The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[BOESP]

Re the dilated pupils in that pic. How good was photoshop (or similar) back then? This is clearly a professional pic for pageant purposes. Dilated pupils are accepted as "more attractive". I can see PR using any means at her disposal to increase the chances of winning and from my intermittent viewing of Toddlers and Tiaras, it seems that many pageants have a "Best Photo" category. Was it possible to increase the pupil size with the technology of the day?

I'd say it was airbrushed.

 

[ElleElle]

I feel like the one biggest thing the CBS special opened my eyes to was that not all the little circumstantial things discovered have to be directly related to what happened the night she died, and one person didn't have to be responsible for all the things that happened that night.

My son is taking a forensics course this year and they had been studying this case prior to the CBS show. When he saw it, he said, "We never really seriously considered Burke because he would have been too small to carry her down the stairs." Many people assumed whoever killed her did everything else (ransom, carried her to the basement, changed her panties, etc.)

Also, she may have been a victim of different things at different times, but only one of her victimizers killed her. Sexually abused by one person. Pinched on the inside of her arm by another. And received repeated head strikes when she angered yet a third person.

Also, mark me as a person who never had a pediatrician EVER ask me about sex/sexuality/appropriate behavior, and certainly not when I was under 6 years old! Same for a pediatrician asking MY children. Never happened. I'd have pulled them from the practice if a male pediatrician asked how my 5 year-old daughter's sexual education was coming along. I'm in a "That's a Red Flag!" camp. The only way Jonbenet's doctors questions/notes wouldn't completely squick me out is if he's asking because Patsy has expressed concern to him that Jonbenet was possibly being sexually abused. But then it would be hinky that that info is not included in the notes.

JMO!

BBM ~ It is possible she had knowledge of JBR being sexually abused, therefore, brought it out with the Dr. so she was not so naive if he noticed something was up.

 

[ThinkHard]

And historically speaking, most who murder as children do not grow up to be adult murderers.

And? What does that have to do with what I said?

My only point was having a checklist of normal things in your life, does not mean you are normal.

Yes Burke is not a normal guy, that is very obvious, but I didn't suggest that made him capable of being a serial killer.

 

[singularity]

I have a question I wanted to ask during the DR Phil shows but I wasn't online much the past couple weeks.Someone may have brought this up in one of the other threads. Anyone can chime in but hopefully people like UK, otg, dave, Deedee, boldbear, and others who have read all the various transcripts can help me out as I might be remembering some of the statements wrong and don't have the time to dig through all the transcripts for just a couple statements.

In the transcripts when they are being asked about Christmas morning and presents, Patsy mentions that Jonbenet got a bike for Christmas and Patsy got one from "Santa Claus"(obviously John). Of course John also mentions the bikes(Jonbenet and Patsy's) and how he regretted not allowing JOnbenet to ride it more that day.

Anyways, thanks to Burke's interview.....this story has changed. I forgot which Dr Phil segment it was but when he was asked about what presents the kids got, Burke mentions that he got a bike. THis is the first I had heard of Burke getting a bike on Christmas. THis begs the question......where is it? In the famous pic posted above by DFF, there are two bikes and they are Jonbenet's and Patsy's. I realize that photo does not show the entire room but you'd assume all bikes would be next to each other for a picture.

If anyone remembers which segment this was on, could you post it? I think he also mentioned her falling off her bike.


One other thing.....

In the list of items seized from the home, only one bike was seized. I assume this was Jonbenet's.

bike registration 1 26-Dec

What happened to Patsy and Burke's bikes?

 

[PositiveLight]

I may be wrong feeling this way... but... and this is my own opinion.... why is it that I look at Burke a little more differently than other children who have caused an accidental death of another child or sibling? This is where the whole accidental death thing rubs me wrong in regards to Burke. I do feel BDI. I always have since it first happened.
I think there is a lot of evidence to point to him as the cause of the head injury. Other children that have caused accidental deaths such as playing with a firearm and accidentally killing a sibling or friend, I feel were pretty much innocent. There was no intent to harm.
With Burke however, I feel there was intent to harm. I believe it happened multiple times too and finally this time it caused her death. So in his case I think he should have had some kind of punishment. He never even seemed remorseful or sad that his sister had been murdered. He still doesn't. That's what bothers me the most.
It makes me sick to think that a child could do this. But for me at least I do feel there was intent to harm, and severely harm at that.
So, therefore I have no sympathy for him. at all. I'm probably the only one who feels like this though and that's ok.

 

[PositiveLight]

I have a question I wanted to ask during the DR Phil shows but I wasn't online much the past couple weeks.Someone may have brought this up in one of the other threads. Anyone can chime in but hopefully people like UK, otg, dave, Deedee, boldbear, and others who have read all the various transcripts can help me out as I might be remembering some of the statements wrong and don't have the time to dig through all the transcripts for just a couple statements.

In the transcripts when they are being asked about Christmas morning and presents, Patsy mentions that Jonbenet got a bike for Christmas and Patsy got one from "Santa Claus"(obviously John). Of course John also mentions the bikes(Jonbenet and Patsy's) and how he regretted not allowing JOnbenet to ride it more that day.

Anyways, thanks to Burke's interview.....this story has changed. I forgot which Dr Phil segment it was but when he was asked about what presents the kids got, Burke mentions that he got a bike. THis is the first I had heard of Burke getting a bike on Christmas. THis begs the question......where is it? In the famous pic posted above by DFF, there are two bikes and they are Jonbenet's and Patsy's. I realize that photo does not show the entire room but you'd assume all bikes would be next to each other for a picture.

