The case for murder

[BD1]

Wow, fascinating. It's hard for me to imagine. What would be the purpose of the hogtie, if you had to conjecture? If she was flung over the side tied like that, she would still hang to death, I guess?

 

[Morag]

Yep...you give the person a fighting chance and render aid. I would call 911 right after I got the person down and started CPR...I would not start CPR on a person in rigor. I would be crying into the phone that it was too late. JMO

Would you first send a text message, and then call 911? Me, neither.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Wow, fascinating. It's hard for me to imagine. What would be the purpose of the hogtie, if you had to conjecture? If she was flung over the side tied like that, she would still hang to death, I guess?

I AR states that the knots on the neck and the one on her wrist were slip knots, so tossing her over like this would result in the tightening of both knots. The AR also stated that the rope exited through her fingers, as if she was holding the rope and some of her fingers were bloody with torn skin.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

Page 8

There is an 84 inch segment of rope extending from a slip knot on the left wrist. This 84 inch segment pulls through the slip knot. This segment extends from the left wrist into the right hand and exits between the right index and middle fingers.

Page 11

On the posterior aspect of the radial right hand, there are four red abrasions ranging from punctate to 1/16 inch in diameter. On the medial aspect of the right third finger (the surface between the third and forth finger), over the distal portion of the middle phalanx, there is a 1/2 x 5/16 inch abrasion with skin tags on the palmar edge. On the medial right elbow there is a 1/8 inch, faint, pale red abrasion.

On the posterior mid left forearm there is a 1/8 inch red abrasion. On the posterior aspect of the middle phalanx of the left 3rd finger there is a horizontally oriented, 1/8 inch, linear abrasion.

Page 7

On the medial aspects of the base of the great toes there is dried and smeared blood. On the medial left great toe there is what appears to be a dried spot of blood with subsequent smear. There is a small amount of blood on the plantar aspect of the left great toe as well as on the platar aspect of the sole over the base of the right great toe. On the medial aspect of the left foot just anterior to the left medial malleolus there is a small amount of dried blood.

There is a small amount of dried blood on the posterior right 3rd finger and on the posterolateral aspect of the mid right 4th finger and distal right 4th finger.

Once she was tossed over, the ropes continued to get tighter, and the unnatural position she was in, combined with the tension on the rope rubbed the skin off her fingers and caused them to bleed, probably dripping onto her toes or she may have been able to touch her toes. If she had only tied her hands behind her back to keep her from grabbing the noose, she wouldn't have those bloody abrasions on her fingers. If she were unconscious while being tied up, and then strangled to death, but cut down three hours later, I'm not sure how the mortis pattern would appear on her body.

Was that way more than you wanted to know?

 

[SunnieRN]

Yep...you give the person a fighting chance and render aid. I would call 911 right after I got the person down and started CPR...I would not start CPR on a person in rigor. I would be crying into the phone that it was too late. JMO

Would you first send a text message, and then call 911? Me, neither.

Exactly!!! You find someone, someone you know, hanging in the courtyard. You run around, looking for a knife, move a table, cut said person down. Oh, wait a minute. Before I call 911 I had better TEXT my brother the message that his beloved is dead from suicide. NOT!!! moo of course.

 

[SunnieRN]

I AR states that the knots on the neck and the one on her wrist were slip knots, so tossing her over like this would result in the tightening of both knots. The AR also stated that the rope exited through her fingers, as if she was holding the rope and some of her fingers were bloody with torn skin.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

Page 8


Page 11




Page 7




Once she was tossed over, the ropes continued to get tighter, and the unnatural position she was in, combined with the tension on the rope rubbed the skin off her fingers and caused them to bleed, probably dripping onto her toes or she may have been able to touch her toes. If she had only tied her hands behind her back to keep her from grabbing the noose, she wouldn't have those bloody abrasions on her fingers. If she were unconscious while being tied up, and then strangled to death, but cut down three hours later, I'm not sure how the mortis pattern would appear on her body.

Was that way more than you wanted to know?

Iwannaknow, thank you for reprinting this with the explanation, so I now understand that you were referring to what happened on the outside balcony. I am a lotta bit slow and thought you meant that Rebecca was hung twice, once indoors and once outdoors.

