The case for murder

[bourne]

I don't think that Jonah blamed Rebecca for Max's fall.......but she did know too much about what really happened, and that was a problem for him. IMO, Jonah knew how to push Dina's buttons, allowing her to think that Rebecca was responsible for Max's fall. He had certainly seen her in "enraged" states previously, and was well aware of what she would do........so, his problem goes away, but he isn't directly involved in the deed.....almost PERFECT, and he has an air-tight alibi, but guess who doesn't?

Then why isn't Dina trying to out Jonah's involvement? In all her PR campaigns, she seems to only have hatred for Becky.

 

[Inparadise]

Then why isn't Dina trying to out Jonah's involvement? In all her PR campaigns, she seems to only have hatred for Becky.

IMO, In her mind, Dina sees that she did no wrong.......what she did was justified. She probably hasn't even realized that Jonah played her. She will never come out against him, because she also blames Rebecca for "stealing" Jonah away from her, which is just not true. Dina also has to win at all costs, to be "right", and particularly when it is something concerning Jonah. It is her way of saying to him "I told you she was bad news, but you didn't listen, and now my child is dead because you let her around Max".........she is a score-keeper and winning is of most importance to her.

 

[Carioca]

Carioca, I was with you till the "what is needed..." part. lol

I honestly can't see Luber (whom I think you are alluding to above) as participating in Becky's lynching. I also, currently, don't think Jonah was the puppetmeister. (Cute pronunciation by the bye; German, yes? ). I think he still loved Becky even after Max's accident and did not blame her for his it.

Why do I say that? Because otherwise, he would have angrily shooed her away immediately along with her younger sis XZ. There was no reason to keep her around if he in fact blamed Becky and with such hateful intensity that he would go about setting up her murder. If Jonah had wanted to, he could have simply asked her to leave ASAP as in that Mon or latest Tues, along with XZ, and that he'd have someone pack up her stuff and send her suitcases later that week, etc. No reason to allow Becky to stay in the home, and he also continued to communicate with her throughout Tues, as I recall.

I am certain if someone hated you and was plotting your murder, they would not call/text you throughout the day to give you updates about their child's condition in ICU. (Just compare how angry Dina banned Becky from the hospital from seeing Dina's son). They also would not have dinner with you either, especially if they blame you for their child's fatal accident.

Besides, XZ would have informed authorities that Jonah was angry and had broken up with Becky if that were the case because an insider said that XZ had been standing at the master bedroom door when Jonah returned home Monday night and XZ had overheard what Jonah said to Becky.

So I don't agree that Jonah or Luber were in on the murder of Becky.

I'm still on the fence about Adam. Maybe in his ambien-induced state, he might have helped cover up the crime, but for now, I will say he was not involved. I think the twins set him up to take the fall for Becky's murder.

Which door do I choose? I say likely it's #2.

Thanks for the game. Now which prize do I get? :blushing:

You silly. You only get a prize if you solve the puzzle! And as far as I know, there could be a myriad of doors that have yet to be even be considered...

OK maybe I should phrase it differently. As is much in life, there's a cause, and then there's an effect. In my premise previously stated, the cause (or event) began with the circumstances surrounding Max's accident. The effect (or response) to this event was Becky needing to be silenced since she was privy to the truth of what really happened. She was requested to cover up the facts in order to protect those directly involved.

In the heat of the moment, this seemed like a pretty good plan — Plan A. As Becky began to feel uncomfortable from the heat, not only from the twins and CPS, but also from her own conscience, the puppet meister knew the gig was up. Thus the need for Plan B. (Sorry, am rambling.. it's been a long day..)

As to phone calls, professed love, not sending her away? It's spelled D-E-C-E-I-T and called self-preservation. Find me an über successful businessman who hasn't studied Machiavelli and I'll send you a virtual cream puff doughnut from Randy's Donuts in LA. Ole Niccolo would have been proud.

Bottom line: Becky couldn't be sent away. She knew the "inconvenient" truth. Once the hand had been dealt, the rest of the cards fell into play.

Two grieving emotion-laden mad women on a rampage could never have had the presence of mind to pull this off on their own... Face it. From what we've seen so far, do you honestly think they could have? Dina has been denied evidence in her son's tragic death. She wants answers and thus far LE is refusing to sit in her corner. Nina is a rambler who could hardly connect the dots in an interview. So who is left? Just my opinion.

