But to get back from Fata Morgana scenarios to facts: how do you explain that four (!) fibers from Patsy's jacket were found on the inside of the duct tape which covered JonBenet's mouth?

I think it was fibres consistent with those from Patsy's jacket, rashomon, not fibres FROM her jacket, there is a difference you know. Besides weren't those fibres found all around the basement? If Patsy wore the jacket frequently they were probably all around the whole house. As I understand it the piece of duct tape was not fresh from the roll. I think it was a piece of tape one of the cover-uppers found lying around the basement after the murder and thought if they put it over JonBenet's mouth it would add a touch of authenticity to the kidnapper scenario they were staging.

 

[rashomon]

I think it was fibres consistent with those from Patsy's jacket, rashomon, not fibres FROM her jacket, there is a difference you know. Besides weren't those fibres found all around the basement? If Patsy wore the jacket frequently they were probably all around the whole house. As I understand it the piece of duct tape was not fresh from the roll. I think it was a piece of tape one of the cover-uppers found lying around the basement after the murder and thought if they put it over JonBenet's mouth it would add a touch of authenticity to the kidnapper scenario they were staging.

It is always put like that in official language: 'fibers consistent with'. Fiber experts never say 'the fibers came from', no matter how incriminating the result of their analysis is.
And if the fibers were found all over the basement, this is even more damaging.
For I don't think that Patsy would have put on a jacket elegant enough that she was wearing it to a Christmas party, to handle paint and paintbrushes in the basement because she wanted to clean up or anything.
Patsy was wearing that specific jacket at Christmas, and four fibers consistent with that jacket were found on the duct tape covering JB's mouth. This is totally incriminating evidence which can hardly be explained away convincingly.
Steve Thomas wrote that if the BPD had gotten the clothes to examine immediately after the crime, he would have sprung this info on an unsuspecting Patsy in the April interviews. Quite possible that she would have broken down and confessed.

 

[Eagle1]

My recollection is that a beaver hair was found on the tape and a wolf-dog hair was found on her hand. BPD went through the closet floors using sticky tape to collect fibers and didn't find matching hairs.

I tried a web search for uses of beaver hair, found a catalogue of pictures of dyed-black beaver fur accessories, including gloves lined with the beaver hair, which possibly JonBenet could have tried on, hats, scarves, earmuffs, etc., http://www.snowissfur.com/hatsgloves.html

It's an important point, I think, from Tipper, quote above, that BPD went through the closet floors using sticky tape and DIDN'T find any matching hairs. Chances are nobody brought any antique pelt traded by the Indians when America was being settled. It was probably something they were wearing. And none of the "friends" have ever mentioned knowing anyone who wore anything beaver-trimmed. Was it McSanta's son who lived out in the country or had a cabin? There's been discussion also that Helgoth may have had a wolf dog. (He was suicided, remember, shot in his right chest (?) area although he was left-handed.)

I learned that as fur wears, later in the season, the longer "guard" hairs can begin to curl and/or fall out. Even if a beaver had been in the yard, it's unlikely JonBenet would have been out there in the dark after their return from the Whites' that night. Somebody else had to have somehow brought the hair into the house-basement since JonBenet washed her hands. We've learned she didn't bathe very often, probably didn't wash her hands too often either, unless she was reminded. I watched "Leave it to Beaver" last night, and boys his age invent all kinds of excuses not to wash up, as if it's an un-natural interruption of their lives. I don't know about girls. I still say JonBenet's hand was probably sticky, or the beaver hair would have fallen off, she was being moved so much.

 

[tipper]

[...] I still say JonBenet's hand was probably sticky, or the beaver hair would have fallen off, she was being moved so much.

tape= beaver hair
hand=dog?/wolf? hair

 

[aussiesheila]

tape= beaver hair
hand=dog?/wolf? hair

So if it was dog hair on her hand and there was a dog at the Whites, isn't it likely that she got it on her hand when she was at their party? Does anyone know if the Whites had a dog?

 

[Eagle1]

Thanks for the correction, which I guess simplifies things a bit. JonBenet probably petted dogs at some of the stops they made on the way home from the Whites', though she was asleep in the car during some of the stops.

The beaver hair was on the black duct tape which seemed to be previously used for something or other with some beaver hair on it. Hm......Could it have been in some outdoor-type perp's coat POCKET where he absent-mindedly shoved lots of things? Maybe picked up a pretty pine cone or something that would interest a child, which had a beaver hair on it? Or, obviously, the tape could have been on beaver-trimmed clothing items for some reason. I think we're dealing with a pedophile. Who knows what he might collect during a walk in the woods or snooping around someone's house? Barnhill's boarder, Glen M., said he came to the party on the 23rd because the dogs were barking. Didn't JR say an unfamiliar blue van was parked in a neighbor's driveway the morning they were waiting for the call? Some neighbors may have been away on vacation?

Another correction, instead of Singular's book, I have Carleton Smith's "Death of a Little Princess". And while skimming through it for my margin notes, the thought came to me, a perp could have been memorizing the layout of the house on the 23rd. Also of the neighborhood, which houses seemed vacant or whatever.

He may even have asked JonBenet to show him around, and maybe she told him there's the stairs where my Mommy comes down to make coffee every morning. Long-shot, speculation, but it's certainly possible. Maybe JBR showed him her room and maybe he molested her there, reason she was, according to McSanta's wife, crying and not feeling pretty. By Christmas Day night, he may have figured JonBenet would have forgotten that and would let him in, or, he went in while they were at the Whites'. Remember, the dust ruffle on JAR's bed had been disturbed.

