Found another article about the doggies
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2844015.ece?service=print
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2844015.ece?service=print
The Cadaver/Blood Dogs: Eddie and Keela
- Thread starter colomom
- Start date
- Status
Dr. Creepin
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2007
- Messages
- 76
- Reaction score
- 3
The sniffer dog who found the body of murdered Ulsterwoman Attracta Harron has been flown to Portugal in the hunt for the body of Madeleine McCann, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal. Specially-trained English springer spaniel Eddie and his companion Keela were taken to Praia de Luz complex in the Algarve several days ago as the search for the missing four-year-old intensified. The police dogs, which are trained to sniff out minute traces of blood, were drafted in after the focus of the investigation again turned on the apartment where the McCann family were staying when Madeleine disappeared 97 days ago.
A pair of elite police sniffer dogs attached to an English police force has been helping Portuguese police in their hunt for missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann, it has emerged. The specially-trained English springer spaniels Eddie and Keela were reportedly flown to Praia da Luz in the Algarve last week to take part in the investigation.
The spaniel can sniff out blood in clothes after they have been washed repeatedly in biological washing powder, and can detect microscopic amounts on weapons that have been scrubbed and washed. When faced with a “clean” crime scene, Mr Ellis and PC Martin Grimes, Keela’s other handler, will first send in Frankie, a border collie, and Eddie, another springer spaniel, to pick up any general scent. Then they wheel in the big gun. “We take Keela in and she will find the minutest traces of blood,” Mr Ellis said. “It’s not like looking for a needle in a haystack any more. The other two dogs will find the haystack and Keela will find the needle.”
Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, has become such an asset to South Yorkshire Police that she now earns more than the chief constable. Her sense of smell, so keen that she can sniff traces of blood on weapons that have been scrubbed after attacks, has her so much in demand by forces up and down the country that she is hired out at £530 a day, plus expenses. Thought to be the only one of her kind, the crime scenes dog earns nearly £200,000 a year. Her daily rate, ten times that of ordinary police dogs, puts her on more than the chief constable, Meredydd Hughes, who picks up £129,963.”
A South Yorkshire police spokesman said: "The dogs are the only two in Britain who are capable of finding human blood in small quantities. "They are trained to seek buried remains and are put to search on areas which look disturbed, such as broken branches, rubble or turned over earth." At the end of last year, the FBI sought the dogs' help in a ten-year-old murder investigation in the United States.
The sniffer dog that helped detectives jail evil killer Trevor Hamilton has just returned from assisting the FBI with a murder probe in America. Six-year-old English springer spaniel Eddie’s career took off internationally shortly after he returned to Ulster for a third time to help in the hunt for missing Arlene Arkinson. Eddie helped police nail Hamilton after the victim-recovery dog found blood from Attracta Harron (63) on a mat from Hamilton’s burnt-out Hyundai car.
A pair of elite police sniffer dogs attached to an English police force has been helping Portuguese police in their hunt for missing four-year-old Madeleine McCann, it has emerged. The specially-trained English springer spaniels Eddie and Keela were reportedly flown to Praia da Luz in the Algarve last week to take part in the investigation.
The spaniel can sniff out blood in clothes after they have been washed repeatedly in biological washing powder, and can detect microscopic amounts on weapons that have been scrubbed and washed. When faced with a “clean” crime scene, Mr Ellis and PC Martin Grimes, Keela’s other handler, will first send in Frankie, a border collie, and Eddie, another springer spaniel, to pick up any general scent. Then they wheel in the big gun. “We take Keela in and she will find the minutest traces of blood,” Mr Ellis said. “It’s not like looking for a needle in a haystack any more. The other two dogs will find the haystack and Keela will find the needle.”
Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, has become such an asset to South Yorkshire Police that she now earns more than the chief constable. Her sense of smell, so keen that she can sniff traces of blood on weapons that have been scrubbed after attacks, has her so much in demand by forces up and down the country that she is hired out at £530 a day, plus expenses. Thought to be the only one of her kind, the crime scenes dog earns nearly £200,000 a year. Her daily rate, ten times that of ordinary police dogs, puts her on more than the chief constable, Meredydd Hughes, who picks up £129,963.”
