The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[johnjay]

Never posted about this...but if you forget your keys is this what you normally do? Break windows and get in? I thought you might call your wife, maid or relative, people had keys to that house.

Especially since we're told so many other people had keys.

 

[Tortoise]

Yeah, I don't know.....I don't know why he'd break the window to make it look like an intruder, but then go and admit he broke the window himself......it doesn't really make sense unless he knew there'd be evidence of him breaking it (i.e. his blood on it or something). But I still don't believe he broke into his own house the summer before.

He'd already asked the housekeeper's husband to fix it. It was on their list of jobs to do.

 

[Tortoise]

Don't think there was ever a plan to remove her or else they would have done that prior to the 911 call.

And have neighbours saying they heard or saw his car leaving and returning before the time he would have been naturally awake? Who goes out on an errand at 2 or 3 am? How could he have explained that? Plus there would have been tyre tracks in the ground frost.

 

[TTF14]

And have neighbours saying they heard or saw his car leaving and returning before the time he would have been naturally awake? Who goes out on an errand at 2 or 3 am? How could he have explained that?

Exactly. They were just going to transport her when they left for their trip (that they were apparently still going on even though their daughter was kidnapped?)

 

[Brendon]

and no one bothered to clean up the glass..

I think the glass from when John Ramsey broke in previously had been cleaned up inside the house. I don't remember any detectives saying there was an amount of class on the floor near the suitcase underneath.

 

[TTF14]

http://blabbieville.tripod.com/1995xmasnewsletter.txt

Patsy is quite the wordsmith. Interesting.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

John and Patsy Ramsey 1995 Christmas Newsletter

Twas a week before Christmas with a million things to do, And wouldn't you
know it, Mom came down with the flu. Fortunately the gifts were all gotten and
under the tree, But the Christmas cards didn't make it - as you can well see! So
we'll take this opportunity to extend the Holiday Cheer. And be the first to wish
you a Healthy & Happy New Year!

We've finally given in to the computerized form letter! What better way to
keep the high-tech industry in business!? Speaking of business, John and
Access are going great guns. Europe has been successfully conquered with
offices in every country except Norway! Mexico & Canada opened too. (Can
you believe this grew out of our garage on Northridge?) Anyway, John was
rewarded by parent company, Lockheed-Martin, by being elected an office
of the company.

All work and no play make John a dull boy, so he leaves plenty of time for the
latter. This year John, John Andrew, and Melinda took the crew of the Miss
America (our sailing sloop) to victories in the NOOD Races in Chicago and a
4th place division finish of the Chicago-Mackinac Island Race. Seventy-knot
winds in the Mac race really made the finish line look pretty good! John Andrew
is a freshman at CU here in Boulder, and Melinda is due to complete her Nursing
Degree from MCG [Medical College of Georgia] in Augusta next June.

Burke is busy in his third grade year at a new school named High Peaks. It is a
Core Knowledge school which accesses high academics and personal achievement.
He loves it! He continues with Boy Scouting and the piano. This winter he is the
tallest guy on his basketball team. Summer on Charlevoix was spent taking golf
and sailing lessons each day. Burke is quite the sailor!

JonBenet too had a busy summer in Charlevoix. She was crowned Little Miss
Charlevoix in a pageant in June and spent the rest of the summer riding in convertibles
in various home-town parades throughout Michigan. She performed a patriotic tap &
song for her talent. She and Burke both won ribbons in several decorated bicycle
contests. In October, JonBenet become Little Miss Colorado, she rode on the
"Good Ship Lollipop" float during the Boulder Christmas parade. (Grandpa Paugh
built the float!) She waved and sang all along the parade route! She also takes piano,
violin, and drama classes. Busy little Pre-kindergartener![sic] (Busy Mom hauling
her around!)

I continue to have good check-ups at NIH in Bethesda, MD. God has surely blessed
me with energy and the ability to return to raising a family. I thank Him every morning
when I wake up and see the sunrise reflecting on the Flatirons over Boulder. Please
continue to keep us in your prayers.

