The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[marlywings]

I must be annoying as a late starter. Sorry.

I am a late starter too - not annoying to me

No need to apologise at all! We were all first timers on here at some stage.

Please do ask questions...there'll always be someone on board to help you out

 

[they'll get you]

Wondering if the blood line would indicate it was dripping while the car was moving.

 

[marlywings]

Interesting the footy show commences at about 8.40pm and GBC removes his phone from charge at 8.45pm he does not replace it until 148 am on the 20th.
Wonder if he still had his pj's and joggers on.

From what I recall, back in 2012, the footy show started at 9pm but frequently started late. And sometimes it didn't finish until after 11pm.

Apparently, last year the program time was rescheduled & supposed to start at 8.30pm.

 

[MadDoc]

Here's an abstract of a medical journal article about overdoses of Zoloft (sertraline).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8808373

Summary: A study of 42 cases of sertraline overdose. The maximum dose taken was 8,000 mg (I seem to recall that Allison was on 100mg daily?). Most common symptoms were tremor (shaking), lethargy and nausea. The average time from overdose to presentation at hospital was 3 hours. 12 people were admitted for 24-hour observation. Of the rest, average stay in the emergency department was 3.9 hours. Nobody died.

CONCLUSION:

Sertraline is commonly taken in overdose with other medications or alcohol. The signs and symptoms that develop in association with an overdose of sertraline appear to be minor and of short duration.

 

[Thinking]

So we only heard from one of the new/later called witnesses today, yes? I recall reading from Whatif that there would be two - perhaps the second will show on Tuesday if that is the case.

 

[Makara]

A long gap follows ......


06.00am hours OW was at the GBC household, when the children were told Mummy had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back.

Respectfully snipped.

LadyBird it has never been established that OW was at GBC's at 6:00am on 20 April 2012.

According to Constable Ash's statement;

28. Shortly after Gerard's sister Olivia WALTON arrived back at the address after having taken the children to school. She went upstairs into the house, but quickly returned back downstairs. I asked her what the girls had been told this morning, she said "that Gerard told the girls shortly after 6am that mummy had gone for a walk and probably fell done a hole and would not be back" she then asked 'is that's ok".

GBC told the girls shortly after 6:00am, not OW.

BBM.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*

 

[they'll get you]

PS - my "name" SNAILS - those last 5 letters are the most crucial piece of evidence in my opinion. Looking forward to a restful weekend before week three of the trial. Thank you to all the contributors. You're the best! X

I'm sorry I don't understand ?

 

[marlywings]

I think the difference is the police saw no scrubbed carpet patches for eg whereas Mrs Dickie saw a house that was very very tidy when it usually wasn't.

Yep as in majority of murder cases police look for signs such as recently cleaned carpets, bleached areas etc.

Novy Chardon case comes to mind...her husband,#1 suspect, hired a carpet cleaner the morning after Novy's disappearance.

Max Sica case....areas through the house that had been washed down with bleach in attempt to destroy traces of DNA

 

[Snails]

I'm sorry I don't understand ?

S-"NAILS" - I.e. fingernails. Allison certainly left her mark there. MOO.

 

[they'll get you]

How do baby monitors work? Is there one main base which 'listens' and several speakers. Can you hear from each one.

The daughter said GBC was up and down the stairs. Could Allison hear a conversation (phone or someone there) and go outside to question?

 

[Consider]

The white bright substance is not the blood. There was only one smudge with 2 drips of blood down to the floor on the driver side wall/wheel arch in the boot area. That boot area has the pop up third row of seats. There is a photo a few pages ago on this thread that shows the blood. There are also photos that the blood has highlighted as blue presumably from the chemical used.

Thank you. You've clarified terminology and so much more here.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Thanks for raising this because it allows us to again bring this back to the point at issue during this trial of the murder of Allison.

Defense is trained to layer the silvery layers of reasonable doubt each time prosecution is layering thick flagstones of road paving of evidence of proof.

Now you are questioning the prosecutions evidence...trust me they have rock/flagstones they are positioning very methodically to build this big picture for the jury.

I wasn't actually questioning the prosecutions evidence. I believe it was the defence harping on the suicide theory again. I understand its their job to do it. And I know they need to try to prove reasonable doubt. I just don't think the suicide theory does show reasonable doubt or an alternative theory, unless they can put up the theory of how Allison got to the bridge.

 

[Makara]

That's a lot of blood (droplets?) with a distinct and similar pattern on both hubs
(previously I saw only a photo of one blood splattered hub..)

The 'pattern' and then lack of blood between the two hubs is baffling (to me).
Presumably when those seats are up there's no blood on them?

Doesn't say much for tarp and roping skills Messrs Baden-! IMO

I must be annoying as a late starter. Sorry.

