The Animal Hair & Transfer

[rashomon]

JBR was found where PR's art supplies were.
She had a broken paint brush used for a garrote.
Paint brushes have both kinds of hairs said to be found, wolf and beaver.
Simple conclusion: The hairs came from the art supplies. Yet you want to question that because you don't think PR would use a beaver hair brush for oil paints.
There so far is no proof they are not used for oil painting. PR did paint with a person that did water colors. Their brush could have easily gotten in her art supplies. She said she preferred working in oils and I take that to mean she had worked in water color to at least be able to compare the two. She could also have purchased a water color brush for a different texture or shading or by accident. And as stated before, no one has shown those kinds of brushes are strickly water color.
It is simple to conclude the hairs are from the brushes. IMO it is far fetched to consider the hairs of 2 wild animals came from some other source.

Very plausible explanation that the hair could have come the paintbrushes. but I suppose the investigators had the paintbrush hairs compared to the hair on JB. Does anyone know if this was done?

 

[julianne]

I think it's possible to use ANY kind of paintbrush with oil paints. I mean, PR wasn't a professional painter, she did it as a hobby, right? So, if an animal hair paintbrush isn't the best or most preferred medium to use in oil painting--it doesn't mean that PR didn't use it---especially when this was a hobby. I mean, I wouldn't automatically know NOT to use an animal hair brush if I was painting in oil paints. I would buy a brush simply because I liked it. It may be different if I was a seasoned, experienced professional painter.

It's also possible that PR let JBR paint along side her at times. And if so, maybe JBR used watercolor paints.

 

[aussiesheila]

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Llh4Is5j5SQJ:www.danielsmith.com/learn/techLeaflets/0016/+paint+brush+hair+beaver&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

The link has paint brushes made from animal hair including beaver. There is one called Wolf hair but the description states it is not actually wolf hair. This article is only about Oriental brushes.

This link is to Wolf hair brushes:
http://www.hobbyetc.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?part_id=12222

IMO The hair came from Patsy's paint brushes. Mystery solved.

Thanks Becba, I think you're right. Fantastic, how clever of you, please give yourself a pat on the back. (you too Julianne). I have always thought the duct tape was a piece the perpetrators found lying around the basement somewhere. So I think it must have been in the area of the paint tote.

That just leaves the hair on JonBenet's hands to be explained.

 

[tipper]

Thanks Becba, I think you're right. Fantastic, how clever of you, please give yourself a pat on the back. (you too Julianne). I have always thought the duct tape was a piece the perpetrators found lying around the basement somewhere. So I think it must have been in the area of the paint tote.

That just leaves the hair on JonBenet's hands to be explained.

We know they weren't able to match it to anything in the house. Don't you think that would include the paintbrushes. Particularly since they did check the paint tote for evidence.

 

[julianne]

I don't know all the details of this case like some of you, so I hope this question isn't entirely off.

Didn't someone, I think either close Ramsey friend or family member, remove some items from the house within hours or maybe a day of the murder? And if so, what were those items?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

From ST's book (HB edition)

page 67 - 68

"Later a friend, who had come out from Boulder for the services, recalled that she had been asked by Patsy to retrieve the black jeans Patsy had worn on the morning of December 26th. Although the friend said Patsy really liked those jeans, I could only think of another reason why she would want those particular jeans from fifteen hundred miles away, since she had plenty of money and credit cards with her: fiber evidence."


Page 145 (Thomas is saying Patsy was wearing fur-trimmed boots at her last handwriting appearance, and that Melinda's boyfriend Stewart Long saw her in a fur coat outside the house when he arrived on the 26th)

"...we figured out that Patsy's boots might be a possible source for the beaver hair the FBI lab had identified on the sticky side of the tape that had been across JonBenet's mouth. It could have even been a case-breaking discovery, and we should have been off and running with search warrants in hand to get those boots. But the DA's office once again stopped us in our tracks by shrugging their shoulders and declining to proceed with a warrant."

"Despite our repeated explanations during the rest of my association with the case, the DA's office never pursued a search warrant for the fur coat or boots. To me, it was inexplicable.''


