The Bonfire

[Sinsaint]

From BD, although I know you don't believe anything BD said about his activities that day. I happen to believe he did attend the bonfire and we know he did help clean something in SA's garage with chlorine bleach because he not only said he did, he produced the chlorine stained pants he was wearing that evening. BD talked about his curfew/having to be home by 10pm. BD mentioned the fire had already been started by the time he made it over to help SA clean that area of the garage.

BD's first statement was that Avery accidentally cut something on the vehicle that leaked and he helped Avery clean it up. That makes more sense than him engaging in a ten minute crime scene cleansing that obliterated any trace of Halbach being murdered there.

 

[Madeleine74]

Notice I didn't opine on what was cleaned up in SA's garage, I just said I believe he helped SA with cleaning of that area.

 

[missy1974]

BD's first statement was that Avery accidentally cut something on the vehicle that leaked and he helped Avery clean it up. That makes more sense than him engaging in a ten minute crime scene cleansing that obliterated any trace of Halbach being murdered there.

actually... his first statement doesn't say anything like that. He said he helped move a vehicle into his garage, went home and had supper and didn't see SA until the next day.
I don't doubt that maybe sometime in the following days or maybe the next day he did help clean something up, I just think certain things that actually did happen got put into that day after 2, 3, 4, 5 or however many interviews they did with him (if that makes sense LOL) Kinda like the bonfire.... didn't come up in first statements.... I don't doubt they had bonfires, I doubt they had one that day because of the lack of anyone mentioning it within those first few days-a week.

 

[Sustained]

BD's first statement was that Avery accidentally cut something on the vehicle that leaked and he helped Avery clean it up. That makes more sense than him engaging in a ten minute crime scene cleansing that obliterated any trace of Halbach being murdered there.

Well, I'm good with the fact LE never found any trace of TH in the garage other than the mysterious bullet fragment. Pretty good cleanup work from two guys with IQ levels around 70. IMO, TH was never in the garage dead or alive.

 

[Sinsaint]

I believe BD did see and witness things that day. I don't think BD is or should be legally culpable for the crime, but he was around, he was with SA, and I do not believe everything BD knew about was spoon-fed to him by LE. BD's conviction should be vacated. That, however, doesn't change SA's case in my mind.

That is where you and I differ. I could be swayed to believe Avery killed Halbach. I cannot be swayed to believe Dassey witnessed any part of her demise. A burning corpse would have put off a distinctive odor Dassey couldn't have forgotten. Her skin would have blistered and then charred. Dassey never mentioned any odor and, while Halbach was being burned her skin was "peachy or white."

I was the victim of a grease fire many years ago. My brother who was five at the time still remembers to this day what my burnt flesh smelled like. It's very distinctive and not something you forget. I was in the hospital for almost two months after it happened. When I got home I could still smell it. If Dassey were there the first thing he would have mentioned was the smell.

 

[Sinsaint]

Yep, I watched all 10 episodes. I don't believe everything Brendan knew was because LE fed it to him. At the same time I believe he should not have been alone for any interrogation due to his age as well as his mental slowness. Nothing vague about that.

You should read the transcripts of every interrogation in order then you'll be able to figure out everything Dassey stated was fed to him prior to him spitting it back out.

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't know exactly what BD saw or what he should have seen if he was there and something to TH was happening, but I do believe he saw things that day, things that made an impression on him and even caused him some emotional stress. His talk(s) with his cousin, his behaviors, his mentioning the bonfire, those are clues I can't ignore altogether. That doesn't mean BD committed murder though or committed any crime. Even BD's mother believes something happened that day and BD was pulled into it and she blames SA for it. That doesn't mean she's right either though.

 

[Sinsaint]

Notice I didn't opine on what was cleaned up in SA's garage, I just said I believe he helped SA with cleaning of that area.

We aren't here to opine about whether Dassey cleaned up raspberry jam of the garage floor. It was either car fluid or blood.

 

[Sinsaint]

actually... his first statement doesn't say anything like that. He said he helped move a vehicle into his garage, went home and had supper and didn't see SA until the next day.
I don't doubt that maybe sometime in the following days or maybe the next day he did help clean something up, I just think certain things that actually did happen got put into that day after 2, 3, 4, 5 or however many interviews they did with him (if that makes sense LOL) Kinda like the bonfire.... didn't come up in first statements.... I don't doubt they had bonfires, I doubt they had one that day because of the lack of anyone mentioning it within those first few days-a week.

I understand your point. It might be better to say that initially (3rd interview?) Dassey stated he helped clean up a mess from a cut hose on Avery's vehicle. The premise is still the same. He has so many stories none of them make sense. No one can point to his story and say "Ah ha... It all makes sense now!" He's had multiple variations of every detail of his story. What he cleaned up in the garage is just another one of those multiple choice pick the best answer to suit your needs stories.

It should be blatantly obvious... This kid saw nothing. He was involved in nothing. He knows nothing.

 

[Sinsaint]

I don't know exactly what BD saw or what he should have seen if he was there and something to TH was happening, but I do believe he saw things that day, things that made an impression on him and even caused him some emotional stress. His talk(s) with his cousin, his behaviors, his mentioning the bonfire, those are clues I can't ignore altogether. That doesn't mean BD committed murder though or committed any crime. Even BD's mother believes something happened that day and BD was pulled into it and she blames SA for it. That doesn't mean she's right either though.

His cousin lied. She admitted that. Bring up her story to the counselor... Blood seeping up through the garage floor? We all know that isn't true. Dassey losing 40 pounds? I've seen pictures of him days after Halbach disappeared and when he was arrested. He was lucky if he'd lost five pounds.

