The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Linda7NJ]

I may be wrong feeling this way... but... and this is my own opinion.... why is it that I look at Burke a little more differently than other children who have caused an accidental death of another child or sibling? This is where the whole accidental death thing rubs me wrong in regards to Burke. I do feel BDI. I always have since it first happened.
I think there is a lot of evidence to point to him as the cause of the head injury. Other children that have caused accidental deaths such as playing with a firearm and accidentally killing a sibling or friend, I feel were pretty much innocent. There was no intent to harm.
With Burke however, I feel there was intent to harm. I believe it happened multiple times too and finally this time it caused her death. So in his case I think he should have had some kind of punishment. He never even seemed remorseful or sad that his sister had been murdered. He still doesn't. That's what bothers me the most.
It makes me sick to think that a child could do this. But for me at least I do feel there was intent to harm, and severely harm at that.
So, therefore I have no sympathy for him. at all. I'm probably the only one who feels like this though and that's ok.

You're not alone.


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[BBB167893]

Let's learn together. Microscopic examination from the autopsy:

focal interstitial chronic inflammation - vaginal mucosa
interstitial chronic inflammation infiltrate - thyroid
mild chronic inflammation - trachea

vascular congestion - vaginal mucosa, lungs, thymus; and perhaps kidney (mild, only in cortex with no inflammation)

I think that many believe that the changes in the vaginal mucosa were evident on gross examination, but they were not - they were noted under microscopic examination.

What do all of those body parts have in common? It isn't "chronic sexual abuse" but rather remnants of the injuries immediately preceding death (vaginal mucosa) and the death by strangulation itself (thyroid, trachea, lungs, thymus) leading to vascular congestion and inflammation. JMO

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, SandyQLS. But I have a problem with this statement:

I think that many believe that the changes in the vaginal mucosa were evident on gross examination, but they were not - they were noted under microscopic examination.

Because they WERE evident on gross examination. McCann's analysis shows that, to say nothing of the side-by-side comparison the police did at their 1998 presentation, where the difference between a normal six-year-old's vagina and JB's was striking.

 

[singularity]

She does look drugged honestly. Either she was drugged or very miserable. She looks sleepy. Those kids that do those pageants are like robots. Like a stepford child.

IMO someone may have been giving her small doses of pain pills and benzos to bind her up due to how many 'accidents' she would have. Constipation is a major side effect of that medication.

Then take into account how some people here say they give these girls tons of energy drinks and that would turn this cocktail into virtually a low grade speedball.

Due to the pageant world, god only knows who possibly gave it to her. Could have just as easily been someone in the pageant world as it was Patsy.

It's not overtly feminine! I think the black handlebars are angled and make it look like the topmost bar on the bike goes straight across from the seat like a boys bike, but if you follow the green, it appears to me to angle down like a girls.

Size wise, she should be able to sit on the seat and touch the ground with both feet. IMO, it looks to be sized pretty well. :dunno:

Yeah its definitely a girl's bike but agree about the size. Maybe this is why Burke remembers her falling off the bike.

 

[keyleigh]

I may be wrong feeling this way... but... and this is my own opinion.... why is it that I look at Burke a little more differently than other children who have caused an accidental death of another child or sibling? This is where the whole accidental death thing rubs me wrong in regards to Burke. I do feel BDI. I always have since it first happened.
I think there is a lot of evidence to point to him as the cause of the head injury. Other children that have caused accidental deaths such as playing with a firearm and accidentally killing a sibling or friend, I feel were pretty much innocent. There was no intent to harm.
With Burke however, I feel there was intent to harm. I believe it happened multiple times too and finally this time it caused her death. So in his case I think he should have had some kind of punishment. He never even seemed remorseful or sad that his sister had been murdered. He still doesn't. That's what bothers me the most.
It makes me sick to think that a child could do this. But for me at least I do feel there was intent to harm, and severely harm at that.
So, therefore I have no sympathy for him. at all. I'm probably the only one who feels like this though and that's ok.

Right there with you. Children can and have committed horrible crimes.

 

[BBB167893]

OK, but they didn't do the autopsy. That is the big difference. They are still just reviewing evidence gathered from the autopsy.