I'm looking for the part where he describes how Patsy's sister, I want to say Pam Paugh, went into the house *in a cop's uniform* and brought out boxes or bags full of stuff. It should never have been allowed, and in any other case, wouldn't have been.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

It was Pam Paugh.

page 51

"Patrol Officer Angie Chromiak told me later that when she showed up to pull a secretary shift at Tin Cup Circle, she was ordered by police headquarters to ferry Pam Paugh over to Fifteenth Street to collect some clothing that John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey could wear to the funeral. Even that decision, as kind as it might have been to grieving parents, was questionable, for nothing should be removed from an active crime scene.

To disguise her identity from the media, Pam donned a Boulder Police jacket, complete with badge and patches. When they parked behind the house to dodge the media out front, Pam psyched herself up for the job ahead: "I can do this, I can do this, I can do this," she panted as she pulled on latex gloves. Then she headed into the house, accompanied by Detective Mark Everett. She spent an hour on her first trip through the crime scene and emerged with a big cardboard box filled to the brim, which she plopped into the trunk of the police car. For the next several hours, Pam made about half a dozen trips through the house, often spending an hour or more inside, and hauled out suitcases, boxes, bags, and loose items until the backseat of the police car was stuffed like a steamer trunk."

"Pam's last trip was into the bedroom of JonBenet, and she pumped herself up again: "I can do this, I can do this, I can do this." She came back carrying an armload of stuffed animals and other items from the first room of the house to have been sealed off by police."

"Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated list is astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, JR's Daytimer, the desk Bible, amd clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of a curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat. jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports!"

"This, to my mind, was madness. Once those items were gone, they weren't coming back, and the police were only in their second day of the official search of the house. Pam Paugh should never have been allowed in there at all. The removal of so much potential evidence, with police assistance, was more like an earthquake than a mere procedural error."



Name ONE other murder case that has been run like this! Unbelievable!!!

 

[Becba]

Wow! I had thought I read the books prety thoroughly but that one about Pam dressing up as a cop and taking things from the house flew right past me.

I cannot believe she was not arrested. Yeah I can. This case is still a mystery due to the police IMO.
And Julianne I see you did post about the paintbrushes first. It seems obvious now in hindsight that the hair came from paintbrushes. Too bad we didn't check it out sooner. Wild anilmal hairs was a very strange clue.

 

[Eagle1]

I'm not sure the wolf-dog hair is uncontestable. I can't find a source for that.

The beaver hair was confirmed by the FBI.
http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=25

Animal hair, alleged to be from a beaver, was found on the duct tape. Carnes wrote that nothing in the Ramsey home was found matching the hair.

Other dark animal hairs were found on JonBenet’s hands that matched nothing in the Ramsey home, Carnes wrote.

ST depo:

5 Q. You don't want me to go there.
6 The -- as I understand it, there was a
7 beaver hair, what was identified as a beaver
8 hair, found on the duct tape?
9 A. FBI lab identified a hair or fiber
10 from the adhesive side of the duct tape as a
11 beaver hair.

Thanks, as usual, Tipper.

It says "a hair OR fiber", is the FBI verdict, guys. Haven't we been saying all along there were 4 jacket fibers on the tape? Who has a source for that? But they may have all been beaver hair? This is a little confusing.

Judge Carnes wrote that other animal hairs were also found on JonBenet's hands, see the quote with the link just above this, so that's more than 5 items of evidence on that tape? Was the FBI really not positively sure if this was fiber or beaver hair, in #9?

 

[capps]

Wow! I had thought I read the books prety thoroughly but that one about Pam dressing up as a cop and taking things from the house flew right past me.

I cannot believe she was not arrested. Yeah I can. This case is still a mystery due to the police IMO.
And Julianne I see you did post about the paintbrushes first. It seems obvious now in hindsight that the hair came from paintbrushes. Too bad we didn't check it out sooner. Wild anilmal hairs was a very strange clue.