This is a perfect explanation as to shy Adam, who is 5'11" would need a table to cut Rebecca down. That never made sense to me prior to this.

 

[SunnieRN]

Oh yes Iwannaknow, this would also be the explanation behind Rebecca's leg position in rigor mortis!! Thanks for the wonderful post that got my brain firing!!!!!:great:

 

[thinkingstraight]

Exactly!!! You find someone, someone you know, hanging in the courtyard. You run around, looking for a knife, move a table, cut said person down. Oh, wait a minute. Before I call 911 I had better TEXT my brother the message that his beloved is dead from suicide. NOT!!! moo of course.

Did you see my explanation of why someone might do this in another post? Why wouldn't you notify as quickly as possible his brother's beloved before you become unavailable (during 911 call)? And how do we know
he didn't try to call JS before he had no choice but to text?

Again, I always find it funny when people think they know what they would do if they walked out into a courtyard first thing in the morning and saw their brother's girlfriend hanging by a rope.

 

[SunnieRN]

Did you see my explanation of why someone might do this in another post? Why wouldn't you notify as quickly as possible his brother's beloved before you become unavailable (during 911 call)? And how do we know
he didn't try to call JS before he had no choice but to text?

Again, I always find it funny when people think they know what they would do if they walked out into a courtyard first thing in the morning and saw their brother's girlfriend hanging by a rope.

I am a nurse and have been dealing with emergencies for 19 years. So yes, this someone does feel she knows how she would react, despite your saying I might not.

As for your opinion, there is nothing that says I have to agree with that.

There is always another option in addition to texting. It is called voice mail!

 

[SunnieRN]

Oh yes, one more reason for not texting prior to calling 911. What if Rebecca could have been saved, if she had gotten help earlier? I would think the most important action would be to assess the situation and attempt to help the victim.

Turns out it would not have made a difference, but since Adam was following instructions and removed the shirt from Rebecca's mouth, he must have felt there may have been a chance she was alive.

 

[Pach]

judging from the remaining rope hanging from the balcony after rebecca was cut-down, my eyeballing of it seems that the person cutting it would have to be 7 to 8 feet tall even if he was standing on the table. it would be nice if LE can re-enact cutting down the rope just to doublecheck if AS could really reach up high enough to cut the rope, but then LE didn't bother to re-enact the scene :floorlaugh: re-enacting the scene will help LE determine if AS was telling the truth.

 

[thinkingstraight]

I am a nurse and have been dealing with emergencies for 19 years. So yes, this someone does feel she knows how she would react, despite your saying I might not.

As for your opinion, there is nothing that says I have to agree with that.

There is always another option in addition to texting. It is called voice mail!

I have doctors and nurses in my family and they all say they are challenged differently when its a family or friend emergency. That really is neither here nor there though. Besides, AS is a tugboat person, not a nurse.
You don't have to agree with my opinion. It's been quite clear you do not, nor will you even entertain the thought.
And do you think people would be satisfied if he had left a voicemail either? I can just see posts now: "WHAT? He left it in a VOICEMAIL?!!"

 

[IWannaKnow]

I want to be clear that I'm not pointing any fingers or accusing anyone, but, IF my scenario were correct the 'gag' would have also been used to hold her head back, in a more painful position, in order for the knot to fall behind her right ear. Her head would have naturally fallen forward as I discovered in my mock demonstration. Then I remembered that the shirt was wound around her head three times and stuffed into her mouth. If the rope from her wrists were threaded through the tow rope handle on her feet and then back through one or two loops of the shirt sleeves, that would have held her head back and up, stretching her neck and probably accounting for the hemorrhages in the SCM muscles. Dunno about that cricoid fracture still....

Anyway, if this were correct she couldn't be left in this position and have any chance of passing it off as a suicide. The headboard rope would have to be cut and removed (missing 10' of rope) which would have left her hanging by the noose around her neck only.

 

[thinkingstraight]

Oh yes, one more reason for not texting prior to calling 911. What if Rebecca could have been saved, if she had gotten help earlier? I would think the most important action would be to assess the situation and attempt to help the victim..

But that's what he did and he's being blasted for it.