If anyone remembers which segment this was on, could you post it? I think he also mentioned her falling off her bike.


One other thing.....

In the list of items seized from the home, only one bike was seized. I assume this was Jonbenet's.



What happened to Patsy and Burke's bikes?

Is it just me or does that bike in front of JBR look like a boys bike? It seems to big for her. :thinking:

 

[singularity]

I will try to dig further though and see what I can find. I honestly think she was on some sort of medication in that photo with her pupils dilated.

There are other pics where it appears she might be taking something. Here's a couple....

Some of you were discussing the bruise/mark/ringworm earlier. Here's a couple closeups of that mark....

 

[PositiveLight]

There are other pics where it appears she might be taking something. Here's a couple....

Some of you were discussing the bruise/mark/ringworm earlier. Here's a couple closeups of that mark....

She does look drugged honestly. Either she was drugged or very miserable. She looks sleepy. Those kids that do those pageants are like robots. Like a stepford child.

 

[Magdalyn]

Is it just me or does that bike in front of JBR look like a boys bike? It seems to big for her. :thinking:

It's not overtly feminine! I think the black handlebars are angled and make it look like the topmost bar on the bike goes straight across from the seat like a boys bike, but if you follow the green, it appears to me to angle down like a girls.

Size wise, she should be able to sit on the seat and touch the ground with both feet. IMO, it looks to be sized pretty well. :dunno:

 

[Magdalyn]

I may be wrong feeling this way... but... and this is my own opinion.... why is it that I look at Burke a little more differently than other children who have caused an accidental death of another child or sibling? This is where the whole accidental death thing rubs me wrong in regards to Burke. I do feel BDI. I always have since it first happened.
I think there is a lot of evidence to point to him as the cause of the head injury. Other children that have caused accidental deaths such as playing with a firearm and accidentally killing a sibling or friend, I feel were pretty much innocent. There was no intent to harm.
With Burke however, I feel there was intent to harm. I believe it happened multiple times too and finally this time it caused her death. So in his case I think he should have had some kind of punishment. He never even seemed remorseful or sad that his sister had been murdered. He still doesn't. That's what bothers me the most.
It makes me sick to think that a child could do this. But for me at least I do feel there was intent to harm, and severely harm at that.
So, therefore I have no sympathy for him. at all. I'm probably the only one who feels like this though and that's ok.

You are not alone.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

She does look drugged honestly. Either she was drugged or very miserable. She looks sleepy. Those kids that do those pageants are like robots. Like a stepford child.

I think it's possible she is wearing false eyelashes in those photos and they are partly obscuring her eyes, giving her lids a heavy appearance. I'm not sure if there is discussion elsewhere of her wearing false eyelashes for pageants, but I did want to propose it as a possible explanation for the way her eyes look in those photos.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Every single parent would deny it. Every single one.

Deny doing it or deny it happened?


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[PositiveLight]

It's not overtly feminine! I think the black handlebars are angled and make it look like the topmost bar on the bike goes straight across from the seat like a boys bike, but if you follow the green, it appears to me to angle down like a girls.

Size wise, she should be able to sit on the seat and touch the ground with both feet. IMO, it looks to be sized pretty well. :dunno:

It definitely angles down in the middle. You are right. Maybe the reason it looks too big for her is the angle she's standing at behind it?

 

[Linda7NJ]

A mother knows when her child is being abused irregardless of whether or not she consciously admits it. JMO

That's not true.


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[ElleElle]

Couple questions....and hoping long time sleuthers can help here.....my first thought is perhaps JBR carried that blanket down herself when she came down to see what Burke was doing? I know kids who would carry around an oversize blanket like that to go down and watch cartoons in the am.....so was just thinking perhaps she brought that down herself.


Which brought me to this question.....when did JBR get changed into PJ's......did she come back from the whites in them? Parents say she was asleep when they got home....did they change her while she was still asleep? Just wondering if she was asleep the whole time how she went from Xmas dinner clothes, to being found dead in PJ's?

I think the blanket was from the dryer downstairs as it had a Barbie nightgown static clinged to it.

I also think she was changed out her black velvet pants into the white longjohns for bed.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't think she wore fake eyelashes. (not positive on this) But it appears she has naturally long eyelashes and a lot of mascara on them. MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

One thing I find interesting is that the Ramseys allowed Burke to be interviewed on 1/8, yet they wouldn't agree to be interviewed for quite a bit of time later. This seems odd to me if they were covering for Burke.

(That said, I do believe BDI accidentally. Still, this is one of those things that makes me pause and consider other scenarios.)

The Ramsey's didn't have a choice. Had they not complied, he would have been removed from their custody


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[Frigga]

You are absolutely not alone in your thinking- PositiveLight- because even I (over the course of the past week) have drastically changed my opinion of 'on purpose' or 'by accident'. Mainly because of Burkes behavior and words back when it happened but adding in his attitude now along with the old tapes I see a seriously disturbed child and now man. MOO

 

[PositiveLight]

I think the blanket was from the dryer downstairs as it had a Barbie nightgown static clinged to it.

I also think she was changed out her black velvet pants into the white longjohns for bed.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

IIRC I believe this is correct. I think PR went to make sure she went to the potty too? That's when she changed her into pjs?

 

[Frigga]

I don't think she wore fake eyelashes. (not positive on this) But it appears she has naturally long eyelashes and a lot of mascara on them. MOO

Oh my gosh, she was so darling. I would have loved her and protected her and gotten her equally beautiful brother help. What a tragedy.