The Cuts

[Goody]

Please don't say you've got Yankee in you! The horror! LOL

O, yes. I am half yankee and half southerner. As a matter of fact, my paternal roots hail from Appomattox.

 

[Mullins]

...I've heard it described as "telling someone to go to H - - - in such a way that they are looking forward to the trip...." :blushing: I shudder to think that I might have done so myself on past occasions.... And BTW I agree with the statement "in every lie there is a grain of truth" I think Darlie would even agree in retrospect. Whether or not she'd admit it's another story.

:twocents: TA, Schmemporary Amnesia

aaaaahahahahahaha! You are so right. We southerners have our ways, don't we? I guess I just have enough yankee in me to call it just as I see it with no qualifiers, but I like the one you just mentioned. It is killing them softly, isn't it? Or maybe killing them with kindness?

 

[Goody]

...I've heard it described as "telling someone to go to H - - - in such a way that they are looking forward to the trip...." :blushing: I shudder to think that I might have done so myself on past occasions.... :twocents: TA, Schmemporary Amnesia

LOL! That is another good one!

 

[Dani_T]

Boy, does it ever! In his closing statement, Toby Shook said several times, "She hadn't come up with the amnesia defense yet." He had her number alright

Which is why I believe she never intended to cut herself at all that night. She was going to claim she slept through it (either right there on the couch or more likely climb into bed with Darin and say she slept through it there) but she cut herself and then had to make it look convincing so did her neck as well and THEN later on realised she needed the traumatic amnesia defense because the story she had prepared wasn't going to cut it anymore.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Which is why I believe she never intended to cut herself at all that night. She was going to claim she slept through it (either right there on the couch or more likely climb into bed with Darin and say she slept through it there) but she cut herself and then had to make it look convincing so did her neck as well and THEN later on realised she needed the traumatic amnesia defense because the story she had prepared wasn't going to cut it anymore.

Dani T. it is this that I find trouble to understand. If Darlie did kill them, why so messy? She like her things very clean. Would a person who was very clean desire to get blood all over? To me it does not seem so. There are muh more ways of killing. Why don't she choose another? An why say she sleeps while it happens? Very not smart thing to say. An why say she cut herself when cutting her young sons? I don't have a memory of reading that.

 

[Goody]

Dani T. it is this that I find trouble to understand. If Darlie did kill them, why so messy? She like her things very clean. Would a person who was very clean desire to get blood all over? To me it does not seem so. There are muh more ways of killing. Why don't she choose another? An why say she sleeps while it happens? Very not smart thing to say. An why say she cut herself when cutting her young sons? I don't have a memory of reading that.

Good questions, Snooty. First, I think you have to look at the narcisstic personality to understand. Darlie loved being the center of attention, she loved drama, and while she also loved her material things, she knew that some would have to be sacrificed for the greater good if she had any hope of pulling it off. Besides, she didn't ruin anything but the carpet. The couches were vinyl and washable, and the coffee table was not broken. She lost one wine glass that easily replacable. That looks like a preconceived plan rather than a sudden unplanned reaction to some domestic disturbance.

Psychologically speaking, it seems that most of these people who commit such hideous crimes simply expect to be believed. They concoct a story as if mapping out a made for TV mystery and are shocked when people don't buy into it. I think that Darlie was so used to being catered to by those around her that she just never anticipated people NOT believing her, at least not to any great length. In short, she thought she could sell it, and what didn't fit in or make sense would be written off as just one of those oddball things that happen in life. She thought her beauty, her sex appeal, her personality could win over anyone who was doubtful, and as long as she resisted explaining the details, she would be okay...let the cops put the pieces together. If they couldn't, in her mind they couldn't convict her. Like a lot of people she confused reasonable doubt with no doubt at all, thinking that any doubt would force authorities to look for her phantom intruder rather than her or Darin. Never in her wildest dreams did she think she would be arrested. Just look at her mug shot. She is blown away when that happens.

