The Duggar Family: 18 Kids & Counting

[oh_gal]

Enough with the theological debate, please. It isnt permitted on the open board and rarely elsewhere.

Disagree and debate the Duggars lifestyle, but do not call them or it names.

TIA

Sorry.

 

[believe09]

I have read statements of the Duggars where they state they are not "Quiverfull" so to speak.

I am not sure why they feel the need to make a statement like that, given that their lifestyle is the same. I think this is an excellent link that provides some background into both the Duggars and Quiverfull:
http://open.salon.com/blog/nlq/2010/03/08/are_jim_bob_michelle_duggar_quiverfull

I have known many Irish Catholics who not only came from families of 8-13 children, the offspring went on to have 8-13 themselves. I dont think the refusal to interfere with family planning is necessarily specific to one group.

Would I move through life the way they do? Nope. I have finite resources and I have all of the children I can care for. The number I have is perfect for me, and I would and have done what I need to do to keep my balance. So family planning is very important to me.

I feel for Michelle's body. I love that we live in a day and age when there are all kinds of choices to be made on how we want to live our lives and what we need to do to fufill our worlds they way we want to. That includes her.

I wonder why they have chosen the TV route-I have a slightly more cynical view of that choice I guess.

 

[believe09]

Sorry.

You dont need to apologize. It is hard to resist-things like this, imo anyway, sort of hit you where you live.

 

[Melanie]

When you say younger kids do you just mean in general? Or are you talking about Josie?

IMO the kids seem to be developing just fine. They are very smart, respectful kids.

Josie, like most premies, has her challenges but she too seems very smart and happy.

JMO

Did you see the most recent show where they packed up and went to the UK, Scotland, then to Israel? Little Josie got SO sick and required several visits to the doctor and oxygen. The doc suggested that she shouldn't fly, so Jim Bob packed up the gang and left Michelle, Jill, and little Josie ALONE in a foreign country. A week or so later, little Josie still wasn't well, but they talked (or paid) a doctor into travelling with them home.

I wanted to kick JB in the rear. Josh and Anna, as well as Grammie, were there to help the other kids get home okay. And yet he left his pregnant wife and sick child alone. Oh yah, I'm sure they had a camera crew with them, but that's not the point. What was so bloody important that he needed to high tail it outta there.

Kinda showed me just how much he cares right there.

MOO

Mel

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Did you see the most recent show where they packed up and went to the UK, Scotland, then to Israel? Little Josie got SO sick and required several visits to the doctor and oxygen. The doc suggested that she shouldn't fly, so Jim Bob packed up the gang and left Michelle, Jill, and little Josie ALONE in a foreign country. A week or so later, little Josie still wasn't well, but they talked (or paid) a doctor into travelling with them home.

I wanted to kick JB in the rear. Josh and Anna, as well as Grammie, were there to help the other kids get home okay. And yet he left his pregnant wife and sick child alone. Oh yah, I'm sure they had a camera crew with them, but that's not the point. What was so bloody important that he needed to high tail it outta there.

Kinda showed me just how much he cares right there.

MOO

Mel

Yes I did see it. That's what I was talking about when I said Josie has challenges as do most premies.
She has respiratory problems. She got sick.

As far as why Jim Bob left, I can't tell you. That was not addressed during the show.
But, personally, I can not say it means he doesn't care.

I don't know the details.

 

[Melanie]

Yes I did see it. That's what I was talking about when I said Josie has challenges as do most premies.
She has respiratory problems. She got sick.

As far as why Jim Bob left, I can't tell you. That was not addressed during the show.
But, personally, I can not say it means he doesn't care.

I don't know the details.

You're right - I have no proof that he doesn't care. He could have had a perfectly good reason to leave his newly pregnant wife and sickly child to go back to the states.

But they didn't explain it, and left it to me, the viewer, to draw my own conclusion.

And my conclusion, and IMHO, is that he was not being a good husband or father by leaving them in a foreign country by themselves, where anything could have happened to Josie. IMHO - that is not very caring!

My opinion only --

Mel

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I was just reading through some articles and realized tomorrow is Josie's 2nd birthday!

Wow I can't believe it's been 2 years.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

You're right - I have no proof that he doesn't care. He could have had a perfectly good reason to leave his newly pregnant wife and sickly child to go back to the states.

But they didn't explain it, and left it to me, the viewer, to draw my own conclusion.

And my conclusion, and IMHO, is that he was not being a good husband or father by leaving them in a foreign country by themselves, where anything could have happened to Josie. IMHO - that is not very caring!

My opinion only --

Mel

I realize it's your opinion. I was not trying to change it or argue it. That's why I said
"personally, I"

 

[oh_gal]

You're right - I have no proof that he doesn't care. He could have had a perfectly good reason to leave his newly pregnant wife and sickly child to go back to the states.

But they didn't explain it, and left it to me, the viewer, to draw my own conclusion.

And my conclusion, and IMHO, is that he was not being a good husband or father by leaving them in a foreign country by themselves, where anything could have happened to Josie. IMHO - that is not very caring!

My opinion only --

Mel

They didn't really say (on the show) why he had to get back. Maybe they had to get back home for work/dr's appts/other obligations? I just assumed that they had to be back home for some reason.

I didn't really think much of it, but you raise some good points, Mel.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I have read statements of the Duggars where they state they are not "Quiverfull" so to speak.

I am not sure why they feel the need to make a statement like that, given that their lifestyle is the same. I think this is an excellent link that provides some background into both the Duggars and Quiverfull:
http://open.salon.com/blog/nlq/2010/03/08/are_jim_bob_michelle_duggar_quiverfull

I have known many Irish Catholics who not only came from families of 8-13 children, the offspring went on to have 8-13 themselves. I dont think the refusal to interfere with family planning is necessarily specific to one group.

Would I move through life the way they do? Nope. I have finite resources and I have all of the children I can care for. The number I have is perfect for me, and I would and have done what I need to do to keep my balance. So family planning is very important to me.

I feel for Michelle's body. I love that we live in a day and age when there are all kinds of choices to be made on how we want to live our lives and what we need to do to fufill our worlds they way we want to. That includes her.

I wonder why they have chosen the TV route-I have a slightly more cynical view of that choice I guess.

Catholics actually have natural family planning. It's not as effective as other methods of birth control, hence the larger families, but it's not Quiverfull. As far as I'm aware, most Catholic parishes teach NFP as part of their premarital counseling. NFP centers on basically timing intercourse, to avoid fertile periods. From what I have seen, Quiverfull advocates letting God decide, and does not avoid fertile periods of a woman's cycle.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_family_planning"]Natural family planning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull"]Quiverfull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[StephanieH]

Quiverful, from what I understand, TRIES to get pregnant as much as possible, even against medical advise. IIRC, Michelle has stated her first doctor quit on her because he advised he would not do any more C-sections on her and she said it was in God's hands, not his. I am sure her current doctor has waivers "up the ying yang" releasing her from any malpractice claims if anything goes wrong. Michelle is taking her life-and, we now see-the baby's life-at risk with each pregnancy. I think the general population is growing weary of it. When Josie barely survived and Michelle's life was threatened and then she got pregnant again...that was SO risky. There comes a time when God gives us a brain for a reason.

I don't understand having children just for the sake of having children. I would have had many more if I could have afforded them AND had time for them. It's not just money, but time and attention. There is no way that Michelle can pay proper attention to all of her children and give them what they need. How could she? I raised two children and sometimes I felt SO stretched. I would take time to spend with each one and I still wished I had more time with them. You never have enough time. It goes too fast.

 

[EllaMae]

You're right - I have no proof that he doesn't care. He could have had a perfectly good reason to leave his newly pregnant wife and sickly child to go back to the states.

But they didn't explain it, and left it to me, the viewer, to draw my own conclusion.

And my conclusion, and IMHO, is that he was not being a good husband or father by leaving them in a foreign country by themselves, where anything could have happened to Josie. IMHO - that is not very caring!

My opinion only --

Mel

Josie had an American-trained pediatrician caring for her in Israel. She was medically in very good hands. Israel has very good, state-of-the-art medical care, and with the internet and technology available, her DR in Arkansas could have been in touch with the physician in Israel, as well as any medical records needed could have been accessed immediately. Israel is not a 3rd world country, and many, many Americans reside there. Michelle also had the TLC staff there to help her. She was hardly left all by herself, and Josie was not suffering from any life-threatening illness.
There were minor children that needed a parent with them to see that they safely returned to the US. JB had to go with them. I think JB was trying to take care of everyone's needs in the best way possible. He could've returned to Israel once he had the other children at home if the situation warranted it. Michelle was in no danger, and she was capable of handling the situation with Josie.
I can't see that JB was being a bad husband in any way. He was being a responsible parent to his other small children and teens, and to me, that means he was also being a good husband to Michelle by taking care of their children. He also had faith and trust in Michelle...that she was competent and smart enough to take care of Josie's health.
The situation required the Duggar family to pull together and work as a team, and I think it was handled in the best way possible under the circumstances.

I don't always agree with a lot of their choices,or their lifestyle but this is one situation where I do think they did what was best for all of their children.

 

[EllaMae]

They didn't really say (on the show) why he had to get back. Maybe they had to get back home for work/dr's appts/other obligations? I just assumed that they had to be back home for some reason.

I didn't really think much of it, but you raise some good points, Mel.

Josh has a business that needs his attention, as does another older boy. I can't remember which one....but that young man has a towing business. Jim Bob also has a business to run. There may have been some other obligations that other members of the family had.
I think the expense was also a factor for TLC, and the cost of changing flights for that many people, plus the hotel and food charges would've been very costly. As long as Josie was in no immediate danger, there was no reason for everyone to stay.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, the girls sure know how to run a house and raise kids, cook for 20 people, etc. Most girls their ages do not know how to do that.

Most of the "educated....normal" people I know can't budget, cook, fix anything, do their own lawns, raise their own children or live within their means. Their priorities seem to be fixated on money and things, the Duggars seem to value family & friends..