 

[Carioca]

I don't think that Jonah blamed Rebecca for Max's fall.......but she did know too much about what really happened, and that was a problem for him. IMO, Jonah knew how to push Dina's buttons, allowing her to think that Rebecca was responsible for Max's fall. He had certainly seen her in "enraged" states previously, and was well aware of what she would do........so, his problem goes away, but he isn't directly involved in the deed.....almost PERFECT, and he has an air-tight alibi, but guess who doesn't?

Thanks IP. You managed to put into one short paragraph what took me a soliloquy to express!! :rocker:

 

[minazoe]

being a drama queen and throwing yourself down on the driveway, doesn't make you a killer though...right? I just like to keep an open mind, after all...this is the mother of Max who has suffered a horrible loss.

so we can tell that no out of control girl fight occured...girls scratch, claw, gouge, pull hair and smash heads....they drag one or the other down on the ground. ..so there would be dna and more small injuries.

so then we have to imagine something more organized...where Becky was very quickly dispatched.

wait so,

becky goes out to the guest house and is confronted by a, b or c or a,b or just c

at some point she breaks away and tries to hide, then goes into the kitchen in the main house and runs around getting mud everywhere ...did anyone go in through the front that night?

I feel like this all happened really late at night with just Becky and Adam.

because it looks like a sex crime, with a naked and bound girl, very professionally killed, spotlessly almost bloodlessly murdered with at the scene.

I think Jonah would protect his brother, not Dina.

 

[Carioca]

being a drama queen and throwing yourself down on the driveway, doesn't make you a killer though...right? I just like to keep an open mind, after all...this is the mother of Max who has suffered a horrible loss.

so we can tell that no out of control girl fight occured...girls scratch, claw, gouge, pull hair and smash heads....they drag one or the other down on the ground. ..so there would be dna and more small injuries.

so then we have to imagine something more organized...where Becky was very quickly dispatched.

wait so,

becky goes out to the guest house and is confronted by a, b or c or a,b or just c

at some point she breaks away and tries to hide, then goes into the kitchen in the main house and runs around getting mud everywhere ...did anyone go in through the front that night?

I feel like this all happened really late at night with just Becky and Adam.

because it looks like a sex crime, with a naked and bound girl, very professionally killed, spotlessly almost bloodlessly murdered with at the scene.

I think Jonah would protect his brother, not Dina.

Agreed, I also think Jonah's brother would take precedence over his ex-wife.

If you look at the facts, witnesses placed Dina at Spreckels shortly before neighbors heard screams. She doesn't have an alibi for her whereabouts that night. We do NOT know for fact that Adam was even there at that time that night. The evidence does NOT point towards a sex crime. JMO

 

[Inparadise]

Agreed, I also think Jonah's brother would take precedence over his ex-wife.

As the saying goes, "BLOOD IS THICKER THAN WATER"..........

 

[bourne]

IMO, In her mind, Dina sees that she did no wrong.......what she did was justified. She probably hasn't even realized that Jonah played her. She will never come out against him, because she also blames Rebecca for "stealing" Jonah away from her, which is just not true. Dina also has to win at all costs, to be "right", and particularly when it is something concerning Jonah. It is her way of saying to him "I told you she was bad news, but you didn't listen, and now my child is dead because you let her around Max".........she is a score-keeper and winning is of most importance to her.

I remember you saying this in earlier posts.

This reminds me of how some odd-thinking women who get cheated on by their spouses only blame and attack the new gf. It makes zero sense to me because it is the man who broke the marriage vow (and contract) with the woman, and the new gf owes the woman nothing. But apparently logic flies out the door with some women.

 

[inthedark14]

being a drama queen and throwing yourself down on the driveway, doesn't make you a killer though...right? I just like to keep an open mind, after all...this is the mother of Max who has suffered a horrible loss.

so we can tell that no out of control girl fight occured...girls scratch, claw, gouge, pull hair and smash heads....they drag one or the other down on the ground. ..so there would be dna and more small injuries.

so then we have to imagine something more organized...where Becky was very quickly dispatched.

wait so,

becky goes out to the guest house and is confronted by a, b or c or a,b or just c

at some point she breaks away and tries to hide, then goes into the kitchen in the main house and runs around getting mud everywhere ...did anyone go in through the front that night?