Why did she choose the weapons she did? I don't know, Her penchant for drama comes to mind. Intruders do sometimes use weapons in the house to kill people, that way a weapon can't be traced back to them if they don't leave behind any fingerprints. For someone in the house, a knife is a convenient and relatively safe weapon to choose for the same reason, only in reverse. It can be traced back to them, but they live there and therefore have a reason to handle it. Also, if they use a kitchen knife, they don't have to dispose of it. Disposing of it could link them to the crime whereas just dropping it in the kitchen would not. At least not necessarily. Besides a stranger wouldn't use the victim's knife and then take it with them.

Also, if one is planning to paint themselves as a sympathetic victim and take advantage of whatever media attention they get from it for whatever their reasons might be (probably financial), the bloodier the better. I know it sounds awful but it is dramatic and definitely enhances the victimology in it. Whether she mapped all of this out ahead of time or just took advantage of the turn of events as they turned, the drama is still there and she was the star of the show. It just didn't take her to where she thought it might.

I can almost see her kicking back and talking (to her partner in crime) or thinking....Now what would knock this town back on its haunches?

The biggest problem with this case is that there is a list of things that support premeditation and a list that supports a sudden rage, there is a list that supports a Darlie only killer and a list that supports a they did it together theory.

 

[Goody]

Which is why I believe she never intended to cut herself at all that night. She was going to claim she slept through it (either right there on the couch or more likely climb into bed with Darin and say she slept through it there) but she cut herself and then had to make it look convincing so did her neck as well and THEN later on realised she needed the traumatic amnesia defense because the story she had prepared wasn't going to cut it anymore.

Do you think she planned the murders before that night and proceeded to carry the murders out alone, set up her own story, alibi, etc?

 

[Dani_T]

Dani T. it is this that I find trouble to understand. If Darlie did kill them, why so messy? She like her things very clean. Would a person who was very clean desire to get blood all over? To me it does not seem so. There are muh more ways of killing. Why don't she choose another? An why say she sleeps while it happens? Very not smart thing to say. An why say she cut herself when cutting her young sons? I don't have a memory of reading that.

Hey Snooty,

I don't think Darlie intended for it to be so messy. I think she expected to stab the boys with a minimum of blood and fuss and didn't expect that
a) She would be cut
b) Damon would drag himself halfway across the room

which necessitated a lot of improvisation on her part. If all had gone to plan (to my way of thinking) she would have stabbed the boys so that they lay dead where they were, cleaned the knife, perhaps taken the sock outside (although who knows if this was part of the improvisation) and probably gone upstairs to Darin so that she could wake and be shocked in the morning about what happened downstairs after she had gone upstairs (she may have even suggested the intruder waited for her to go upstairs before he attacked).

Things only got messy when she found herself tied to the scene because she had been injured (accidentally in the commission of the crime) and had to make it look more serious. Then she had to run around, bleeding, in the scene because she couldn't just go upstairs anymore, thus making the scene a heck of a lot messier than it would have been.

But in terms of WHY choose stabbing? Well who is going to believe that an intruder came into the house and decided to smother two boys to death with cushions? What other ways are there beyond suffication, strangulation (which I doubt she would have had the strength to do), poisioning (not viable for an intruder), gunshot or stabbing? If she wanted to make it look like an intruder it had to be stabbing or gunshot. Suffication and strangulation are not quick deaths. Chances are if someone had strangled one of the boys to death their struggles would have woken the other boy and then he would have been up and screaming bringing Darin downstairs. No, I can't see any other option apart from stabbing or gunshot which fit with the intruder scenario.

 

[Dani_T]

Do you think she planned the murders before that night and proceeded to carry the murders out alone, set up her own story, alibi, etc?

Yeah, I think the murders were premeditated - perhaps only a few hours, perhaps a few days (hence her pattern of sleeping downstairs), perhaps weeks in the making. Who knows? But I think she planned what she was going to do. I think she planned that she would cut the screen, stab the boys, stage a little bit (perhaps even planning to make it look they had been robbed by hiding the jewellery and then in the chaos that ensued didn't do that?) and then probably go upstairs, slip into bed without waking Darin and then discover the boys in the morning.

Then that all got shot to hell when she accidentally cut herself.

 

[Goody]

Yeah, I think the murders were premeditated - perhaps only a few hours, perhaps a few days (hence her pattern of sleeping downstairs), perhaps weeks in the making. Who knows? But I think she planned what she was going to do. I think she planned that she would cut the screen, stab the boys, stage a little bit (perhaps even planning to make it look they had been robbed by hiding the jewellery and then in the chaos that ensued didn't do that?) and then probably go upstairs, slip into bed without waking Darin and then discover the boys in the morning.

