The Bonfire

[Amber29]

I'm sure there were TONS of "small green SUVs" just comin' and goin' that day.

The point seems to be getting missed. Eye witness testimony is not always reliable. He could very well be mistaken on the SUV he saw or the day he saw it, it's that simple.

 

[Sinsaint]

Propane guy doesn't see "THs SUV" he's sees a vehicle that matches that description. Btw eye witness testimony such as that is often unreliable. Dark colored SUVs are extremely common. So I don't think he's lying by any means but I've watched a study on eye witnesses before where they all were shown the same thing. They all described it differently even getting the color of the shirt wrong.

Like someone else mentioned... If they were in a small blue/green SUV taking a left from Avery Road onto 147 someone would have been identified by now. From what I gather, all guests of the establishment as well as their transportation has been accounted for. If an SUV matching the Halbach SUV hasn't been included amongst the known visitor log then, with a 99.995% it was her vehicle seen leaving.

 

[Sustained]

Like someone else mentioned... If they were in a small blue/green SUV taking a left from Avery Road onto 147 someone would have been identified by now. From what I gather, all guests of the establishment as well as their transportation has been accounted for. If an SUV matching the Halbach SUV hasn't been included amongst the known visitor log then, with a 99.995% it was her vehicle seen leaving.

Not only that, the propane filling station is right across the street from the intersection of Avery Road and Route 147.

 

[ElleElle]

The point seems to be getting missed. Eye witness testimony is not always reliable. He could very well be mistaken on the SUV he saw or the day he saw it, it's that simple.

Ok. Did he see a damaged SUV? Since it was clearly damaged according to photo evidence.

 

[Amber29]

Like someone else mentioned... If they were in a small blue/green SUV taking a left from Avery Road onto 147 someone would have been identified by now. From what I gather, all guests of the establishment as well as their transportation has been accounted for. If an SUV matching the Halbach SUV hasn't been included amongst the known visitor log then, with a 99.995% it was her vehicle seen leaving.

Ok and an "eye witness" somehow saw Laci Peterson walking her dog on the morning after her murdering husband had already left to go fishing. Point being she was already dead when this woman claims to have saw her. Was this woman lying? No she was mistaken, it happens with eye witnesses all the time. Sorry I can't take the propane guy as 99% right.

 

[Sustained]

Ok and an "eye witness" somehow saw Laci Peterson walking her dog on the morning after her murdering husband had already left to go fishing. Point being she was already dead when this woman claims to have saw her. Was this woman lying? No she was mistaken, it happens with eye witnesses all the time. Sorry I can't take the propane guy as 99% right.

No worries, but the State never offered a rebuttal witness for perhaps a Avery Salvage customer who had a similar vehicle. The propane truck driver was certain it was Monday 10/31 and IIRC, none of the Avery family has a vehicle of that size and color. I believe it was Teresa's RAV4, but
also believe it could've been someone else driving.

His testimony itself would have raised reasonable doubt and should've been addressed if it had been possible.

 

[ElleElle]

The point seems to be getting missed. Eye witness testimony is not always reliable. He could very well be mistaken on the SUV he saw or the day he saw it, it's that simple.

Exactly. So who in fact saw the bonfire?

 

[Sinsaint]

Ok and an "eye witness" somehow saw Laci Peterson walking her dog on the morning after her murdering husband had already left to go fishing. Point being she was already dead when this woman claims to have saw her. Was this woman lying? No she was mistaken, it happens with eye witnesses all the time. Sorry I can't take the propane guy as 99% right.

Well, the population in Bum****egypt isn't anywhere near the population of Bay Area California. Furthermore, he was a regular guy, regular route, regular routine. Seeing a vehicle leave that property might be considered unusual. Over populated California with a case itching for people looking for five minutes of fame... Ahem... I mean witnesses isn't the same geography/timing as a guy who just lives his life, notices a RAV4 exiting the property and reports it. Point is... This guy isn't an attention . How does that make testimony less worthy of consideration?

 

[missy1974]

The point seems to be getting missed. Eye witness testimony is not always reliable. He could very well be mistaken on the SUV he saw or the day he saw it, it's that simple.

I agree!!!!! I am not sure whether I believe it or not. Even the bus driver, wasn't she uncertain? TH was there on Oct. 10th, was she mistaken on her days? I think it's possible.

what about propane guy... is it possible he forgot to change his watch for DTS? 3:30 on his watch would have been 2:30, right?

btw... does that happen often during time change... people forgetting to change their clocks/watches? LOL I live in a province that we don't change time ... EVER LOL

 

[Amber29]

Well, the population in Bum****egypt isn't anywhere near the population of Bay Area California. Furthermore, he was a regular guy, regular route, regular routine. Seeing a vehicle leave that property might be considered unusual. Over populated California with a case itching for people looking for five minutes of fame... Ahem... I mean witnesses isn't the same geography/timing as a guy who just lives his life, notices a RAV4 exiting the property and reports it. Point is... This guy isn't an attention . How does that make testimony less worthy of consideration?

For me his testimony isn't reasonable doubt, for me the evidence points to TH never leaving the Avery property or her SUV. It's easier for me to discount an eye witness who thinks he saw her SUV leaving then all the other eveidence that has me convinced otherwise. You are right he's a regular guy with a regular route, on a regular routine. Pretty easy to mix up you days in that case. Honesty you and I have no idea how much traffic comes off Avery Rd. They do run a business there and run a wrecking service

 

[Amber29]

Exactly. So who in fact saw the bonfire?

I don't know who exactly saw the bonfire. I think SA himself confirmed there was a bonfire in the documentary. So eye witnesses to that aren't necessary

 

[MysticJynx]

The point seems to be getting missed. Eye witness testimony is not always reliable. He could very well be mistaken on the SUV he saw or the day he saw it, it's that simple.

Would this include any eye witness testimony, or just the ones we pick and choose to believe? Such as as the coerced eye witness testimony given by BD after he was fed with information for 2 days?

 

[Sustained]

I agree!!!!! I am not sure whether I believe it or not. Even the bus driver, wasn't she uncertain? TH was there on Oct. 10th, was she mistaken on her days? I think it's possible.

what about propane guy... is it possible he forgot to change his watch for DTS? 3:30 on his watch would have been 2:30, right?

btw... does that happen often during time change... people forgetting to change their clocks/watches? LOL I live in a province that we don't change time ... EVER LOL

Nope, his watch would've shown 4:30 - in the fall, we roll back an hour to allow for more daylight @ in the morning.

 

[Sinsaint]

I agree!!!!! I am not sure whether I believe it or not. Even the bus driver, wasn't she uncertain? TH was there on Oct. 10th, was she mistaken on her days? I think it's possible.

what about propane guy... is it possible he forgot to change his watch for DTS? 3:30 on his watch would have been 2:30, right?

btw... does that happen often during time change... people forgetting to change their clocks/watches? LOL I live in a province that we don't change time ... EVER LOL

Lol... It happens. I still have to reset my microwave, oven, clocks, etc. my phone and cable box are the only things that reset automatically. I could discount both the bus driver and propane guy but not due to timing. Both had set routes determined by outside schedules. Bus driver couldn't have been wrong otherwise she would have had no students on her bus.

The propane guy is more vague. If his route was a predetermined route with no variations, then his timing would be accurate. Otherwise, he showed up for a delivery or two at 6:00 a.m. instead of 7:00 a.m. The time might go unnoticed otherwise but in a murder investigation the timing of everyone that day should/could be verified. If he was an hour early to his propane fill-up someone should have noticed.

 

[missy1974]

Nope, his watch would've shown 4:30 - in the fall, we roll back an hour to allow for more daylight @ in the morning.

k wait.... isn't that backwards? He wakes up Sunday morning. He should have moved his clocks back... he doesn't, so on Monday he looks at his watch and it says 3:30, says oh shoot, need to move my watch.... he turns it back an hour, right? He doesn't move it forward.
The whole point is to get more daylight, right? LOL

TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL .... just for clarity.

 

[MysticJynx]

k wait.... isn't that backwards? He wakes up Sunday morning. He should have moved his clocks back... he doesn't, so on Monday he looks at his watch and it says 3:30, says oh shoot, need to move my watch.... he turns it back an hour, right? He doesn't move it forward.
The whole point is to get more daylight, right? LOL

TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL .... just for clarity.

Fall Back
Spring Ahead

 

[missy1974]

Lol... It happens. I still have to reset my microwave, oven, clocks, etc. my phone and cable box are the only things that reset automatically. I could discount both the bus driver and propane guy but not due to timing. Both had set routes determined by outside schedules. Bus driver couldn't have been wrong otherwise she would have had no students on her bus.

The propane guy is more vague. If his route was a predetermined route with no variations, then his timing would be accurate. Otherwise, he showed up for a delivery or two at 6:00 a.m. instead of 7:00 a.m. The time might go unnoticed otherwise but in a murder investigation the timing of everyone that day should/could be verified. If he was an hour early to his propane fill-up someone should have noticed.

I do think it's possible that the bus driver remembers seeing TH, but it may have been a few weeks prior. I could see her watching the news, seeing maybe the SUV and thinking 'omg I seen her there taking pictures'. She was there to photograph another vehicle on Oct. 10th, I wonder where that vehicle was that day. If it was closer to that bus drop off point, her "seeing TH" would be more believable, it's a long road!

 

[missy1974]

Fall Back
Spring Ahead

right LOL so I'm not confused? LOL

 

[Sinsaint]

Nope, his watch would've shown 4:30 - in the fall, we roll back an hour to allow for more daylight @ in the morning.

Fall behind and Spring ahead.

Sometime in October on a Saturday we fall back one hour. This was key to my development because one year I thought this applied to my curfew. I technically made it home by 2:00 a.m. I was mistaken because my mom didn't give a **** about the time change. Technically I made it home by 2:00 a.m. but technically I didn't make it home until 3:00 a.m. Semantics. I'm certain I was right but... Her house, her clock, her rules, grounded for two weeks with no discussion.

Springing ahead helps you in no way regarding curfew. If anything you are an hour late even if you are a minute late.

 

[Sustained]

I do think it's possible that the bus driver remembers seeing TH, but it may have been a few weeks prior. I could see her watching the news, seeing maybe the SUV and thinking 'omg I seen her there taking pictures'. She was there to photograph another vehicle on Oct. 10th, I wonder where that vehicle was that day. If it was closer to that bus drop off point, her "seeing TH" would be more believable, it's a long road!

Maybe, but Monday 10/10/05 was a federal holiday in the U.S. ( Columbus Day ), so the kids might have been out of school.