A South Yorkshire police spokesman said: "The dogs are the only two in Britain who are capable of finding human blood in small quantities. "They are trained to seek buried remains and are put to search on areas which look disturbed, such as broken branches, rubble or turned over earth." At the end of last year, the FBI sought the dogs' help in a ten-year-old murder investigation in the United States.
The sniffer dog that helped detectives jail evil killer Trevor Hamilton has just returned from assisting the FBI with a murder probe in America. Six-year-old English springer spaniel Eddie’s career took off internationally shortly after he returned to Ulster for a third time to help in the hunt for missing Arlene Arkinson. Eddie helped police nail Hamilton after the victim-recovery dog found blood from Attracta Harron (63) on a mat from Hamilton’s burnt-out Hyundai car.
Jayelles
New Member
These dogs are useful in investigations but it should be remembered that they are a means to an end and not the end itself.
For example, they can detect blood - yes. But they cannot discern between different peoples' blood. Since the "sleeps 4-6" apartment is let out on a weekly basis for 20+ weeks of the year, that's an awful lot of people who could have bled in the apartment. People go barefoot at the beach and swimming pool - lots of opportunities to cut one's feet.
The other problem is that the dogs can and do get excited by other smells and it is the actual discovery of the blood and human remains which is the result - not the dog alerting.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece
For example, they can detect blood - yes. But they cannot discern between different peoples' blood. Since the "sleeps 4-6" apartment is let out on a weekly basis for 20+ weeks of the year, that's an awful lot of people who could have bled in the apartment. People go barefoot at the beach and swimming pool - lots of opportunities to cut one's feet.
The other problem is that the dogs can and do get excited by other smells and it is the actual discovery of the blood and human remains which is the result - not the dog alerting.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece
From Mike Hitchen's blog (Friday, November 02, 2007 10:16:00 PM)
http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/search/label/Madeleine McCann
Dave said...
Molly, Mike,
the reaction of the cadaver dog in the apartment in itself proves only that the dog has detected the scent of a corpse in that apartment; a corpse which was older than one and a half to two hours and must have been there some time during the past two years. When I state that fact I am not rubbishing the cadaver dog I am trying to point out that, and the South Yorkshire police will be the first to back this up, that the reaction of the cadaver dog on its own is not sufficient to be used as evidence in a court of law. It does not prove whose cadaver it was, neither does it prove how the scent got there. The function of the cadaver dog is to identify to the police where to look for the forensic evidence.
Ditto the hire car some 5 weeks later.
I understand that the reaction of the cadaver dog in the apartment identified a location and that on closer inspection of that location a pattern of microscopic blood droplets was found which a forensics blood-pattern expert especially flown in from the UK has confirmed are consistent with the exhalation of person dying from a fatal injury to the head or neck. Hence the PJ's belief that the child met a violent death and died in the apartment.
The reaction of the cadaver dog to the hire car led to the discovery of forensic evidence under the carpet in the luggage compartment of the car. Identifying this and the forensic evidence found in the apartment is proving to be a process which takes months rather than weeks because a) there has been confusion concerning the child's DNA, hence the significance of the paternity question, and because b) we are talking about microscopic blood droplets in the apartment which are not only invisible to the naked eye but have been damaged/contaminated by subsequent washing of the floor of the apartment.
There can be no doubt whatsoever that if the blood droplets are identified to be from the child, then the child died in the apartment. Ditto with the car if the DNA is identified as Maddy's then without a doubt, her corpse was transported in that car.
Then however, the dog's reaction to Kate Mccann's clothing and to the cuddle cat toy as well as the car key, takes on a completely new relevance. In other words, if in two cases the reaction of the dog has led to the finding and positive identification of DNA, then it becomes reasonable to believe that the dog is reacting to one and the same scent, even if no forensic evidence is found on the clothing, the toy or the key.
There is at present no information in circulation which suggests that DNA has been found on any of them, but if it has been found the task of identifying it will be extremely complicated and therefore time consuming since both clothing and toy would undoubtedly have been washed at least once beforehand.
Sorry to have written so much but, I felt that some clarification of my previous post was necessary since I had taken a quantum leap which may have given the impression that I was rubbishing the cadaver dog when in fact the opposite is true.
There is no doubt whatsoever that without the cadaver dog the invisible blood pattern in the apartment would not have been found and the forensic evidence in the car would have been missed.
I thought of relating a true story about an episode with a sniffer dog that actually happened to me, but it didn't seem appropriate given the subject matter and that I find it difficult to even write the toddler's name in the same sentence as the word corpse.
Thank you for taking the time to read this exposition and to Mike for publishing it.
http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/search/label/Madeleine McCann
Dave said...
Molly, Mike,
the reaction of the cadaver dog in the apartment in itself proves only that the dog has detected the scent of a corpse in that apartment; a corpse which was older than one and a half to two hours and must have been there some time during the past two years. When I state that fact I am not rubbishing the cadaver dog I am trying to point out that, and the South Yorkshire police will be the first to back this up, that the reaction of the cadaver dog on its own is not sufficient to be used as evidence in a court of law. It does not prove whose cadaver it was, neither does it prove how the scent got there. The function of the cadaver dog is to identify to the police where to look for the forensic evidence.
Ditto the hire car some 5 weeks later.
I understand that the reaction of the cadaver dog in the apartment identified a location and that on closer inspection of that location a pattern of microscopic blood droplets was found which a forensics blood-pattern expert especially flown in from the UK has confirmed are consistent with the exhalation of person dying from a fatal injury to the head or neck. Hence the PJ's belief that the child met a violent death and died in the apartment.
The reaction of the cadaver dog to the hire car led to the discovery of forensic evidence under the carpet in the luggage compartment of the car. Identifying this and the forensic evidence found in the apartment is proving to be a process which takes months rather than weeks because a) there has been confusion concerning the child's DNA, hence the significance of the paternity question, and because b) we are talking about microscopic blood droplets in the apartment which are not only invisible to the naked eye but have been damaged/contaminated by subsequent washing of the floor of the apartment.
There can be no doubt whatsoever that if the blood droplets are identified to be from the child, then the child died in the apartment. Ditto with the car if the DNA is identified as Maddy's then without a doubt, her corpse was transported in that car.
Then however, the dog's reaction to Kate Mccann's clothing and to the cuddle cat toy as well as the car key, takes on a completely new relevance. In other words, if in two cases the reaction of the dog has led to the finding and positive identification of DNA, then it becomes reasonable to believe that the dog is reacting to one and the same scent, even if no forensic evidence is found on the clothing, the toy or the key.
There is at present no information in circulation which suggests that DNA has been found on any of them, but if it has been found the task of identifying it will be extremely complicated and therefore time consuming since both clothing and toy would undoubtedly have been washed at least once beforehand.
Sorry to have written so much but, I felt that some clarification of my previous post was necessary since I had taken a quantum leap which may have given the impression that I was rubbishing the cadaver dog when in fact the opposite is true.
There is no doubt whatsoever that without the cadaver dog the invisible blood pattern in the apartment would not have been found and the forensic evidence in the car would have been missed.
I thought of relating a true story about an episode with a sniffer dog that actually happened to me, but it didn't seem appropriate given the subject matter and that I find it difficult to even write the toddler's name in the same sentence as the word corpse.
Thank you for taking the time to read this exposition and to Mike for publishing it.
So from the above we learned,
1) Cadaver dog hit on a scent of corpse in the apartment and the car.
2) LE found microscopic blood droplets in apartment, collected and tested them. If they are Madeleine's, it means that more than likely she is dead from a head or neck injury. But testing them is difficult and time-consuming because they are small and someone tried to clean them up, so they were contaminated by cleaning products (bleach?).
3) LE found DNA evidence under the carpet in the tire well in the car that the McCanns rented after Madeleine's disappearance. Same for testing- they must piece together small samples that take a lot of time and effort to test. It is also complicated by the fact that Gerry's paternity is being called into question and/or the McCanns are claiming the DNA belongs to one of the twins.
4) If the labs can "prove" that the droplets and DNA are Madeleine's, it makes the likelihood of her death in the apartment hard to disprove, and the cadaver scent that was picked up on the keys, Cuddle Cat and Kate's clothes difficult for the McCanns to write off as being unrelated.
5) But they still might have to locate Madeleine's body in order to prosecute.
1) Cadaver dog hit on a scent of corpse in the apartment and the car.
2) LE found microscopic blood droplets in apartment, collected and tested them. If they are Madeleine's, it means that more than likely she is dead from a head or neck injury. But testing them is difficult and time-consuming because they are small and someone tried to clean them up, so they were contaminated by cleaning products (bleach?).
3) LE found DNA evidence under the carpet in the tire well in the car that the McCanns rented after Madeleine's disappearance. Same for testing- they must piece together small samples that take a lot of time and effort to test. It is also complicated by the fact that Gerry's paternity is being called into question and/or the McCanns are claiming the DNA belongs to one of the twins.
4) If the labs can "prove" that the droplets and DNA are Madeleine's, it makes the likelihood of her death in the apartment hard to disprove, and the cadaver scent that was picked up on the keys, Cuddle Cat and Kate's clothes difficult for the McCanns to write off as being unrelated.
5) But they still might have to locate Madeleine's body in order to prosecute.
And, #5 may be the impossible part, which will ensure the McCanns will not be prosecuted. With the caves, the water, the high mileage on the car, Madeline could be anywhere, but IMO probably not in Morocco.
Texana
Overreaching
I hate to say this, but I think you are right.
teacherbees
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 115
- Reaction score
- 3
I had similar thoughts in regards to the JonBenet Ramsey murder...but here we are 10 plus years later and no one has confessed.
Good point teacherbees....
My heart breaks at the thought of human beings that can be so callous regarding the life of a child.
If I didn't believe it....I would be soooo afraid for my children. I simply cannot go there. Forgive me for my narrow mind.
Tuba
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2007
- Messages
- 5,691
- Reaction score
- 67
http://archive.thenorthernecho.co.uk/2007/5/12/
This is an article that appeared on Madeleine's birthday. The report that not the blood or cadaver dogs but the person tracer dogs had followed a trail into the apt. of Britons who left right after the disappearance. That would not be the Paynes, who stayed on but could refer to O'Brien & Tanner, Oldfield, or some other tourist. Later, I found several agencies saying that the dogs went in O'Brien's flat at 6A and that this was not unexpected because of visits between the families. But I wonder what the dogs would say? Barking, "We're following fresh trails of May 3rd!" "Woof!"
This is an article that appeared on Madeleine's birthday. The report that not the blood or cadaver dogs but the person tracer dogs had followed a trail into the apt. of Britons who left right after the disappearance. That would not be the Paynes, who stayed on but could refer to O'Brien & Tanner, Oldfield, or some other tourist. Later, I found several agencies saying that the dogs went in O'Brien's flat at 6A and that this was not unexpected because of visits between the families. But I wonder what the dogs would say? Barking, "We're following fresh trails of May 3rd!" "Woof!"
Barnaby
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,148
- Reaction score
- 24
I have always felt that o'Brien was involved backed up by his partner Jane Tanner!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...uth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html
Great article about these awesome dogs!!
Great article about these awesome dogs!!
april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2005
- Messages
- 1,227
- Reaction score
- 9
Awesome but still not perfect....From the above article .
******
On another occasion, Swindells and one of his dogs were searching a house when the dog signalled. A cache of bones was found beneath the floorboards at the spot but they were later identified as pig.
Pig carcasses are used in training cadaver dogs.
*******
The possibility that the dog was reacting to pig rather than a dead body is far more likely IMO. Especially when the car had previously been hired by goodness knows how many other people before the McCanns.
iNTERESTEDWOMAN
I'll trade you a bushel of corn for a barrel of oi
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Messages
- 1,333
- Reaction score
- 53
Oh I totally agree, I bet Kates bible and cuddle cat accidentally got stuck in a picnic basket full of ham sandwiches for a little too long. She probably used her jeans to stain the bacon fat from breakfast, and some poor farmers stock trailer broke down so he had to rent-a-car to take his dead hogs to the butcher...Yea that MUST be it.
Barnaby
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,148
- Reaction score
- 24
:waitasec: Ah Interestedwoman so disappointed in you, you got it wrong this time! It was the chickens not the pigs!:chicken::chicken::chicken:
april4sky
It is not who is right, but what is right, that is
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2005
- Messages
- 1,227
- Reaction score
- 9
Sorry IW. I just don't find this funny. These are real people whose child is still missing and whose lives have been destroyed. There is "NO" evidence that we are aware of that they harmed Madeleine..or that she is dead.
- Status
Similar threads
Staff online
-
SillybillyAdministrator -
BreezyflavorModerator
Online statistics
- Members online
- 56
- Guests online
- 1,323
- Total visitors
- 1,379