Then that all got shot to hell when she accidentally cut herself.

Why did Darin go back after the ambulances left to look at the screen in the garage?

 

[Dani_T]

Why did Darin go back after the ambulances left to look at the screen in the garage?

I don't find that action unusual, or suspicious really. If someone had broken into my home and killed my two boys and attacked my wife and someone said he came through the garage I'd take a look aswell- if for no other reason than I was in a state of shock and disbelief.

I'm really leaning towards Darin not having any involvement in the crime but covering for Darlie later (although maybe not knowing or being willing to admit her guilt to himself).

 

[Mary456]

Why did Darin go back after the ambulances left to look at the screen in the garage?

Goody, we only have Darin's word that he went back in to look at the screen, but it's very, very unlikely that he did. When he and the Neals came to the front door - while Darlie was still on the front porch - the police officer only allowed Karen to enter because she was a nurse. The rest of them, including Darin, were not allowed to step foot into the house. The cops had already sealed the crime scene at that point, so it's very unlikely that they would have let Darin wander around in the house after the ambulances left.

It was another one of Darin's lies, possibly concocted to make the police look bad and/or to suggest a contaminated crime scene. I haven't seen any testimony, other than Darin's, that he was given free reign to traipse through the hallway, kitchen, utility room, and into the garage. Baloney!

 

[Goody]

Goody, we only have Darin's word that he went back in to look at the screen, but it's very, very unlikely that he did. When he and the Neals came to the front door - while Darlie was still on the front porch - the police officer only allowed Karen to enter because she was a nurse. The rest of them, including Darin, were not allowed to step foot into the house. The cops had already sealed the crime scene at that point, so it's very unlikely that they would have let Darin wander around in the house after the ambulances left.

It was another one of Darin's lies, possibly concocted to make the police look bad and/or to suggest a contaminated crime scene. I haven't seen any testimony, other than Darin's, that he was given free reign to traipse through the hallway, kitchen, utility room, and into the garage. Baloney!

I know, Mary. The more I think about it,the more I am inclined to agree with you. But I think the reason he may have lied about it was probably because he wanted to make himself appear to be innocent. He came up with that at the trial. By then I think he was seriously trying to protect his own butt without alienating Darlie. That is probably what that whole trip to Bond Street right before the trial was, too. An every man for himself back up plan, so to speak.

 

[Mary456]

I'm really leaning towards Darin not having any involvement in the crime but covering for Darlie later (although maybe not knowing or being willing to admit her guilt to himself).

I've always felt that way, Dani. I've tried and tried to construct a scenario in which Darin was involved in the murders, or stabbing Darlie, or staging the crime scene, but it simply doesn't wash with any of the physical evidence.

Couple that with his reactions: his first thought was that Devon had knocked over the coffee table and cut himself. That's probably what any parent of an active six-year old boy would think under the circumstances. It doesn't sound "made up" to me, it sounds like a logical presumption. Then there are his obvious efforts to get help, including running across the street for Karen (why he went for Karen after the paramedics arrived, who knows? In the chaos, he may not have even realized that Kolbye and Koschak were paramedics, or maybe he placed more trust in Karen, a good friend who also happened to be a nurse).

I'm trying to keep an open mind regarding Darin's involvement, but everything so far tells me that his immediate reactions were genuine and logical. The pathetic lies emerged later to protect Darlie.

 

[Goody]

I've always felt that way, Dani. I've tried and tried to construct a scenario in which Darin was involved in the murders, or stabbing Darlie, or staging the crime scene, but it simply doesn't wash with any of the physical evidence.

Couple that with his reactions: his first thought was that Devon had knocked over the coffee table and cut himself. That's probably what any parent of an active six-year old boy would think under the circumstances. It doesn't sound "made up" to me, it sounds like a logical presumption. Then there are his obvious efforts to get help, including running across the street for Karen (why he went for Karen after the paramedics arrived, who knows? In the chaos, he may not have even realized that Kolbye and Koschak were paramedics, or maybe he placed more trust in Karen, a good friend who also happened to be a nurse).

I'm trying to keep an open mind regarding Darin's involvement, but everything so far tells me that his immediate reactions were genuine and logical. The pathetic lies emerged later to protect Darlie.

Yes, but when did he come running down the stairs, Mary? Just before they called 911 or an hour before? How can you be sooooooo sure he wasn't acting? I know what you mean though. There are times when I lean toward his innocence, too, but then there is so much I don't know what to do with when I do? Explaining Darin is the single most difficult thing in this case.

 

[Dani_T]

Yes, but when did he come running down the stairs, Mary? Just before they called 911 or an hour before? How can you be sooooooo sure he wasn't acting? I know what you mean though. There are times when I lean toward his innocence, too, but then there is so much I don't know what to do with when I do? Explaining Darin is the single most difficult thing in this case.

Listen to his voice on the 911 call. It really sounds genuine. He is desperate to get help. He's angry at Darlie for stuffing around. He's not doing her "who would do this who would do this who would do this" thing. He sounds genuinely shocked and scared out of his wits for his boys. Sure, he may have been acting I guess- but I just really doubt it. It seems to me that he came down those stairs and found a scene from his worst nightmare.

 

[Goody]

Listen to his voice on the 911 call. It really sounds genuine. He is desperate to get help. He's angry at Darlie for stuffing around. He's not doing her "who would do this who would do this who would do this" thing. He sounds genuinely shocked and scared out of his wits for his boys. Sure, he may have been acting I guess- but I just really doubt it. It seems to me that he came down those stairs and found a scene from his worst nightmare.

Definitely possible. I am just not sold on it. Probably won't be unless I can do something with some of the other out of sync Darin stuff.

I really think if he had nothing to fear from Darlie, he would have dumped her by now, esp since people would understand and have empathy for him. He'd be getting on with his life instead of putting it on hold to show his loyalty for her. At some point, he would hate her for she did, not only to the children but to what she did to their lives. This crime destroyed it totally.

 

[Dani_T]

I really think if he had nothing to fear from Darlie, he would have dumped her by now, esp since people would understand and have empathy for him. He'd be getting on with his life instead of putting it on hold to show his loyalty for her. At some point, he would hate her for she did, not only to the children but to what she did to their lives. This crime destroyed it totally.

But IS he still supporting her?? I haven't seen anything from him in years. Is he still proclaiming her innocence? We know that she is stating

 

[Mary456]

I really think if he had nothing to fear from Darlie, he would have dumped her by now, esp since people would understand and have empathy for him.

Maybe he did dump her, Goody. We really don't know what their relationship is at this point. J.G. insists that it's been over between them for years. True? I don't know, but one thing is for certain: Darin didn't even attend the news conference in August of 2004, after her second appeal was denied, nor did he give any excuse (like illness, etc.) for not being there. Doesn't sound like the old Darin who latched onto every opportunity to proclaim his wife's innocence.

Want to hear my take on this? Of course you do! Darin, for whatever reason - feeling responsible because he ignored Darlie's emotional problems, pressure from Darlie/ Mama Kee - decided early on to support his wife. He did the interviews and the talk shows, because he really believed he could convince people that Darlie was innocent. Didn't work, and even Dumbo Darin finally realized the public wasn't buying it, including the bogus insurance scam.

Fast forward a few years and a light bulb finally comes on in Darin's head: Darlie can never disclose his involvement, because it would also require admitting her own guilt, and any further appeals would be down the drain. She can't involve him in any way - not as the killer, not as an accomplice, not as an accessory after the fact - because the physical evidence doesn't support it, and she swore under oath that he had nothing to do with the murders. Darlie's over a barrel (as she should be) and Darin's basically home free (as he shouldn't be).

 

[beesy]

Maybe he did dump her, Goody. We really don't know what their relationship is at this point. J.G. insists that it's been over between them for years. True? I don't know, but one thing is for certain: Darin didn't even attend the news conference in August of 2004, after her second appeal was denied, nor did he give any excuse (like illness, etc.) for not being there. Doesn't sound like the old Darin who latched onto every opportunity to proclaim his wife's innocence.

hey...psst...who's J.G. So doofus wasn't there, eh? Interesting....