I don't see the coroner disagreeing. The autopsy report itself has it all there: eroded tissue, a hymen all but gone, etc.

And the experts that reviewed the evidence argued both sides.

NO one who viewed those tissue slides had any doubts.

That is why I'm sticking with the original autopsy as the authority.

SO AM I! The experts' findings don't go against it; they expand on it.

Her pediatrician while doing a physical exams found no reason to give her a an internal exam, or he would have.

Sure, he would have. Like I said, he's not the first pediatrician to miss the signs. You could ask Ricky Holland about that, if he weren't dead.

I just checked him on google, there is no record of the man being disbarred or sued for gross negligence. So I count his testimony as good circumstantial evidence backing up the the autopsy.

His testimony is WORTHLESS. Forget that he never performed an internal exam. Forget that most sexual abuse doesn't leave marks. If you take nothing else away, remember this: he hadn't seen her since August.

 

[Sparko96]

The most telling piece of evidence I saw on the special was Burke's re-enactment of JBR's attack, including the bash on the head. I am in the BDI camp, but why did Patsy remain in her clothing from the night before? The BDI explanation would be that she became aware of the attack quickly.


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[ThinkHard]

I may be wrong feeling this way... but... and this is my own opinion.... why is it that I look at Burke a little more differently than other children who have caused an accidental death of another child or sibling? This is where the whole accidental death thing rubs me wrong in regards to Burke. I do feel BDI. I always have since it first happened.
I think there is a lot of evidence to point to him as the cause of the head injury. Other children that have caused accidental deaths such as playing with a firearm and accidentally killing a sibling or friend, I feel were pretty much innocent. There was no intent to harm.
With Burke however, I feel there was intent to harm. I believe it happened multiple times too and finally this time it caused her death. So in his case I think he should have had some kind of punishment. He never even seemed remorseful or sad that his sister had been murdered. He still doesn't. That's what bothers me the most.
It makes me sick to think that a child could do this. But for me at least I do feel there was intent to harm, and severely harm at that.
So, therefore I have no sympathy for him. at all. I'm probably the only one who feels like this though and that's ok.

Burke definetly is disconnected to any emotions regarding the severity of what happened to his sister. During his first taped interview his expressive awareness regarding the seriousness of what was going on in his life at that time would be normal for a five year old child, not an almost ten year old. It was almost like the concept of death was as significant to him as a ham sandwich.

He's bright, but it's obvious his perceptions of the world around him are off, especially for his age.

We again see this same apathy even in adult Burke, who again has behaviors that would be far less weird on an 18 year old, not a 30 year old.

It appears to me from these brief glimpses into Burke that he is cognitively intelligent but emotionally immature, his social and self awareness are lacking, and it appears he has issues with perception of the world that are likely pathological.

Yes some of his behavior are consistent with aspergers....but aspergers dose not account for all of what we observe. I believe it would be more likely to be a different diagnosis entirely.

That all said to explain why it is so hard to be sympathetic to Burke....he doesn't have the same emotional affect you would expect to see in someone who is neurotypical.....which makes him look intentionally cold and distant.

I'm not saying he isn't guilty of a horrible act. But his inability to express emotion or perhaps even feel emotion, is sadly not his fault. It was likely how he was born.

Add onto that he was likely the victim of abuse himself....

It's pretty sad.

Burke didn't ask to be born the way he was, he didn't ask for abuse, he didn't ask for his issues to be glossed over and swept under the rug.....this was a very ill child (my opinion), who wasn't getting the help and support he so desperately needed, and honestly my heart breaks for him.

Those are the very children that pull at my heart strings, the ones everyone else has labeled a problem and have given up on. Those are the ones that need people to try to understand the world and life from their point of view, so you can slowly do the work of walking them down the path to healthy coping mechanism and self love.

 

[BBB167893]

Oh my gosh, she was so darling. I would have loved her and protected her and gotten her equally beautiful brother help. What a tragedy.

Frigga, you've got a heart as big as all outdoors. I know you would have done those things. I would have, too. We love you, angel girl.

