The Doe Network, Part 3: Who is Princess Blue?

[LionRun]

Hi lion -Here is the link to this one i posted above :http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/475dftx.html- maria is the right age for it to be her ring and she was also born in september so could have chosen the stone for her birthdate and imo she resembles the newest drawing albeit older than the drawing looks. She went missing in 1986 in houston also and Velasquez could be a married name different than her high school maiden name. Any hispanic females named maria in the graduating class of 1975?

Could it be possible that they are just off on the age on the remains? 29 isnt too far from 22 - and it could be possible couldn't it that the remains were where they were found for 4 years or moved there?

Angel, I agree that this picture of Maria resembles Princess's recon. The team of forensics specialists who examined Princess's remains recently(completed in 3/07) believe that Princess Blue was most likely white with the possibility of mixed race ancestry where a parent or grandparent may have been black. A forensics team or any forensics specialists were not available to examine her remains back in 1990.

The ME believed her to have been White or White/Hispanic, but a whole team of specialists with state of the art techniques has a different opinion. It is more likely that she was White with a possibility of mixed race ancestry, but I won't rule anyone out if they fit the description at this point.

I cannot find my spreadsheet with all of the names tonight, and the yearbook copies of names are difficult to read. I will try to do that when I can to see if there is a Maria(common--may be several) or a Maria Trinidad or Maria T. in the yb.

As for the age. The ME years ago estimated her age at TOD to be between 17 and 21. The team of forensics specialists who completed their examination in 3/07 estimated her age at TOD to be between 16 and 22. They likely added a year cushion either way. But, it is consistent, and although it is not impossible, Princess Blue would be more likely to have been between 16 and 22 at TOD.

But, she slipped through the cracks for some reason. And, the age being, "off" could be it, however remote. So, I would definitely check further into Maria because the height, facial structure, time-line, and location fit.

Lion

 

[believe09]

Quick update on the City Data forum...the mods cut out links to any other forum (boo hoo) but there is some interest and suggestions that make it clear to me that people are looking around for information to solve this puzzle. There are suggestions to do banners on the classmates and reunion websites, which I am sure you have already considered.

Lion, I appreciate your patience with all of us coming late in the game making suggestions that may have already been covered in other sections of this complicated set of threads...

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

There is a Rosa Maria Hernandez that was in the 1975 REL (Houston) Class. It is also noted that she may have went by Maria Rosa Hernandez. She was not pictured in the yearbook but was on the list not pictured in yearbook. There are a couple of other Maria's that were in the 1975 class but they weren't hispanic.

Just a couple more things: I'd like to know if Maria Trinidad Velasquez was married and if she had children when she disappeared. If she had children, I think most likely we can rule her out as being Princess Blue?? Also, are dentals available on Maria Trinidad Velasquez? Was she missing any teeth, etc.?

 

[LionRun]

Hi RKnowley. It is good to see you. I am so tired, so maybe I just can't think clearly. But, why would we rule out Maria Trinidad if she had given birth? Does it state it the ME's report that Princess most likely didn't give birth or was likely never pregnant?

I wonder if they are two different people because the middle and first name, Trinidad and Rosa are different. So I won't get my hopes up. But, I certainly wouldn't rule her out just yet. I can't find any info about Maria Trinidad's dentals, so perhaps we can find some info to help us further to rule her out or in as a possible match.

Lion

Lion

 

[diamondgirl]

Diamondgirl, I understand what you are saying, and I agree that it is a good idea to understand why and how someone is ruled out. According to to the ME's report on Princess Blue, teeth #'s 14 and 19 were present.

See post 216 at this link posted by the reporter, Craig Malisow.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50140&page=6

From the doenetwork, Elizabeth Campbell was missing teeth 14 and 19.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/113dftx.html

Unfortunately, Princess Blue cannot be Elizabeth Campbell if these reports are correct.

Lion

Thank you, very much I didn't remember reading this. I thought we were just forgetting Elizabeth Campbell, because her sister said she didn't think it was her. OK now I feel better. Like I said sorry for being a PITA, but I didn't want any stone left unturned

 

[LionRun]

Ah, just what we need--folks who leave no stone unturned! That is how we might get somewhere. No worries.

