The December 23 party

  • #461
<snip>
3. Did John compose the CONTENTS of the note, though he may not have handwritten the note? There's no profanity (swear words) in the note, which is why I suspect John of composing the letter. And, the letter is sort of a "big ego trip."

1. The note begins with Mr. Ramsey, Listen carefully! I don't see John telling himself to "Listen carefully!".

<snip>9. I believe the reports that Elizabeth did accuse John of sexual abuse. A few weeks or a few months later, she wound up dead in a "car accident." Since this was fully investigated, can we assume that it was truly an accident?<snip>

Yes, it was truly an accident.

John Ramsey's daughter's 1992 autopsy of no use in JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation

Elizabeth Ramsey, John Ramsey’s eldest daughter from his first marriage, died in Burr Ridge, Ill., on Jan. 8, 1992.

The 22-year-old was on her way to the airport with her boyfriend, Matthew Derrington, who lost control of his BMW while accelerating into traffic on a wet Interstate 55.

The car slid into the path of an oncoming bread delivery truck, killing both occupants.
 
  • #462
1. The note begins with Mr. Ramsey, Listen carefully! I don't see John telling himself to "Listen carefully!".

That's what I meant. He was framing Patsy. He purposely used words that looked like words that he would not use. And he did include many of Patsys' expressions, choice of words, and so on. The note does NOT sound like something a woman would write, since women are NOT raised to use such violent language. Could also be written by John Andrew. Most of the note feeds "John's big ego" plus there's no profanity. Sounds like John to me.

Remember the suitcase with John Andrew semen-encrusted blanket and the children's book; plus fibers from John Andrew's EA advice on JB's bed - we don't know for sure if John the father didn't frame John Andrew as well.

I am saying that John the father is a devious, evil man. Even to his own children.

He probably killed JB; framed Patsy; and convinced Patsy that Burke did it
 
  • #463
1. The note begins with Mr. Ramsey, Listen carefully! I don't see John telling himself to "Listen carefully!".

That's what I meant. He was framing Patsy. He purposely used words that looked like words that he would not use. And he did include many of Patsys' expressions, choice of words, and so on. The note does NOT sound like something a woman would write, since women are NOT raised to use such violent language. Could also be written by John Andrew. Most of the note feeds "John's big ego" plus there's no profanity. Sounds like John to me.

Remember the suitcase with John Andrew semen-encrusted blanket and the children's book; plus fibers from John Andrew's EA advice on JB's bed - we don't know for sure if John the father didn't frame John Andrew as well.

I am saying that John the father is a devious, evil man. Even to his own children.

He probably killed JB; framed Patsy; and convinced Patsy that Burke did it

Just because the book secreted inside of the blue Samonsite luggage was known for being a writer of children's books does not preclude the book inside was meant for children. Dr Suess wrote and published nude drawings in his only book written for adults.
 
  • #464
Is the title of the Dr. Seuss book, sourced only to JAR's twitter,
a definite?

It sounds reasonable that he, having gone off to college, would've received it as a gift.
 
  • #465
icedtea4me,
But we aren’t talking about complete strangers. I had two brothers and they didn’t freak out over this sort of sharing.

From education based, there's a stringent policy, for my family, and extended family members, that germs jump so drink from your own cup.

Accidental sipping from another's cup doesn't cause a freaked out response but, theoretically, it's part of your personal space being invaded so it's to be avoided.

BRs reaction, or lack of a reaction, to the photo of the dining table with items of the glass, teabag, bowl of pineapple the Dr shows him that BR completely ignores and without acknowledging the pineapple shows what? Why did he appear silent n timid w the pineapple question?
 
  • #466
UKGuy,
Agreed.


RSBM
I would completely agree with this, yet ... why mention MR and PR hand print found on the wine cellar door? Why not JR hand print or FW?


They say they match but like I said what about the scarf on the wet bar? I have not seen this item on the list of evidence but I am sure there are many things we don’t see that were taken from the crime scene that are not listed.
JR departing gift to JB was a scarf? Besides it’s presence may explain PR reaction to seeing the last photo taken of JB. She could have thought oh no!