 

[singularity]

but why did Patsy remain in her clothing from the night before?

It blows my mind that she didn't lie and just say she drank a lot that day/night and when getting home, she just crashed while still wearing her clothes. Its a believable story and everyone would've bought it. It would have turned the clothing conundrum into a non issue.

 

[Frigga]

That was just beautiful- thank you for putting it in a different perspective. You have a lovely thought process, thinkhard.

 

[Frigga]

It blows my mind that she didn't lie and just say she drank a lot that day/night and when getting home, she just crashed while still wearing her clothes. Its a believable story and everyone would've bought it. It would have turned the clothing conundrum into a non issue.

So true!

 

[ElleElle]

It blows my mind that she didn't lie and just say she drank a lot that day/night and when getting home, she just crashed while still wearing her clothes. Its a believable story and everyone would've bought it. It would have turned the clothing conundrum into a non issue.

I don't think being a Christian, alcohol was involved, so hard to justify. But, I could be wrong.

I

 

[Frigga]

Frigga, you've got a heart as big as all outdoors. I know you would have done those things. I would have, too. We love you, angel girl.

Thank you Dave, from the bottom of my heart- the feeling is mutual.

 

[ThinkHard]

IMO someone may have been giving her small doses of pain pills and benzos to bind her up due to how many 'accidents' she would have. Constipation is a major side effect of that medication.

Then take into account how some people here say they give these girls tons of energy drinks and that would turn this cocktail into virtually a low grade speedball.

Due to the pageant world, god only knows who possibly gave it to her. Could have just as easily been someone in the pageant world as it was Patsy.


Yeah its definitely a girl's bike but agree about the size. Maybe this is why Burke remembers her falling off the bike.

I don't see it being anything sedative because usually pageant girls need energy for long days...id think it would be more likely to be something with a stimulant....like a decongestant allergy med with pseudo ephedrine (such as Zyrtec d, or Sudafed)

She did have lots of nots about chronic respitory issues and sinus issues, I believe we're likely do to undiagnosed food allergies or sensitives or even just environmental allergens......perhaps the "high" from these allergy meds was unintentional.....or perhaps it started out that way, but the side effects of basically being on speed might have been appealing to use for pageants and it could have been misused.....kind of like when parents drug their kids with antihistamines to make them sleepy before a plane ride.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't think being a Christian, alcohol was involved, so hard to justify. But, I could be wrong.

I

Unless she was baptist or Mormon what would her Christian status have anything to do with her alcohol use?

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't think being a Christian, alcohol was involved, so hard to justify. But, I could be wrong.

I

I know a ton of Christians who drink... lol

 

[ElleElle]

Unless she was baptist or Mormon what would her Christian status have anything to do with her alcohol use?

I don't know. I just was not sure if she drank or not and thought Christians did not drink whole lot, or at least not enough to not change into bedtime clothes.

I sometimes wondered if she was a drinker, but have not read that she was.

 

[Alt Suspect]

What? There wasn't any new evidence. Same old stuff they have been hacking about for years. You don't think that it hurts Clemente's career to admit he was wrong?

It wouldn't. Profiling isn't an exact science. The only people that require a profiler to be correct 100% of the time (in order to be credible) are fools with an agenda.

 

[Brendon]

Speaking for me personally, no.

Well, there is another faction here that thinks he slept though the whole thing and Patsy did it. And they are just as sure as you are that the Patsy did it. Interesting.

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't know. I just was not sure if she drank or not and thought Christians did not drink whole lot, or at least not enough to not change into bedtime clothes.

I sometimes wondered if she was a drinker, but have not read that she was.

I don't know why you would have that impression of Christians. There are many many different types of Christianity. A few have strict rules about alcohol such as Baptists, but most Christian religions definetly drink......I mean just look at Christian heavy countries like Ireland, Italy, or France they are all heavy drinking countries with predominant Christianity. Not to meantion many faiths use wine during the actual mass.

So inless like I said she was Baptist or the like, drinking and faith would be separate matters.

Btw my guess is if she was a pill popper, she was a drinker....and I don't think that would be all that uncommon combo for wealthy southern bread women.