 

[Pach]

re-enacting the scene will help us determine together with another polygraph test whether AS is telling the truth. the "texting" thing will then be icing on the cake. That's why I have to scratch my head why LE decided not to do a re-enactment. They also need to polygraph the twin sister and interview her about her whereabouts/timeline since she was the last person to call. I mean hello !

 

[KarenM]

Someone on Dr. Drew's blog pointed out the similarity between RZ's death and MS's death. I think it is interesting. We now know that a doctor at first thought MS was suffocated before the fall (although the claim of suffocation was not supported by the AR). The way RZ died showed that she was both suffocated through hanging and dropped from the balcony to fall. If she was indeed killed, it looks like the killer wanted her to suffer exactly what MS was thought to have gone through.

JMO

 

[deanna82437]

New Witness In Mansion Deaths Says They Heard Woman 'Scream For Help' -- Hours Before Cops Claim Rebecca Zahau Committed SuicideNew Witness In Mansion Deaths Says They Heard Woman 'Scream For Help' -- Hours Before Cops Claim Rebecca Zahau Committed Suicide

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...they-heard-woman-scream-help-hours-cops-claim

"The witness contradicts the facts released by the sheriff's department," a source close to the the family's legal team told RadarOnline.com. "This individual, whose name is not being disclosed, was unequivocal about what they heard: a woman scream for help -- from inside the mansion -- at 11 pm PT"

 

[deanna82437]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-witness-heard-screams-went-cops-blown

Rebecca Zahau Death Mystery: New Witness Went To Cops To Report 'Scream For Help', Was 'Blown Off'Rebecca Zahau Death Mystery: New Witness Went To Cops To Report 'Scream For Help', Was 'Blown Off'

The new witness in the Coronado mansion deaths -- who is claiming they heard a "scream for help" hours before cops said Rebecca Zahau died -- attempted to report the information to police twice but was "blown off," RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

 

[KarenM]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-witness-heard-screams-went-cops-blown

Rebecca Zahau Death Mystery: New Witness Went To Cops To Report 'Scream For Help', Was 'Blown Off'Rebecca Zahau Death Mystery: New Witness Went To Cops To Report 'Scream For Help', Was 'Blown Off'

The new witness in the Coronado mansion deaths -- who is claiming they heard a "scream for help" hours before cops said Rebecca Zahau died -- attempted to report the information to police twice but was "blown off," RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

It seems to me this investigation happened in a third world country where corruption is the rule rather than the exception. Shame on SDPD!

 

[SunnieRN]

I have doctors and nurses in my family and they all say they are challenged differently when its a family or friend emergency. That really is neither here nor there though. Besides, AS is a tugboat person, not a nurse.
You don't have to agree with my opinion. It's been quite clear you do not, nor will you even entertain the thought.
And do you think people would be satisfied if he had left a voicemail either? I can just see posts now: "WHAT? He left it in a VOICEMAIL?!!"

thinkingstraight, my feelings are not in any way, shape or form personal toward you. I have been at a dinner with friends and family, when one of them choked on food. I have also been present when my God daughter was struck by a car (luckily she lived). The FIRST thing most people consider, is how to help the victim, not texting someone about what you find.

As far as agreeing with your opinion or 'even entertaining the thought', that is not why I am here posting on this board. It is because I believe an injustice has been done. No offense, but you had nothing to do with this injustice. It was LE. LE who are sworn to PROTECT and SERVE. That is who my gripe is with.

If you are telling me I should agree with your opinions, that's fine, I have no problem with that. I will however, hold to my own beliefs and opinions, as is my right as a member of websleuths.

But that's what he did and he's being blasted for it.

That is NOT what he did. My first thought would have been, call 911, as I am going to the house to grab a knife, or moving a table to cut someone down. Not to text someone. jmoo.

 

[deanna82437]

Just some thoughts IF the latest witness claiming a woman's screams at 11:00pm on 7/12 are found to be true.

1) Who originally suggested/requested the dog be kenneled?

Rebecca requested this on Monday, 7/11, but due to Ocean's shots not being up to date, he/she was not kenneled until 7/12.

2) Conveniently, there was no dog at mansion to bark at any intruders or woman's screams.

3) LE said there was no sign of a break-in, so any intruder would have to have access or already be on the premises.

4) Why did Adam not hear or report a woman's screams?

All of the above are strictly my own opinion and thoughts :waitasec: