The danger of a closed mind

[sissi]

Fleet demanded that he and his family be cleared. It's not just in a book, it's in all of the books. The issue was resolved by telling him okay, with the knowledge that the decision could easily be reversed. Funny, though, that wasn't good enough, so Fleet tried to get Hunter out of office, wrote two letters to that effect. Why was he so adamant about being cleared? One can only guess being cleared suggests they could not "bother" you or your family collecting non testimonial evidence. Some thought he was seeking "justice" for Jonbenet, if that's so his timing was "way off".

In Singular's book there are many mentions of dialogue between Hunter and others, Beckner found the White's to be "morally empty" and said so. Fleet's name you will find , Seeker, was tossed around, long after this "clearing", as a very viable suspect.

 

[narlacat]

<<Why was he so adamant about being cleared?>>

Wouldn't you be??
The case was a media circus.....who would want to be involved with that?
Imagine being a friend of the R's at that time....
I'd be doing all I could to clear my name too.

 

[sissi]

Narlacat you certainly are entitled to your opinion, I've already stated mine Why would it be so important to be cleared while believing the police had their "killers" ,the Ramseys? If not the Ramseys, then why not jump in and do everything you could for your friends to help find the killer? What was there to fear? I'm not sure why he didn't want to be investigated, and it doesn't seem the authorities were either.

 

[narlacat]

Sissi hi

Why would the White's want to help clear their friends names.....didn't 'their friends' throw them under the bus?
Didn't the R's accuse them of maybe being the ones responsible for their daughters death?
Or am I confusing the timeline? or am I misunderstanding your post?

 

[sissi]

No no one was thrown under any bus,IMO, I'm not sure how this idea was perpetuated. Everyone in the house was questioned, Fleet's behaviors raised eyebrows, yet John tossed it up to his being traumatized. Steve admits to much of his book being in error, and Fleet claims nothing in Schiller's book concerning him is accurate, we can only go on comments in interviews which came much later than the "original" bus stories. John did find the word fat-cat odd, and honestly stated the only person he had ever heard say it was PW, he ,as well, mentioned that Westmoreland considered himself an Atlanta fat-cat. It seemed he was clearing this up the best he could and not being biased against the Whites. Patsy during questioning was asked about the plate prepared for Jonbenet, she wondered aloud about it's possible significance. Neither of these things would I call "thrown under a bus". Not sure, maybe someone who believes they were could best explain why they believe ??

 

[Camper]

No no one was thrown under any bus,IMO, I'm not sure how this idea was perpetuated. Everyone in the house was questioned, Fleet's behaviors raised eyebrows, yet John tossed it up to his being traumatized. Steve admits to much of his book being in error, and Fleet claims nothing in Schiller's book concerning him is accurate, we can only go on comments in interviews which came much later than the "original" bus stories. John did find the word fat-cat odd, and honestly stated the only person he had ever heard say it was PW, he ,as well, mentioned that Westmoreland considered himself an Atlanta fat-cat. It seemed he was clearing this up the best he could and not being biased against the Whites. Patsy during questioning was asked about the plate prepared for Jonbenet, she wondered aloud about it's possible significance. Neither of these things would I call "thrown under a bus". Not sure, maybe someone who believes they were could best explain why they believe ??

-------->>>Been watching and reading the written tennis match of opinions here.

FWIW - Fleet took Burke morning of Dec 26, to - choose one.

a. Take him out of the home before the 'body' was found, er?
b. Was Fleet called the morning of the 26, to COME and get Burke, er just to come over?
c. OR when was it decided that Fleet would TAKE Burke that morning?

Review - Fleet came alone the morning of the 26. Am I right?

-----------------

FWIW - Whites were BEST friends with Ramseys,

Questions:
a. Why didn't the Ramseys choose to STAY with the Whites after the murder, rather than the Stines?
b. Did the Whites invite the Ramseys to stay with them after the murder, if not, why not?
c. Why didn't the Ramseys stay in GP's empty apartment in downtown Boulder?
d. How long did it take the BPD to allow the Ramseys to leave Boulder?
d. How was the decision coordinated for the Ramseys to stay with the Stines their non friends. Exactly when did that 'non friendship' establish itself as a deep and long lasting friendship?

---------------

When did we all learn that the bridges between the Ramseys and the Whites had been destroyed?

a. Why did the friendship end?
b. When did the friendship end?
d. Were there in fact two buses, the Ramseys's own bus, and a bus that belonged to the Whites?

Review, I do believe the Ramseys remained under the Whites bus.

a. Why?
b. When?
c. What do the Whites know, that only the Ramseys know they know?

----------Hmmm.

Need one more law, one that states IF a murderer purports their crime to be a kidnapping and IT isn't, it should be a federal offense. Won't happen will it, nah, prob not.

.

 

[rashomon]

But rashomon the autopsy evidence shows that the strangling with the ligature was a real strangling, not a staged one and that it took place before the head bash. If you are convinced that a Ramsey did it then you must come up with a theory that involves Patsy or Burke or John strangling JonBenet with the ligature before one or other of them bashes her over the head with something.

A staged strangling doesn't mean that it was no 'real' strangling, only that the ligature was pulled tight around JonBenet's neck when she was already in a coma from the headbash. The autopsy says death from strangulation 'associated with' a head injury, but the choice of the word 'associated with' does not point to an exact time line. Imo this means that the head blow itself would possibly have been fatal too.

 

[UKGuy]

A staged strangling doesn't mean that it was no 'real' strangling, only that the ligature was pulled tight around JonBenet's neck when she was already in a coma from the headbash. The autopsy says death from strangulation 'associated with' a head injury, but the choice of the word 'associated with' does not point to an exact time line. Imo this means that the head blow itself would possibly have been fatal too.

rashomon,

If JonBenet's death was simply the end result of a ligature asphyxiation and a head injury, and the garrote does not represent staging, then you have a different ball game.

That is if PDI she looped a cord around JonBenet's neck and asphyxiated her, either before or after the head bash.

She must have something dark to hide ...


.

 

[Paradox]

She must have something dark to hide ...


.

Or something hiding in the dark had her ...

 

[sharpar]

-------->>>Been watching and reading the written tennis match of opinions here.

FWIW - Fleet took Burke morning of Dec 26, to - choose one.

a. Take him out of the home before the 'body' was found, er?
b. Was Fleet called the morning of the 26, to COME and get Burke, er just to come over?
c. OR when was it decided that Fleet would TAKE Burke that morning?

Review - Fleet came alone the morning of the 26. Am I right?

-----------------

FWIW - Whites were BEST friends with Ramseys,

Questions:
a. Why didn't the Ramseys choose to STAY with the Whites after the murder, rather than the Stines?
b. Did the Whites invite the Ramseys to stay with them after the murder, if not, why not?
c. Why didn't the Ramseys stay in GP's empty apartment in downtown Boulder?
d. How long did it take the BPD to allow the Ramseys to leave Boulder?
d. How was the decision coordinated for the Ramseys to stay with the Stines their non friends. Exactly when did that 'non friendship' establish itself as a deep and long lasting friendship?

---------------

When did we all learn that the bridges between the Ramseys and the Whites had been destroyed?

a. Why did the friendship end?
b. When did the friendship end?
d. Were there in fact two buses, the Ramseys's own bus, and a bus that belonged to the Whites?

Review, I do believe the Ramseys remained under the Whites bus.

a. Why?
b. When?
c. What do the Whites know, that only the Ramseys know they know?

----------Hmmm.

Need one more law, one that states IF a murderer purports their crime to be a kidnapping and IT isn't, it should be a federal offense. Won't happen will it, nah, prob not.

.

The fracture between whites and ramseys happened quite early. FW confronted John in Atlanta sometime during the funeral activity. FW was astounded that R's lawyered up and were not cooperating. They were on the outs before returning to boulder. So not an option.

The law you mention might help someone else but would have no effect
on R's. Only way a murderer can be assumed to be one is with a conviction. You would also have to prove that they knew for a fact it was
not a kidnapping. R's defense would point to that stupid RN.

 

[Camper]

1. IF PR did 'it', then the note covers her involvement, and JR most likely would have left her by now, as happens in many marriages after a disaster like this.

2. IF PR covered for her husbands older son, then they are together to this day, living with their common secret. This would explain in my mind at least 'why' JR quickly obtained legal representation for the GA leg of his family. The 'victory' in this instance would be that JonBenet no longer has to deal with the 'abuser'.

IF #2 works for the older son, it also works for the smaller one as well IF IF.

In the beginning I remember the media reporting the confusion by the ME in determining what caused the death, strangulation or the head bash.

.

 

[Camper]

The fracture between whites and ramseys happened quite early. FW confronted John in Atlanta sometime during the funeral activity. FW was astounded that R's lawyered up and were not cooperating. They were on the outs before returning to boulder. So not an option.

The law you mention might help someone else but would have no effect
on R's. Only way a murderer can be assumed to be one is with a conviction. You would also have to prove that they knew for a fact it was
not a kidnapping. R's defense would point to that stupid RN.

------->>>Afterthought, IF it would be considered a federal offense and the person was convicted of the actual murder, it might be an automatic death sentence, am I right? At least at the outset we would have the FBI working side by side with local LE, and not being shooed away by a dumbell who thought he could handle 'it' and totally messed it all up.

.

 

[sharpar]

------->>>Afterthought, IF it would be considered a federal offense and the person was convicted of the actual murder, it might be an automatic death sentence, am I right? At least at the outset we would have the FBI working side by side with local LE, and not being shooed away by a dumbell who thought he could handle 'it' and totally messed it all up.

.

Dont know for sure but faking a kidnapping doesnt sound like a death penalty offense . Since the murder would have to be convicted then FBI
wouldnt be involved at the beginning of the crime.

 

[Camper]

Dont know for sure but faking a kidnapping doesnt sound like a death penalty offense . Since the murder would have to be convicted then FBI
wouldnt be involved at the beginning of the crime.

------->>>Note the word and in your quote of me, so purported kidnapping and conviction.

So WITH my proposed possible new law, a purported kidnapping with a ransom note, would ALLOW the FBI to stay on the case using their resources and methods of investigation, until conviction OF murder was done, AND auto death penalty would kick in. IF there was a ransom note the FBI would be OBLIGED to stay on the case, could not be shooed away by the local LE, it would just be a tougher law.

I just wonder how many local police departments in Anycity USA would have handled a call to 911, like the Ramseys call, "We have a ransom note and our daughter has been kidnapped"

THEN the Anycity USA PD finds the kidnapped victim in the family home. Would 'they' have messed up as royally as BPD did? The FBI would have been notified in any of those cities too. Hmmm.

.

 

[Eagle1]

Let's not forget the cord fibers found on her bed sheets.
And the dirt and lint on JonBenet's feet.

Yes, I hope we don't forget those two clues. What could they mean? At another forum someone said there was a smaller footprint in the bsmt mold, but I can't remember if it was a bare footprint or a SAS shoes one. Nor can I picture anyone making just one footprint in the stuff, no evidence of the other foot being in it. Planted, staged footprints?

Camper raises some good questions too, in this "tennis match of opinions".

 

[Camper]

A new thought - IF IF the footie print/s in the basement mold were FRESH as in FRESH the night of the murder, a sniffy dog would have been able to track em down.

There again BPD blew it when they turned down a sniffy dog, not a cadaver dog, a tracking dog would have been useful tracking the mold tracks. Surely they would not have most likely been very visible BUT they would have been extremely fresh and sniffable.

I seem to recall that the print in the mold was from a Hi Tech shoe, sp?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes, I hope we don't forget those two clues. What could they mean? At another forum someone said there was a smaller footprint in the bsmt mold, but I can't remember if it was a bare footprint or a SAS shoes one. Nor can I picture anyone making just one footprint in the stuff, no evidence of the other foot being in it. Planted, staged footprints?

Camper raises some good questions too, in this "tennis match of opinions".

Eagle1,

Could it be that the cord fibers suggest she was initially tied up, either before or after she was killed. After she was dead might make it part of the ransom note scenario that was not proceeded with, so she was left lying in/on the bed.

The lint and dirt on her feet may have multiple interpretations, but like the pineapple, one tells you something about the Ramsey's version of events.

Apparently JonBenet was placed in bed wearing her socks, and that was the last they saw of her until her corpse was discovered the following day.

So JonBenet was up and walking about prior to being killed otherwise her feet should be relatively clean.


These two forensic details imply that there were likely other locations in the house where staging took place.


.

 

[narlacat]

Camper

I didn't think the print was fresh.

It was a print from a Hi Tech boot/shoe yes.

 

[rashomon]

A new thought - IF IF the footie print/s in the basement mold were FRESH as in FRESH the night of the murder, a sniffy dog would have been able to track em down.

There again BPD blew it when they turned down a sniffy dog, not a cadaver dog, a tracking dog would have been useful tracking the mold tracks. Surely they would not have most likely been very visible BUT they would have been extremely fresh and sniffable.

I seem to recall that the print in the mold was from a Hi Tech shoe, sp?

I'm going from memory here because S. Thomas' book doesn't have an index, but he said that HiTech (Sp?) boots were also frequently worn by police offficers, and maybe they left the footprint there.

Re dirt and lint on JB's feet: Where exactly was the dirt on her feet found? Under her foot soles, or just somewhere on her feet?

 

[rashomon]

Yes, I hope we don't forget those two clues. What could they mean? At another forum someone said there was a smaller footprint in the bsmt mold, but I can't remember if it was a bare footprint or a SAS shoes one.

The only footprints mentioned were shoe prints.