Exactly.

Patsy lost it when seeing that last photo taken of JonBenet.
Little JonBenet's neck was wretchedly injured in death so a precious gifted scarf to cover the horrendous scar is befitting, oui? How was the scarf depicted as being with JonBenet?
I remember the multi-colored long scarf in the kitchen mentioned being on the narrow glass table against the green painted wall. Police photo?
 
  • #467
Rain on my Parade,
You are correct, but the fingerprints are not date stamped whereas Burke Ramsey's pajama bottoms are.

Much more significant than his prints on the glass, i.e. could just be innocent noise, is his touch-dna deposited on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown left in the wine-cellar.

This links him directly to JonBenet via her bloodstains and indirectly to the wine-cellar, i.e. the gown should simply not be there at all!

So although you can dream up causal chains of reasoning to explain it all away it does seem to implicate Burke Ramsey.

.

JBs Blood drops on gown from a nose bleed? So odd for that gown to be found in the hellhole basement wine cellar.

BR and PR :
TDNA on the pink Barbie nightgown found in the Wine Cellar with the body of JonBenet was identified as belonging to BR and PR.
 
  • #468
Is the title of the Dr. Seuss book, sourced only to JAR's twitter,
a definite?
The police know what the real book was. Maybe JAR is lying. It is funny that he has taken 25 years to show up and one of the first things he talks about is the book. Why? The other book looks like something a groomer would use.
 
  • #469
Patsy lost it when seeing that last photo taken of JonBenet.
Little JonBenet's neck was wretchedly injured in death so a precious gifted scarf to cover the horrendous scar is befitting, oui? How was the scarf depicted as being with JonBenet?
I remember the multi-colored long scarf in the kitchen mentioned being on the narrow glass table against the green painted wall. Police photo?

I highly doubt she would re
Patsy lost it when seeing that last photo taken of JonBenet.
Little JonBenet's neck was wretchedly injured in death so a precious gifted scarf to cover the horrendous scar is befitting, oui? How was the scarf depicted as being with JonBenet?
I remember the multi-colored long scarf in the kitchen mentioned being on the narrow glass table against the green painted wall. Police photo?

DeDee,
The funeral home would have made sure the skin was covered showing JB ligature/strangulation marks. I don’t see how JR’s parting gift for eternity to her would be a scarf? We do not know how the scarf was depicted with her.
Here is your scarf:
It is on the wet bar with the attaché sitting right below it.
JonBenet Ramsey Investigator Ollie Gray Died From ‘Serious Health Problems’
 
  • #470
The police know what the real book was. Maybe JAR is lying. It is funny that he has taken 25 years to show up and one of the first things he talks about is the book. Why? The other book looks like something a groomer would use.

Oh, The Places You'll Go differs from Red Fish, Blue Fish as the former is an acceptable gift for an adult graduate who is going places and provides life lessons.

Oh, The Places You'll Go Summary
 
  • #471
From education based, there's a stringent policy, for my family, and extended family members, that germs jump so drink from your own cup.

Accidental sipping from another's cup doesn't cause a freaked out response but, theoretically, it's part of your personal space being invaded so it's to be avoided.

BRs reaction, or lack of a reaction, to the photo of the dining table with items of the glass, teabag, bowl of pineapple the Dr shows him that BR completely ignores and without acknowledging the pineapple shows what? Why did he appear silent n timid w the pineapple question?

DeDee, Sure germs jump just like saliva when you talk, laugh, sneeze etc. it just seems ironic that BR has a germ phobia about food sharing but doesn’t mind sharing his poo.
 
  • #472
The police know what the real book was. Maybe JAR is lying. It is funny that he has taken 25 years to show up and one of the first things he talks about is the book. Why? The other book looks like something a groomer would use.

One of the reasons why I suspect John Andrew is that he has the two motives: 1) to kill JB to prevent her from speaking about PRIOR abuse; and 2) to frame Patsy.

But as far as I am concerned, John the father also has the two motives. Would not surprise me if they worked together. (And by the way, the ransom note does sound as if it is written by a young man, such as John Andrew. Maybe one of his friends did the actual handwriting? I don't tend to believe that Patsy handwrote the note.)

Why does JAR want to frame Patsy? Well, he probably wants his father to reunite with his mother; he wants Patsy out of the way. NOT because of a desire to see his parents reunited but due to his father's WEALTH. It's greed, not a desire that his parents reunite.

So yes, both John and John Andrew do have the two motives.

Why would Patsy cover-up for her step-son? Maybe John convinced her that Burke was responsible? Or lack of witness protection programs for Patsy and Burke.
 
  • #473
Just because the book secreted inside of the blue Samonsite luggage was known for being a writer of children's books does not preclude the book inside was meant for children. Dr Suess wrote and published nude drawings in his only book written for adults.

Thanks for your response. Actually, JAR has recently confirmed that it was a children's book. And I remember that information from the police investigation.

I'm wondering if that was the attache case? They would need to GET RID of that suitcase.

Thanks again for our response.
 
  • #474
Oh, The Places You'll Go differs from Red Fish, Blue Fish as the former is an acceptable gift for an adult graduate who is going places and provides life lessons.

icedtea4me,
Oh, The Places You'll Go Summary

Before JAR tweeted Oh, The Places You'll Go, folks were saying it was this title:
vck4xjm6pgy41.jpg


Maybe its time to remove JAR from the suspect list?

.
 
  • #475
JBs Blood drops on gown from a nose bleed? So odd for that gown to be found in the hellhole basement wine cellar.

BR and PR :
TDNA on the pink Barbie nightgown found in the Wine Cellar with the body of JonBenet was identified as belonging to BR and PR.

DeDee,
Yes, very odd as JonBenet should really be wearing the gown, not Burke Ramsey's long johns.

BR and PR's TDNA might just suggest both were involved in handling the gown? i.e. BR comes in contact because he was in JonBenet's bedroom or he removes the gown. Similar for Patsy she removes the gown or comes in contact with it, say when dressing JonBenet's hair for bed?

As per the bloodstains, there is only one source available, e.g. JonBenet's sexual assault?

This offers two avenues for spatter to occur,:

1. Just after the acute assault.

2. During the cleanup and redressing phase of the staging.

Assuming the forensic evidence is kosher, JonBenet arrived in the basement already redressed and cleaned up?

So if we cite the bloodstain on her bedroom pillow, and with one source, it appears the stagers missed this piece of evidence. Which might suggest the redressing and cleanup took place in JonBenet's bedroom?

.
 
  • #476
Before JAR tweeted Oh, The Places You'll Go, folks were saying it was this title:
Before JAR tweeted Oh, The Places You'll Go, folks were saying it was this title:
vck4xjm6pgy41.jpg


Maybe its time to remove JAR from the suspect list?

.


Maybe its time to remove JAR from the suspect list?

.


No, JAR has confirmed it is the children's book. Check his recent Tweet. And I remember that it was in the original investigation.

Why should he be removed from the suspect list? Maybe I misunderstood your post?
 
  • #477
PremeditatedCrime,

If JonBenet is already dead what is the motivation for whacking her on the head which leaves no visible sign of injury?

Patsy's fibers are embedded into the knotting of the paintbrush/ligature device, what's sexist about that evidence?

John Andrew has a cast iron alibi corroborated by folks in another state, so he is not a suspect.

Whereas John Ramsey is, likely along with Patsy, a prime suspect.

So on the face of it, looks like Patsy helped stage the crime-scene along with John Ramsey, even the Grand Jury think this, so much so, they leveled COUNT VII (Accessory to a Crime) at them both.


.
UKGuy,
A possible reason to whack JB after being strangled is to divert attention away from the previous sexual abuse of the little girl? This was all supposed to go down as IDI, which implied an out of control sociopath left with a kidnapping-gone-wrong with which to deal. It was necessary to create an impression of frenzied violence. Since the RN draws on movie quotes for its composition, it might be inferred that the unfortunately unphotographed WC tableau is also drawn from film scenes. At that time, the slasher cycle was going strong. "Scream" was released in Dec. '96. Whoever struck JB could not have known that the skull injury would not result in a visibly bloody wound. This may have disappointed, if the intention had been to create a Grand Guignol spectacle, just like in the movies? (BTW slasher films were marketed to a largely female audience.)