I feel like this all happened really late at night with just Becky and Adam.

because it looks like a sex crime, with a naked and bound girl, very professionally killed, spotlessly almost bloodlessly murdered with at the scene.

I think Jonah would protect his brother, not Dina.

Hi minazoe...I'm glad you're here and posting. Can you please give a link that shows that the mud was everywhere? This is very interesting...

TIA

 

[bourne]

You silly. You only get a prize if you solve the puzzle! And as far as I know, there could be a myriad of doors that have yet to be even be considered...

OK maybe I should phrase it differently. As is much in life, there's a cause, and then there's an effect. In my premise previously stated, the cause (or event) began with the circumstances surrounding Max's accident. The effect (or response) to this event was Becky needing to be silenced since she was privy to the truth of what really happened. She was requested to cover up the facts in order to protect those directly involved.

In the heat of the moment, this seemed like a pretty good plan — Plan A. As Becky began to feel uncomfortable from the heat, not only from the twins and CPS, but also from her own conscience, the puppet meister knew the gig was up. Thus the need for Plan B. (Sorry, am rambling.. it's been a long day..)

As to phone calls, professed love, not sending her away? It's spelled D-E-C-E-I-T and called self-preservation. Find me an über successful businessman who hasn't studied Machiavelli and I'll send you a virtual cream puff doughnut from Randy's Donuts in LA. Ole Niccolo would have been proud.

Bottom line: Becky couldn't be sent away. She knew the "inconvenient" truth. Once the hand had been dealt, the rest of the cards fell into play.

Two grieving emotion-laden mad women on a rampage could never have had the presence of mind to pull this off on their own... Face it. From what we've seen so far, do you honestly think they could have? Dina has been denied evidence in her son's tragic death. She wants answers and thus far LE is refusing to sit in her corner. Nina is a rambler who could hardly connect the dots in an interview. So who is left? Just my opinion.

I solved it already. My solution is just different from yours.

The twins did it. Only the twins. No men involved. In murder room. With Rope, Knives and Paintbrushes.

I disagree that two grieving, mad women on a rampage could not pull this off by themselves. Dina is smart; she's a PsyD. Think about it. Like she says, she's a "scientist". She knows about DNA/fingerprints. She knows to use gloves. She knows to clean up crime scene. She knows to plant false evidence against Becky with videotape, paint poetic note on door, etc. She had watched the Housemaid video probably over a hundred times, envisioning how she would hang Becky over the courtyard balcony in the Spreckels mansion where she had once intimately shared with Jonah.

Hold knives against Becky's neck. Force Becky to paint the note on door to taunt Jonah. Force Becky to bind her own wrists and ankles, and when Becky couldn't, they did it for her. Both women knew how to tie boating knots. That is why Becky's fingerprints all over ropes, paintbrushes, etc. Put noose around Becky's neck. Tie one end to bed leg.

Both women grabbed Becky and toss her over balcony. THE END.

Jonah was not involved because he was too busy at the hospital and ICU with doctors and his son. He never left the hospital, unlike Dina who was gone for 14+ hours. No, he loved his son, and he loved Becky. No reason for him to kill Becky.

If he or his teen kids had injured Max, and Becky knew. Why did XZ not know? Honestly you believe Becky colluded with him to deceive XZ and Dina, etc. knowing full well that Dina hated her guts and would "kill her" for Max's accident? Isn't that what Becky said to XZ in the police car? That Dina would "kill her"? Why would she say that if Jonah or his teen kids caused Max's accident?

So no. Jonah and the teens were not at the Spreckels mansion. They have nothing to hide about Max's accident. And that was all Max's injury was. A tragic freak accident.

THE END x2. :rocker:

 

[bourne]

As the saying goes, "BLOOD IS THICKER THAN WATER"..........

Yep, that is why Dina and Nina are sticking to each other's stories to give alibis to one another. Notice how neither have stuck up for Adam's innocence. In fact, Nina's phone interview to CBS8 seems to point the finger at Adam. She even suggested that maybe Adam and Becky went out to dinner together.

 

[minazoe]

Hi minazoe...I'm glad you're here and posting. Can you please give a link that shows that the mud was everywhere? This is very interesting...

TIA

Anne Bremmer has claimed that muddy footprints in the kitchen and throughout the house were not examined in the investigation. I will look for a link but I think I saw it on television,

 

[minazoe]

http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/b...d-autopsy-results-11152011?xg_source=activity

here's one

 

[Inparadise]

I remember you saying this in earlier posts.