Becba,

We did check the paintbrush/animal hair sooner,here's my post from 3/11/06 on the "What The Profilers Say" thread:

"More expensive artist paintbrush bristles are made of animal hair. Most commonly saber.but they are also made with ox,camel,squirrel,and badger hairs.So it could be a possibility that the "animal" hairs found on JonBenet's body could have came from the paintbrush bristles.
Also,more expensive makeup brush bristles are made from sable and squirrel.Maybe when the LE were asking Patsy about the makeup she used,this is what they were trying to match up?"

I tried to discuss it further,but no one seemed interested. I then realized,and was amazed I didn't know this,the brush end of the paintbrush that abused JonBenet was in the paint tote.I dropped the subject,when I realized since they had the brush available,it was most probably tested against the hairs found on JonBenet.

Great sleuthing Julianne,great minds think alike! LOL.

 

[Eagle1]

Becba........
"More expensive artist paintbrush bristles are made of animal hair. Most commonly saber.but they are also made with ox,camel,squirrel,and badger hairs.So it could be a possibility that the "animal" hairs found on JonBenet's body could have came from the paintbrush bristles. Also,more expensive makeup brush bristles are made from sable and squirrel.Maybe when the LE were asking Patsy about the makeup she used,this is what they were trying to match up?"

I tried to discuss it further,but no one seemed interested. I then realized,and was amazed I didn't know this,the brush end of the paintbrush that abused JonBenet was in the paint tote.I dropped the subject,when I realized since they had the brush available,it was most probably tested against the hairs found on JonBenet......

Please, people, the soft animal hair brushes, Kolinsky Sable, squirrel, etc., are for WATERCOLOR painting, but Patsy was doing OILS. Ox hair might be stiff enough for oil painting. I never have actually seen one in any art supply store. Remember, when you look at an oil painting, usually you can see brush marks, and that's one way you know it isn't just a print. Those brushes can be synthetic, fairly stiff bristles. Some people might thin their paint more, or blot it to make sure they can later change it if they want to. And some people use a thick impasto, and some even lay it on with a palette knife, like plastering a wall.

Makeup brushes? Hey, there's an idea! Anybody know all about those?

 

[aussiesheila]

We know they weren't able to match it to anything in the house. Don't you think that would include the paintbrushes. Particularly since they did check the paint tote for evidence.

Yes, you are right Tipper, how stupid of me. I did go back and read your post 13 but made a mistake in reading it - I thought the no match only referred to the hairs on her hand. My excuse is it was 2 am - I shouldn't be posting so late.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Please, people, the soft animal hair brushes, Kolinsky Sable, squirrel, etc., are for WATERCOLOR painting, but Patsy was doing OILS. Ox hair might be stiff enough for oil painting. I never have actually seen one in any art supply store. Remember, when you look at an oil painting, usually you can see brush marks, and that's one way you know it isn't just a print. Those brushes can be synthetic, fairly stiff bristles. Some people might thin their paint more, or blot it to make sure they can later change it if they want to. And some people use a thick impasto, and some even lay it on with a palette knife, like plastering a wall.

Makeup brushes? Hey, there's an idea! Anybody know all about those?

She may have painted in oils, but that doesn't mean that maybe she didn't have a watercolor brush as well. Maybe she chose that particular brush to use in the garrote because it's a watercolor brush and she uses oil paints, therefore that brush is expendable.

It just seems pretty odd to me that the brush used in the strangulation device came from Patsy's paint tote...and that the broken end with the brush tip on it was placed back in the paint tote after it was snapped to desired length. That indicates to me that the perp was the person who owned the paint tote, and therefore was immediately drawn to using her own tools in this crime, and replaced what she didn't need out of habit.

Good question about the make up brush.

 

[Eagle1]

She may have painted in oils, but that doesn't mean that maybe she didn't have a watercolor brush as well. Maybe she chose that particular brush to use in the garrote because it's a watercolor brush and she uses oil paints, therefore that brush is expendable........QUOTE]

Good thinking, that a watercolor brush in her oils equipment by mistake was expendable, I have to admit. And another thing I have to admit, oils brushes usually have the longer handles. I have no theory as to why this particular brush seemed to have the longest handle, and maybe the largest diameter. I'll bet you can come up with something to explain it.