 

[Quiche]

Michelle Duggar Miscarriage Predictable in Advanced Age (12/9)

Quote: Michelle Duggar has had a previous miscarriage in her second pregnancy, according to People magazine. And their last child, Josie, was born 15 weeks early by Caesarian because her mother had preeclampsia, the number one cause of maternal death around the world.

Duggar said that she and her husband will name the child before a burial service.

“I feel like my heart broke, telling my children,” she told People. “We have all been so excited about this baby and looking forward to April coming around and having a new little one in our arms. That was the most difficult.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/...ggar-miscarriage-predictable-in-advanced-age/

and this one


Michelle Duggar After Miscarriage: "The Kids Are Mothering Me Now" (12/11)

Quote: After suffering a miscarriage 19 weeks and 1 day into her pregnancy, 19 Kids and Counting star Michelle Duggar is feeling "good physically," resting at home with her children by her side.

"Our doctor said it was wise to let this miscarriage happen naturally. And so that is what we are going to do," Michelle, 45, tells People, adding, "The kids are mothering me now. Jill, [20], just brought me some food and they are taking good care of me."

http://celebritybabyscoop.com/2011/...ter-miscarriage-the-kids-are-mothering-me-now


Uhh, she hasn't expelled the fetus yet-- I am very confused by the inaccurate use of the term "miscarriage," as it seems the baby is still in utero. The fetus is going to be stillborn... ( http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/259165-overview ) and after her C-section with Josie, I think she's trying to tone up for another attempt. And I also understand that Josie was 15 weeks early due to preeclampsia-- didn't know that! She's playing a dangerous game, and that remains moo.

But, as long as the kids are taking care of her... according to the Wiki page, sometimes the wait for a natural delivery of the stillborn fetus can be as long as two weeks, anything after that poses a risk for the mother and should be medically taken. We'll see, I guess.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stillbirth"]Stillbirth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]



Merry Christmas, kids! :christmastree:

 

[melissasmom]

Most of the "educated....normal" people I know can't budget, cook, fix anything, do their own lawns, raise their own children or live within their means. Their priorities seem to be fixated on money and things, the Duggars seem to value family & friends..

BBM That is one of the main issues that REALLY makes me mad about this family. Michelle does not raise her own children. She has a baby, and then as soon as she weans it (which is always under one year of age)then passes that baby off for the older girls to RAISE. Those girls are NOT helpers, they are the ones who are doing everything in that house. They take care of the kids, do all the cooking, cleaning, and the majority of the homeschooling, etc. Heck, they even do ALL the packing for the family trips. Michelle does none of it. Michelle has not been involved in the raising of her children for many years. I don't care how many chialdren someone chooses to have, that is their right as a human being. BUT you don't make someone else raise those kids for you, especially not your other children. JMO

 

[Melanie]

it's my understanding that any child born after 20 weeks is considered a stillbirth - so she is very very close (and yes, I'd call it a stillbirth myself).

In reality, Michelle is going to have to deliver this fetus and it's not something she'll expel during a visit to the toilet. It could be long and painful and will probably feel like her previous labors

My heart goes out to her!

MOO

Mel

many couples can decide when they want to deliver the fetus. Some choose to wait until the woman goes into labor. Labor usually starts within two weeks after the fetus dies. Waiting for labor generally poses little risk to a woman’s health. If labor has not begun after two weeks, providers recommend inducing labor because there is a small risk of developing dangerous blood clots after this time.

Source: http://www.marchofdimes.com/baby/loss_stillbirth.html

 

[TrackerSam]

There is no way that Michelle can pay proper attention to all of her children and give them what they need. How could she? I raised two children and sometimes I felt SO stretched. I would take time to spend with each one and I still wished I had more time with them. You never have enough time. It goes too fast.

And yet her kids seem well adjusted, polite, hard working and a group of kids any parent would be proud of. And without giving them what they need. :waitasec:I wonder how that happened?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://wonderwall.msn.com/tv/the-duggars-plan-memorial-for-miscarried-20th-child-1657382.story

Duggars Plan Memorial for Miscarried 20th Child

Less than a week after Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar announced the sad news that Michelle had miscarried the baby who would have been their 20th child, the couple say they will be holding a memorial on Wednesday for the baby, Jubilee Shalom Duggar.



“As our whole family is grieving, we also know that God promises to work all things for good in our lives. Our prayer is that Jubilee's passing will help us all realize that this life is short, and our relationship with Jesus is the most important thing. He gives us a peace in our hearts as he guides us through whatever we might face.”

 

[Cazzie]

And yet her kids seem well adjusted, polite, hard working and a group of kids any parent would be proud of. And without giving them what they need. :waitasec:I wonder how that happened?

JMO but it happened by children not being allowed to be children but forced to be parents of their own siblings, and household slaves.

It's disgusting to me that this family has used reality TV to support their seeming (errr, evident) inability to procreate responsibly....

I am very sad for the baby (babies?) who died...they didn't deserve to be conceived by irresponsible parents...

ETA: All of the above is JMO...

I shudder at the Quiver and other arrogant/narcissitic sects...you're special and more deserving of survival? Really?

I know this is a controversial topic, so I'll shup now. :angel:

ETA: all of the above is JMO based upon observation, and of course my own values.