This reminds me of how some odd-thinking women who get cheated on by their spouses only blame and attack the new gf. It makes zero sense to me because it is the man who broke the marriage vow (and contract) with the woman, and the new gf owes the woman nothing. But apparently logic flies out the door with some women.

Funny indeed, especially since Dina was cheating on Jonah too........as some of her former friends have said.

 

[Inparadise]

Yep, that is why Dina and Nina are sticking to each other's stories to give alibis to one another. Notice how neither have stuck up for Adam's innocence. In fact, Nina's phone interview to CBS8 seems to point the finger at Adam. She even suggested that maybe Adam and Becky went out to dinner together.

And Nina will stick to that story until the money runs out.......then all bets are off.......IMO.

 

[Mr Spock]

http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/b...d-autopsy-results-11152011?xg_source=activity

here's one

There were no "muddy footprints in the house" stated in that link

 

[K_Z]

I solved it already. My solution is just different from yours.

The twins did it. Only the twins. No men involved. In murder room. With Rope, Knives and Paintbrushes.

I disagree that two grieving, mad women on a rampage could not pull this off by themselves. Dina is smart; she's a PsyD.

Respectfully snipped, and BBM.

I do agree that Dina is the smarter, more sophisticated, and more educated of the 2 twins-- listening to the 2 interviewed makes that apparent. Nina likes to talk and ramble on. When given enough time, and enough opportunity to talk uninterrupted, she reveals quite a lot in her extended stream of consciousness.

JMO, but I think Nina has lived in Dina's shadow for many years, and may not be entirely content with that. However, I think she is very loyal to her sister. And clearly, they both loved Max, and both hated Rebecca. (Nina's vicarious hatred in support of Dina's, imo.) If there were any nefarious action on Dina's part, Dina may be counting on familial manipulation, and Nina may be agreeable to going along with the plan. Nina may really enjoy the perks of being associated with the wealthy Shacknai lifestyle that Dina married into.

Conspiracies are very difficult to hold together over time.

 

[minazoe]

There were no "muddy footprints in the house" stated in that link

"Anne discussed the pieces of the crime scene that were not thoroughly (or in some cases, not at all) investigated or analyzed at the scene, including a pair of black gloves, a pair of women’s underwear found in the guest house’s garbage, blood in the shower, “mixed DNA” in Rebecca’s fingernail clippings, and footprints in the kitchen. She also states that the computer in the house was used after Rebecca’s death, though Dr. Phil dismisses this as misinformation. Bremner considers the original investigation to be rushed and judged too quickly, with Zahau’s case closed after a short seven-week investigation. She has deemed Rebecca’s death to be a “staged homicide,” due to the fact that the crime scene was “too clean”."


On television I saw a picture of the muddy prints in the kitchen and Anne Bremmer said they were thru out the house, they showed a photo.

or I dreamt it, in which case....:cheer: I've gone completely nutso...

 

[bourne]

Respectfully snipped, and BBM.

I do agree that Dina is the smarter, more sophisticated, and more educated of the 2 twins-- listening to the 2 interviewed makes that apparent. Nina likes to talk and ramble on. When given enough time, and enough opportunity to talk uninterrupted, she reveals quite a lot in her extended stream of consciousness.

JMO, but I think Nina has lived in Dina's shadow for many years, and may not be entirely content with that. However, I think she is very loyal to her sister. And clearly, they both loved Max, and both hated Rebecca. (Nina's vicarious hatred in support of Dina's, imo.) If there were any nefarious action on Dina's part, Dina may be counting on familial manipulation, and Nina may be agreeable to going along with the plan. Nina may really enjoy the perks of being associated with the wealthy Shacknai lifestyle that Dina married into.

Conspiracies are very difficult to hold together over time.

I agree. Also, about conspiracies being difficult to hold together over time: That is why I think it is unlikely that Jonah, Luber and Adam are all in it together with Dina and her twin Nina.

 

[Carioca]

I agree. Also, about conspiracies being difficult to hold together over time: That is why I think it is unlikely that Jonah, Luber and Adam are all in it together with Dina and her twin Nina.

I do not assume that Dina/Nina were ever aware of Jonah/Luber involvement. Actually quite the contrary. That's the point.