Hope your Christmas was merry and here's to 1996! By the time you read this we'll be
cheering on the Buffs at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas and then on to the Fiesta Bowl in
Phoenix! Thanks to everyone who visited us in Colorado or Charlevoix this year.
Please come see us in 1996! Love to you all!

The Ramseys

Would a person who took daily sailing lessons and was becoming quite the sailor know how to tie fancy knots?

 

[johnjay]

But it doesnt explain her death, some sort of death threat would have done that. Like "I murdered your daughter cause your a John. Victory!" That would make sense. A ransom note explains missing, but thats just temporary unless your plan is to remove her from the house, but then why "find" her later!?!? Its just not logical, especially given that a handwritten 3 page ransom note is so probably incriminating.

Well I'm thinking this was the perps first major crime, we shouldn't judge their criminal technical skills too harshly.

 

[ThinkHard]

BBM.........reminds me of RN "VICTORY!"
and notice PR rattles on about JBR more than anything in this letter

Well she certainly has a flair for exaggeration! 70 knot winds.....my *ss! That's over 80 mph! Small craft warnings are issued at 25 knots......they weren't racing super yachts.....there is zero chance wind speeds were that high and the race continued....zero chance. (Btw I've been sailing since I was 5, was competing from age 13 through college, and have worked on super yachts around the world, instructed sailing, and been a racing coach)

 

[reintarnation]

Never posted about this...but if you forget your keys is this what you normally do? Break windows and get in? I thought you might call your wife, maid or relative, people had keys to that house.

PR and the kids were in Charlevoix and JR was home by himself. Although, yes, with all the spare keys they had given out, you would think it would be better to get one of those.

But if he didn't have a cell phone on him (and remember this is 1996), depending on how he was dressed, what he was doing, if he had appointments to get to, etc., I could see him breaking in rather than driving around hoping someone with a spare key was home.

My husband did this twice - once he was able to jimmy a window open without breaking it, but another time he busted our screen door.

The fact that this window was in such an out-of-the-way and fairly well-concealed area, maybe he figured it would be no big deal (unlike breaking, say, the living room window or something).

They did clean the glass up except for a couple of small kernels that got missed. The only thing that really bothers me about this is that they never had the window repaired. But, given the condition of the rest of their house that was not seen by guests, maybe it's not so surprising after all that they would let that go.

 

[madeleine]

But it doesnt explain her death, some sort of death threat would have done that. Like "I murdered your daughter cause your a John. Victory!" That would make sense. A ransom note explains missing, but thats just temporary unless your plan is to remove her from the house, but then why "find" her later!?!? Its just not logical, especially given that a handwritten 3 page ransom note is so probably incriminating.

plans can change when you are getting cold feet and you are panicked

 

[andreww]

Why argue with success, it worked.

Exactly, just read the ransom note! This whole scheme was developed by a high society rich girl whose only knowledge of the underbelly of society came from watching hollywood movies. That is why the ransom note so heavily borrows from the movies, because Patsy has no clue as to what a low life **** would actually sound like.

 

[johnjay]

Here's my confusion re the indictment. First degree means intent, no? And this means it wasn't just an accident like many BDI' s believe?

That's what I got from the indictment. You can read it here:

https://www.courts.state.co.us/Media/Opinion_Docs/JRamsey Grand Jury.pdf

They weren't thinking the parents covered up an accident - no no.

And since the records are sealed we can't know what drove them to go that far - but I'm thinking their judgment has held up well to time while the judgment of the DA and others, not so much.

 

[TTF14]

Well she certainly has a flair for exaggeration! 70 knot winds.....my *ss! That's over 80 mph! Small craft warnings are issued at 25 knots......they weren't racing super yachts.....there is zero chance wind speeds were that high and the race continued....zero chance. (Btw I've been sailing since I was 5, was competing from age 13 through college, and have worked on super yachts around the world, instructed sailing, and been a racing coach)

Do you know how to tie fancy knots? Could you make a garrote?