His behaviors? His school mentioned no abnormal behaviors. If we want to delve into what would cause emotional stress to a child... Going to school every day hearing about your uncle the murderer. Coming home every day thinking about a dead body and bones in your back yard. Going to sleep every night right next door to a supposed murder scene. Listening to the news every day talking about a guy you trusted being a murdering freak. Hearing your family discuss whatever lurid rumors they were privy to. Yes, those things certainly could cause a child to suffer some emotional stress.

Him mentioning a bonfire? Was that before or after LE badgered him into saying there was one?

 

[Amber29]

Yep, home by 9 and talked to Jodi twice, once @ 5:36 PM on his house phone for about 17 minutes IIRC. Who would leave a body on a "bonfire" and go inside for 20 minutes, not knowing if someone would happen by ( his mother for instance ) and see something ?

He clearly owned a wireless home phone. He could've been anywhere in his house and even outside. That phone call does not prove anything except he was home at the time.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/photos/

ETA in fact the base for the phone is in the bedroom on the end of the house closest to the fire pit.

 

[MysticJynx]

We aren't here to opine about whether Dassey cleaned up raspberry jam of the garage floor. It was either car fluid or blood.

It was grape jam!!!
I remember hearing that they even found a piece of flesh in the garage, that flesh was deer or some other animal. I want to know how come they didn't clean that up. How did they know that speck of flesh was animal and not TH when they were miraculously cleaning off everything without removing dust and dirt and animal blood. spent shell casing they move around and either pick up and wipe off and put them back on the floor, or just know for sure they were not subjected to any splatter. We do know there was some splatter. Look at the back door of her rav4. THE INSIDE. So he was able to aim the blood splatter right to her car door and no where else? SIGH!

 

[Sustained]

He clearly owned a wireless home phone. He could've been anywhere in his house and even outside. That phone call does not prove anything except he was home at the time.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/photos/

ETA in fact the base for the phone is in the bedroom on the end of the house closest to the fire pit.

True, depending on the range of the phone. Hard to believe that he would be talking to his girlfriend outside by a fire pit with another woman's body being burned and pretend like nothing is going on.

 

[Cymbaline]

ADMIN NOTE: Stop the personal back and forth. If you read an offensive post, use the ALERT feature to report it. Also keep in mind that the IGNORE feature can be a lifesaver.

Can we start a Just the Facts thread with links to back up the facts?

Also, I'm willing to transcribe the jail phone calls from the Netflix Documentary. I don't see them anywhere. Am I missing them? Anyone interested in helping me and where should they be posted??

 

[Sinsaint]

It was grape jam!!!
I remember hearing that they even found a piece of flesh in the garage, that flesh was deer or some other animal. I want to know how come they didn't clean that up. How did they know that speck of flesh was animal and not TH when they were miraculously cleaning off everything without removing dust and dirt and animal blood. spent shell casing they move around and either pick up and wipe off and put them back on the floor, or just know for sure they were not subjected to any splatter. We do know there was some splatter. Look at the back door of her rav4. THE INSIDE. So he was able to aim the blood splatter right to her car door and no where else? SIGH!

Well, if you must know... Avery and Dassey had special glasses that only illuminated human blood, tissue and brain matter. Those glasses enabled them to clean up only the areas which had human blood/tissue. These glasses also detected only Halbach DNA. They then meticulously cleaned all of these areas while they ignored all other blood and DNA along with the twelve shell casings. See? It all makes sense now.

 

[Amber29]

True, depending on the range of the phone. Hard to believe that he would be talking to his girlfriend outside by a fire pit with another woman's body being burned and pretend like nothing is going on.

When I was a teen in the late 90s we used our cordless phones to hide where we were when we snuck out. We would put the phone in the mailbox at the street and come back and use it to call parents, so they would see from caller ID we were where we said we were. Even though we weren't, we were out and about. I have no doubt his cordless reached outside his trailer.

And as far as talking on the phone normally...murderers do such things all the time, that isn't hard for me to believe either. Jodi Arias drove to another mans house and acted as nothing had happened and she left voicemails on Travis's phone calmly as well. People who can commit heinous crimes are not normal.

 

[Sinsaint]

Can we start a Just the Facts thread with links to back up the facts?

Also, I'm willing to transcribe the jail phone calls from the Netflix Documentary. I don't see them anywhere. Am I missing them? Anyone interested in helping me and where should they be posted??

I haven't seen the jail calls transcribed however, they may be in the transcripts. I know Dassey's phone calls were used in court.

 

[Cymbaline]

When I was a teen in the late 90s we used our cordless phones to hide where we were when we snuck out. We would put the phone in the mailbox at the street and come back and use it to call parents, so they would see from caller ID we were where we said we were. Even though we weren't, we were out and about. I have no doubt his cordless reached outside his trailer.

And as far as talking on the phone normally...murderers do such things all the time, that isn't hard for me to believe either. Jodi Arias drove to another mans house and acted as nothing had happened and she left voicemails on Travis's phone calmly as well. People who can commit heinous crimes are not normal.

Do you have a link that proves he owned/used a cordless phone on Halloween. I haven't seen that.

 

[Amber29]

Do you have a link that proves he owned/used a cordless phone on Halloween. I haven't seen that.

I provided a picture showing he had a cordless phone hooked up next his bed, next to his TV remote. What there isn't is a pic or link proving he had a corded phone. This is not an argument I'm going to have. My point was the evidence of the phonecall at 9pm proves nothing except he wasn't away from home.

 

[Cymbaline]

I provided a picture showing he had a cordless phone hooked up next his bed, next to his TV remote. What there isn't is a pic or link proving he had a corded phone. This is not an argument I'm going to have. My point was the evidence of the phonecall at 9pm proves nothing except he wasn't away from home.

With all due respect, I just haven't seen that post/pic. Can you direct me to your post with the photo.

Thanks...