This is a photo of the only blood found in the Captiva and later established as Allison's. If you look at the bottom of the image where the HC2 tag is, you'll see a long, light coloured hair stuck to the blood near the floor.

I've also included a zoomed image of the hair, which has also been established as Allison's.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz353USYatl

 

[DrWatson]

Here's an abstract of a medical journal article about overdoses of Zoloft (sertraline).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8808373

Summary: A study of 42 cases of sertraline overdose. The maximum dose taken was 8,000 mg (I seem to recall that Allison was on 100mg daily?). Most common symptoms were tremor (shaking), lethargy and nausea. The average time from overdose to presentation at hospital was 3 hours. 12 people were admitted for 24-hour observation. Of the rest, average stay in the emergency department was 3.9 hours. Nobody died.

Way back - Marly would be able to find it with her superior searching skills - there is extensive discussion on sertraline ("Zoloft") dosage, blood levels, levels in the liver (both blood and tissue), the post-mortem redistribution that occurs, etc etc.

All that information was sent to the prosecution, and it was used by Rob Hoskins in his testimony at the bail hearing to blow the whole "Suicide by Overdose of Zoloft" theory out of the water.

They need to put him back up there to go through that again - perhaps they will if the defence try to push the Zoloft overdose theory too hard again.

 

[KG1]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 15s

Dr George agrees Allison told him she was prone to anxiety and had experienced it as a child. #badenclay

Dr George agrees Allison had a bad reaction to an anti malarial medication, hallucinations. He said that drug now discredited. #badenclay

Dr George says Allison told him she relied on her husband's support and reassurance when she was going through periods of anxiety.

Defence says in February, 2006, Allison told the doctor her symptoms were returning and she wanted to go back onto Zoloft. #badenclay

Defence says anxiety seemed to occur during each of Allison's pregnancies. #badenclay

Her pregnancies should have been times of great happiness to her. Perhaps her anxiety was caused by the 'others' expectations for a male heir. MOO

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I have limited medical knowledge but how much blood flow would there be from injury to a deceased person?

Yes my thought too. If the heart is not pumping, then there is no circulatory system to pump the blood? I am also not sure how much blood flow there would be from an injury to an already deceased body. Maybe I'm having a vague moment here(?)

Dr Watson or any other medical experts?

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

This is a photo of the only blood found in the Captiva and later established as Allison's. If you look at the bottom of the image where the HC2 tag is, you'll see a long, light coloured hair stuck to the blood near the floor.

I've also included a zoomed image of the hair, which has also been established as Allison's.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz353USYatl

Makara, wasn't the blood also found on the wheel arches in the back of the captiva? I posted a photo a few pages back and thought way back in the early stages the photos were released showing where the luminol was indicating the blood? That it was on the door there that you have shown and in the back. Is that wrong? If so , appologies for my mistake.. might have to go sit back in my box, lol.

 

[Makara]

Makara, wasn't the blood also found on the wheel arches in the back of the captiva? I posted a photo a few pages back and thought way back in the early stages the photos were released showing where the luminol was indicating the blood? That it was on the door there that you have shown and in the back. Is that wrong? If so , appologies for my mistake.. might have to go sit back in my box, lol.

I've not read anything at all about blood on the wheel arches. There was plenty of luminal (or whatever it was) in the some of the photos and the first impression would be it looks like a bloodbath. The only blood found in the Captiva is indicated in the images I just posted upthread.

Nah, don't go and sit back in your box. We need you here.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Legally they don't have to explain how she would have done it do they? I am no expert and could well be wrong but I thought all they had to do was present an alternate possibility to create reasonable doubt? Not prove something else happened?

No, you are right. They do just have to create reasonable doubt. And I am not a legal expert either, but I would think the alternate possibility they put forward, would have to show some reasonable possibilty to sway the jury from the theory put forward by the prosecution. My questions of wanting to know how they propose she did it was not that they have to prove how she did it, just that I can't see a reasonable explanation for their alternative and I'd like to know what it is IF they have one.. I hope that all made sense, lol.

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I've not read anything at all about blood on the wheel arches. There was plenty of luminal (or whatever it was) in the some of the photos and the first impression would be it looks like a bloodbath. The only blood found in the Captiva is indicated in the images I just posted upthread.

Nah, don't go and sit back in your box. We need you here.

ha,ha.. :blushing:. You could be right re the blood. My memory is hazy and didn't help that the site (ABC) that I got the photo from was saying it was blood. I never thought there was that much blood, but did think there was 2 places in the car that it was found- the door and one of the wheel arches. But as I said memory is hazy and maybe I'm wrong then. Again appologies for any confusion.