MO the suitcase and its contents, et al, are diversions planted by the Rs. While intriguing, it is important not to play along with their many games, which includes Ramnesia. Their home was a mess. The CS was a mess.
Why be surprised by the mess that their conflicting statements created? Actually, perpetual contradictions proved to be a successful strategy for them all.

The pineapple is a part of the evidence over which the Rs had no control. Its importance is that it establishes the timeline. Probably, this fact had not occurred to them as significant during the staging, and then they were perplexed as to its explanation after the autopsy.
 
  • #478
UKGuy,
A possible reason to whack JB after being strangled is to divert attention away from the previous sexual abuse of the little girl? This was all supposed to go down as IDI, which implied an out of control sociopath left with a kidnapping-gone-wrong with which to deal. It was necessary to create an impression of frenzied violence. Since the RN draws on movie quotes for its composition, it might be inferred that the unfortunately unphotographed WC tableau is also drawn from film scenes. At that time, the slasher cycle was going strong. "Scream" was released in Dec. '96. Whoever struck JB could not have known that the skull injury would not result in a visibly bloody wound. This may have disappointed, if the intention had been to create a Grand Guignol spectacle, just like in the movies? (BTW slasher films were marketed to a largely female audience.)

MO the suitcase and its contents, et al, are diversions planted by the Rs. While intriguing, it is important not to play along with their many games, which includes Ramnesia. Their home was a mess. The CS was a mess.
Why be surprised by the mess that their conflicting statements created? Actually, perpetual contradictions proved to be a successful strategy for them all.

The pineapple is a part of the evidence over which the Rs had no control. Its importance is that it establishes the timeline. Probably, this fact had not occurred to them as significant during the staging, and then they were perplexed as to its explanation after the autopsy.

Thanks for your responses.

CS - not sure what this stands for?

Yes, I basically agree with your comments. They might want to make it look like an accident or botched kidnapping (which it wasn't; it was premeditated murder to silence JB). But if you want to stage it as an accident or botched kidnapping - well, the head trauma may work.

I suspect John and/or John Andrew. If John was involved, I suspect that he gave Patsy a sedative to sleep better at night. (Yes, I know they had separate bedrooms.)

And to me, the ransom note does sound as if something a young man (JAR) would write. But are you suggesting that Patsy, who lived in a fantasy world, may have written the note?

Motive: 1) to silence JB from reporting PRIOR sexual abuse; and 2) perhaps to frame Patsy (as her stepson, JAR could have these two motives)

It's interesting that you suggested that the suitcase and the contents may have been planted by the Ramseys. Are you suggesting that they framed John Andrew? After all, they could have just not realized what was in the suitcase. Does that make sense?

Burke's involvement - waking up; being curious (and he was quite a curious kid) - could spoil the plans of John and Pasty to dispose of the dead body PRIOR to calling the police. Burke might see them disposing of the dead body? Is this too far-fetched? Not so sure if John could have removed the body from the house without neighbors seeing. Plus they want to give JB a proper funeral and burial.

Burke's usage: supposedly being the killer. Did John convince Patsy that Burke had done this? Patsy would cover for her own son Burke before she would cover for her stepson JAR.

So what are your thoughts on JAR's involvement?

Oversized underwear - something more likely that a man would do? But I guess the person just chose whatever was available in the basement?

Thanks again for your responses.
 
Last edited:
  • #479
CS = crime scene
 
  • #480
PremeditatedCrime,

The Rs themselves are the progenitors of IDI. They had at least three hours to stage and restage the crime scene to accomplish this scenario. The purpose of the staging was to divert attention away in different and confusing directions. This included items associated with JAR. The Rs knew that JAR was in GA that night, and so, going down a rabbit hole pursuing this 'lead' would go nowhere. It's all just: Hey! - Look over there!

However, the nature of the relationship between JAR and JB is not really known.
 

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