But I still agree with LE people, up to and including FBI, that Patsy did not do this. Whoever did it had to have noticed that particular brush for some reason, evidently its size. Okay, could be Patsy liked smoother oil paintings and that she used a watercolor brush for skies, lakes, or something like that instead of blotting with a tissue or a roll of "art paper" from the bathroom. Wish we could see one of her paintings. Her having it still does not prove that she's the one that broke it. (I couldn't do that. It'd take a man.)

 

[rashomon]

But I still agree with LE people, up to and including FBI, that Patsy did not do this. Whoever did it had to have noticed that particular brush for some reason, evidently its size. Okay, could be Patsy liked smoother oil paintings and that she used a watercolor brush for skies, lakes, or something like that instead of blotting with a tissue or a roll of "art paper" from the bathroom. Wish we could see one of her paintings. Her having it still does not prove that she's the one that broke it. (I couldn't do that. It'd take a man.)

Who in the FBI said that Patsy did not do this?

How long was that paintbrush and what was its diameter? I'm certain that any woman can break a paintbrush. In fact I just broke one over my knee for testing purposes, and it broke at once without any effort at all on my part.

 

[Eagle1]

Okay, possibly the watercolorist that Patsy painted WITH left a brush and it was just thrown into PR's tote until the next session. It's so easy to lose a brush. Are you a woman, Rashomon? I am, and I can't break my paintbrushes. I remember trying one time with a brush that was just entirely too long and thin. Couldn't.

What about a MAKEUP brush taped to a mascara wand or lipstick with the duct tape, belonging maybe to the rumored photographer, or maybe a play set for JonBenet of old stuff? I looked back and couldn't find who first suggested a makeup brush, or I would give credit.

Patsy's sister was collecting some things, including I think a golf bag. But the bristles or hairs part of the broken art brush was still there, or maybe already collected by police.

 

[rashomon]

Okay, possibly the watercolorist that Patsy painted WITH left a brush and it was just thrown into PR's tote until the next session. It's so easy to lose a brush. Are you a woman, Rashomon? I am, and I can't break my paintbrushes. I remember trying one time with a brush that was just entirely too long and thin. Couldn't.

What about a MAKEUP brush taped to a mascara wand or lipstick with the duct tape, belonging maybe to the rumored photographer, or maybe a play set for JonBenet of old stuff? I looked back and couldn't find who first suggested a makeup brush, or I would give credit.

Patsy's sister was collecting some things, including I think a golf bag. But the bristles or hairs part of the broken art brush was still there, or maybe already collected by police.

Eagle: I am a woman, and the paintbrush I had broken over my knee had come apart with no effort at all on my part. But after reading this post of yours I took another paintbrush, and this time I could not break it. It seems that it depends on the type of wood the brush is made of.

The hair coming from a make-up brush is also a possibiity imo.

Didn't Patsy own boots with beaver hair? Have these boots been compared to the hair in JB's hand? If forgot what Steve Thomas said about it in his book.

 

[narlacat]

rashomon
I think that might have been a rumour about Patsy owning beaver fur boots.
Does ayone else know?

 

[Eagle1]

Eagle: I am a woman, and the paintbrush I had broken over my knee had come apart with no effort at all on my part. But after reading this post of yours I took another paintbrush, and this time I could not break it. It seems that it depends on the type of wood the brush is made of.

The hair coming from a make-up brush is also a possibiity imo..

Yeah, Patsy's art brushes were probably expensive, and if anyone's brush bristles were coming out, they'd throw the brush away, right? Decent brushes for oils aren't all that expensive.

Anyone have any ideas about a makeup brush, and how it would come in contact with a piece of black duct TAPE? Possibly in with a photographer's equipment? AussieSheila? Do they tape small items together so they can easily grab them when needed out of a case of some kind?

Any other ideas? LE didn't find any other beaver hair in the house or closets. Or any more of the same kind of dog hairs.

If she was killed outside the home, one reason to bring her back to the house might be to implicate the parents, y'know. I have no opinion about that, haven't thought about it much if at all.

 

[Eagle1]

AussieSheila, I hope you're still reading here but I haven't seen you and so I've sent you a PM. Your box is full.

Would a photographer carry a makeup brush? Possibly made of beaver hair?