Lion

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Lion, I just thought since the autopsy report said the pelvic bone structure suggested "Princess Blue" was a very young person it meant that she hadn't most likely had any children. What is your take on what it says in the ME's report?

From ME's report:

The lower jaw was intact. The two scapula as well as the hip bones were submitted and the fusion between the first sacral vertebra with the sacrum was incomplete in the anterior portion. the configuration of the three bones of the pelvis were consistent with female-type and the symphysis pubis with numerous pits alternating with the elevations which suggested a very young person. The fusion of the iliac crests of the hip bones was partial in some areas. The sternum was submitted in two pieces and was not remarkable. 22 ribs were submitted. The right first rib aliong with the second right rib showed a hairline fracture measuring 1-3/4 inches in length in the first right rib and 1-1/4 inches in the second right rib. In addition, 1-1/4 inches before the anterior tip of the second rib there was a transveral compression.

 

[LionRun]

Thanks, RKnowley:Blowkiss:. I was sooo tired that I didn't have the energy to think through and find and read the above. Although, it doesn't state that it is believed that Princess had likely given birth, I think that if the pelvic area showed signs of a previous pregnancy(s), they would have mentioned it. Chances are she never gave birth or had a late stage pregnancy, but we can't rule it out altogether, yet. I wonder if there is a way to get hold of the current info from the forensics work-up that was completed in 3/07. It may have more info all around, for that matter.

Lion

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Lion, :blowkiss: I thought Craig tried to get ahold of the report on the new forensic workup that was done on Princess Blue but wasn't able to. I'm not certain of this but I think I recall reading that somewhere.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Another negative against Maria Trinidad Velasquez being Princess Blue is that Maria IS hispanic. I thought it was ruled out that Princess Blue was hispanic?

 

[LionRun]

Lion, :blowkiss: I thought Craig tried to get ahold of the report on the new forensic workup that was done on Princess Blue but wasn't able to. I'm not certain of this but I think I recall reading that somewhere.

I am so sorry, RKnowley. Until recently I researched to find the facts no matter how many threads I had to go through to find the correct answers. But, I have been so busy and tired that I just posed the question. I think you are right, IIRC, that for some reason Craig couldn't get a hold of the current forensics report completed in 3/07. But, boy would I like to dissect that report for info.

And, yes. According to the forensics examination done by a team of experts in the field, Princess Blue was most likely White with the possibility of mixed race ancestry--where a parent or grandparent may have been African American. Note, it does not say for sure that a parent or grandparent were African American--only that it was possible. So we can't rule out someone with no known immediate ancestors being African American.

Also, chances are extremely high that the recent forensics team read the original ME report where it was stated that Princess Blue was White or White/Hispanic. While the recent team did not exclude Princess's ancestry as being Hispanic, they did not include it either. I think they would have if they thought it was a possibilility.

I think we are more likely looking for a missing white young woman/girl who may have had a parent or grandparent who was African American. I think based on what we know we can perhaps research a bit further to see if we can find any more info on Maria to rule her out or in. Then we can perhaps keep and refer back as a possible zebra match. There are a number of possible zebra matches at this point. But, you never know one of them might be Princess.

Thank you for staying loyal all this time, RKnowley. You are a gem of a person, friend, and sleuther:blowkiss:.

Lion

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

I was looking through old posts because I am almost certain that hispanic was pretty much ruled out as a possible ancestry/race for Princess Blue and while I didn't find that information YET I did find the following post by Sloane that she assured as the the age range for Princess Blue was "certain"

Here is her post:

04-28-2007, 04:17 PM
sloane

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1464233&postcount=320
"To those who are granted much, much is expected."
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 194


You are so very welcome, Lion. Most have probably seen that poem before if you have ever lost a pet...

Yes, I can assure you, the age range for P Blue is correct. It's in the ME's report from 1990, and the most recent anthro. analysis agrees. Actually, it is 17-21, but as I stated awhile back SOMEWHERE, the MPCH adds a year onto each end so as to net more possibles in their search for the true match.

On that note, Caucasian is also a definite!! I thought I had said that before, but it seems there is still confusion. There are many ways to determine ethnicity from the bones and the for. anth. has so determined this for P Blue. It is a more thorough analysis than an ME will do in an autopsy. Plus, there is the benefit of 17 years worth of research being applied to the more current analysis than the 1990 one.

Hope this helps,

Source: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1464233&postcount=320

 

[LionRun]

Thanks, RKnowley. I think Sloane has a pretty good idea concerning the facts in this case, and I too believe that based on the recent examination by a team of forensics experts Princess Blue was as you believe, White. And, of course she may have had an African American parent or grandparent.

I also agree with the age range at TOD, and the age range estimation from 1990 is nearly identical to the current one. The older a person gets the wider the age range in many cases. Other factors come into play, like what bones were able to be recovered and how viable for examination were the bones. But, pelvic bones, the skull, teeth and jaw bones, and other bones can be quite reliable when used to determine an age range at TOD for a young woman between the ages of 16 and 22. I am aware of and have stated before that often the ME or Forensics specialist will add a cushion of varying time lengths to either end of the age range.

Chances are that Princess was between 16 and 22. I certainly wouldn't rule out a missing 15 year old or a missing 24 year old if most other things fit. But, chances are Maria is not Princess Blue for all of the reasons that you mentioned and that we realized once thinking this through. I will keep her as a remote possibility, and I am open minded. But, I think we need to move on at the same time and continue our search.

Lion

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

It looks like Maria Trinidad Velasquez may have AKA Maria Louise Velasquez or at least they have the same birthdate. So it is possible Maria didn't marry since she is listed by "Velasquez" in her doenetwork.org information or she may have married then divorced and went back to her maiden name.

Texas Birth Index, 1903-1997
about Maria Louisa Velasquez

Name:Maria Louisa Velasquez
Date of Birth:23 Sep 1956
Gender:Female
Birth County:Nueces
Father's Name:Hijinio Velasquez
Mother's Name:Matilda Martinez

She may have married at one time to:

Texas Marriage Collection, 1814-1909 and 1966-2002
about Maria L Velasquez

Name:Maria L Velasquez
Gender:Female
Marriage Date:12 Jul 1975
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1957
Age:18
Spouse:Gilbert Maldonado
Spouse Gender:Male
Spouse Est
Birth Year:abt 1956
Spouse Age:19
Marriage County:Nueces
Marriage State:Texas Source:Texas Marriage Index, 1966-2002
Roll Number:1956_0016

It looks like Maria L Velasquez & Gilbert Maldonado may have had twin girls November 23, 1975 in Nueces County, TX. They may have had son on 6 Apr 1984.

 

[Chloekins]

Can you believe it? I finally got enough up on my website to publish it. Im still working on it but there are a few topics finished. Have a look at it. Any recommendations or ideas would be appreciated!

http://chloekins95.tripod.com/

 

[LionRun]

Chloe, I cannot get your site to come up, but I would love to see it!

Lion

 

[Chloekins]

Chloe, I cannot get your site to come up, but I would love to see it!

Lion

well poo. I dont know why did doesnt work!


edit: I think I know why. I did it wrong. Lets try this:
http://chloekins95.tripod.com/

 

[LionRun]

Thank you so very much, Chloe:blowkiss:. This is helpful, and I cannot wait for the information about facial reconstruction to be up. Perhaps you can post a thread in the, "Unidentified" section--I think people would be grateful to have this resource. Thank you for taking the time to do this and to share some of your knowledge with us, friend.

Lion

 

[Chloekins]

Thank you so very much, Chloe:blowkiss:. This is helpful, and I cannot wait for the information about facial reconstruction to be up. Perhaps you can post a thread in the, "Unidentified" section--I think people would be grateful to have this resource. Thank you for taking the time to do this and to share some of your knowledge with us, friend.

Lion

Thank you, you are very kind! :blushing:
I will go ahead and start a thread as you mentioned.
I hope to work on the facial reconstruction topic a bit tomorrow.

 

[LionRun]

Wonderful, Chloe! You rock!!

Lion