 

[Eagle1]

Smith remarks that the ransom note contained a reference to JR's foreign time period and the amount of his bonus. Remodellers from before Thanksgiving probably wouldn't know those two things, even if JonBenet also took them on a tour of the house. Right?

Barnhill noted that sometimes' it's not safe to be in the limelight in any way, JonBenet's success or JR's, winning a title, Interpreneur of the Year, in 1996, equally likely to arouse some criminal type.

BPD must know what dogs JonBenet petted. Probably no extra one was brought in, because who knew when he might bark while "undercover"?

 

[tipper]

Smith remarks that the ransom note contained a reference to JR's foreign time period and the amount of his bonus. Remodellers from before Thanksgiving probably wouldn't know those two things, even if JonBenet also took them on a tour of the house. Right?

Barnhill noted that sometimes' it's not safe to be in the limelight in any way, JonBenet's success or JR's, winning a title, Interpreneur of the Year, in 1996, equally likely to arouse some criminal type.

BPD must know what dogs JonBenet petted. Probably no extra one was brought in, because who knew when he might bark while "undercover"?

What was the ransom note reference to JR's foreign time period?

 

[Eagle1]

I SUPPOSE he means the SBTC and possibly other references. Maybe even the word "beheaded", which I've thought happens in the Philippines, and I googled it, some terrorism there. I know I've reported on it before but can't remember where. Some group were holding 12 people, two of them Americans, and, sorry, I can no longer remember if any were beheaded.

I should have the note memorized I guess. Do you guys?

Most of the general idea of it, at least?

 

[Becba]

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Llh4Is5j5SQJ:www.danielsmith.com/learn/techLeaflets/0016/+paint+brush+hair+beaver&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

The link has paint brushes made from animal hair including beaver. There is one called Wolf hair but the description states it is not actually wolf hair. This article is only about Oriental brushes.

This link is to Wolf hair brushes:
http://www.hobbyetc.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?part_id=12222

IMO The hair came from Patsy's paint brushes. Mystery solved.

 

[julianne]

Becba...
I thought so, too! I think that it is highly plausible that the hair came from a paintbrush.

I don't know if this has been said or discussed before, so if it has please excuse this. Is it possible that the animal hair (beaver or whatever) came from the paintbrush?? I know that many paintbrushes use real animal hair for the bristles.

 

[Eagle1]

Yes, as we suspected, there are beaver hair brushes, but I think they're for watercolor, not oils. Chinese watercolor is a famous art medium. I'm planning to inquire at a local supply store in addition to the catalogue I consulted, which says the softest hair is squirrel, for those who like to do large watercolor washes, background sky for instance. Oil painters use stiffer brushes and some softer ones, but not that soft.

I did a search with the term "Any Beavers near Boulder, Co.?" and found this:

"The wholesale destruction of the beaver in the intermountain West disrupted these ecological relationships, and as a result erosion became a serious problem while the loss of habitat led to declining ungulate and bird populations. Removal of beavers or their dams, together with livestock grazing, has contributed to arroyo cutting and gullying of the landscape. As the channel cuts deeper and the gradient increases, the water table is lowered and surface sediments begin to dry out; gradually, the vegetation becomes composed of plants tolerant of drier conditions."

Tipper, are you sure the beaver hair was on the tape, in addition to JACKET fibers? You have a source? That tape sure had a lot of stuff on it!

 

[tipper]

[...]Tipper, are you sure the beaver hair was on the tape, in addition to JACKET fibers? You have a source? That tape sure had a lot of stuff on it!

Post #13

 

[Becba]

Yes, as we suspected, there are beaver hair brushes, but I think they're for watercolor, not oils. Chinese watercolor is a famous art medium. I'm planning to inquire at a local supply store in addition to the catalogue I consulted, which says the softest hair is squirrel, for those who like to do large watercolor washes, background sky for instance. Oil painters use stiffer brushes and some softer ones, but not that soft.

I did a search with the term "Any Beavers near Boulder, Co.?" and found this:

"The wholesale destruction of the beaver in the intermountain West disrupted these ecological relationships, and as a result erosion became a serious problem while the loss of habitat led to declining ungulate and bird populations. Removal of beavers or their dams, together with livestock grazing, has contributed to arroyo cutting and gullying of the landscape. As the channel cuts deeper and the gradient increases, the water table is lowered and surface sediments begin to dry out; gradually, the vegetation becomes composed of plants tolerant of drier conditions."

Tipper, are you sure the beaver hair was on the tape, in addition to JACKET fibers? You have a source? That tape sure had a lot of stuff on it!

JBR was found where PR's art supplies were.
She had a broken paint brush used for a garrote.
Paint brushes have both kinds of hairs said to be found, wolf and beaver.
Simple conclusion: The hairs came from the art supplies. Yet you want to question that because you don't think PR would use a beaver hair brush for oil paints.
There so far is no proof they are not used for oil painting. PR did paint with a person that did water colors. Their brush could have easily gotten in her art supplies. She said she preferred working in oils and I take that to mean she had worked in water color to at least be able to compare the two. She could also have purchased a water color brush for a different texture or shading or by accident. And as stated before, no one has shown those kinds of brushes are strickly water color.
It is simple to conclude the hairs are from the brushes. IMO it is far fetched to consider the hairs of 2 wild animals came from some other source.