 

[TTF14]

PR and the kids were in Charlevoix and JR was home by himself. Although, yes, with all the spare keys they had given out, you would think it would be better to get one of those.

But if he didn't have a cell phone on him (and remember this is 1996), depending on how he was dressed, what he was doing, if he had appointments to get to, etc., I could see him breaking in rather than driving around hoping someone with a spare key was home.

My husband did this twice - once he was able to jimmy a window open without breaking it, but another time he busted our screen door.

The fact that this window was in such an out-of-the-way and fairly well-concealed area, maybe he figured it would be no big deal (unlike breaking, say, the living room window or something).

They did clean the glass up except for a couple of small kernels that got missed. The only thing that really bothers me about this is that they never had the window repaired. But, given the condition of the rest of their house that was not seen by guests, maybe it's not so surprising after all that they would let that go.

All good points so maybe he was being truthful about the window?

 

[Brendon]

Why argue with success, it worked.

I'm not arguing with "success". I'm trying to make sense of the narrative. My bs detector is aligned to the script I'm hearing. Thats how I think. I don't care how wild it is, the story should never smell fishy to me, or else I ask questions. Sometimes I get satisfactory answers. Sometimes not. I often note when people don't reply to a question, but want to change the subject. But thats just me.

 

[passionflower]

Woah woah, urine stain on what carpet? I had never heard this.

I think u dont release your bladder when u go unconsious only when u r dying though im certainly not an expert

BBM......I missed this!

 

[reintarnation]

Occam's Razor for me. No matter how unlikely it is that John/Patsy/Burke were involved, it is infinitely more unlikely that some mystery intruder(s) with an extremely laid back attitude to carrying out their cunning plan (as evidenced by their reliance on several items they rustled up at the crime scene) did it.

BUMP.

Exactly, Me66! Welcome to WS and the JBR forum, and thanks for so succinctly summing it up!

If you are looking solely at the evidence, it's really as simple as this.

 

[johnjay]

He said he returned in a taxi near midnight from a business trip. Patsy and the kids were away, during August. He felt it was too late to knock on neighbour's doors to get the spare key from them.

And preferred to break glass in a quiet neighborhood near midnight - that surely couldn't cause any disturbance.

 

[andreww]

PR and the kids were in Charlevoix and JR was home by himself. Although, yes, with all the spare keys they had given out, you would think it would be better to get one of those.

But if he didn't have a cell phone on him (and remember this is 1996), depending on how he was dressed, what he was doing, if he had appointments to get to, etc., I could see him breaking in rather than driving around hoping someone with a spare key was home.

My husband did this twice - once he was able to jimmy a window open without breaking it, but another time he busted our screen door.

The fact that this window was in such an out-of-the-way and fairly well-concealed area, maybe he figured it would be no big deal (unlike breaking, say, the living room window or something).

They did clean the glass up except for a couple of small kernels that got missed. The only thing that really bothers me about this is that they never had the window repaired. But, given the condition of the rest of their house that was not seen by guests, maybe it's not so surprising after all that they would let that go.

It is very funny how the Ramsey will say that everybody had a key to that house, gardeners, contractors, maids, etc., etc., yet john can't call anybody that would have a key.

Here is another fact about the window that is odd. In all the police videos you will see that window wide open. On that morning John tells police that he looked for an entry point and found none. Police look around and that window is locked. It is not until his police interview that John reveals that when he went in the basement before cops arrived, he found the window open and he shut it without mentioning it to anybody.

 

[Tortoise]

And preferred to break glass in a quiet neighborhood near midnight - that surely couldn't cause any disturbance.

He kicked it with the toe of his shoe. How much noise do you think that would make?

Why are you doubting it? It was on the housekeepers repair list, as I've already posted.

And that was probably the only thing that stopped him from telling the police an intruder did it.