The Farce

[april4sky]

Great post gord :clap: Just what I have been fumbling around trying to say.I dont know if they are guilty or not but the venom and vitriolic posts turn my stomach.So they may not be the most likeable people on earth but so what, folk might say that about you or me.Yes they left the kids alone,not the best decision we ALL agree but at the moment Madeleine is a victim but the McCanns are casualties.

I agree great post gord. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Dr. Creepin]

I havent yet seen any evidence submitted

It was not presented to you!

Police passed their 4,000-page dossier of evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann to Algarve-based public prosecutor Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses. He immediately ordered that the 10 lever-arch files should go before a criminal instructional judge, understood to be Pedro Daniel dos Anjos Frias.

Press reports are now coming out saying the police were hasty in making them arguidos.

[So, you believe the press now?)

And in context: "In the McCann inquiry, given the obstacles that have been created in the United Kingdom, the better tactic would have been to continue the investigation without naming the parents as arguidos," said a source from the PJ.

What is " circumstancial evidence "

There is no evidence of abduction

In Portugal it isnt yet a crime on the statutes to leave the kids the way they did[

Oh! That’s okay then!

Sorry but that simply isnt true - they searched long after the police left - until at least six in the morning

A whole eight hours! But they urge us to keep looking...

they went jogging about two weeks after if you call that immediate - so be it . where do you get the tennis thing ?

I was under the impression Kate went for her daily jog the following day while Gerry went to the hairdresser. He attended a tennis lesson three days after. I’ll concede it may be rumour.[/font]

Kate and Gerry contradicted this by claiming they knew “straight away, she was taken”

when they foud her gone what are they supposed to think?

She had wandered off? Why instantly ‘rare stranger abduction?’[

her mother believed she would give the creepy predator “her tuppence worth.”

so - what does that indicate -

That they don’t really believe she is being tortured by a sick paedo

Kate washed all traces of her missing daughter from her favourite toy,

True she did - if it was such a key piece of evidence the police had ample time to have taken it - it still doesnt mean anything

It suggests she was trying to destroy forensic evidence.

Ahh Mrs Fenn - the person who has shunned any public interview and not been seen once or uttered a public verified statement

Unlike Gail Cooper and countless others who court the media

Listen I have 3 kids - one a toddler - she cries all the time when tired - my two older kids when younger were even known to have the odd tantrum. again crying and asking for daddy in its self is normal

I have FIVE kids and am well aware of bedtime tantrums, which is why it is negligent in the extreme to leave them unattended every night for hours at a holiday complex in a foreign country.

We know very little else about Madeleine, because her parents seldom mention her, preferring to discuss the antics of the twins.

are you serious ? - they have released tons of photos - none of the twins – [/font]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Are you serious? I have seen plenty of pics of the twins, and even more of Maddy. Unfortunately they don’t reveal the character, likes and dislikes of the child. The point is, their indifference.[Internet paedos must be having a field day.]

I have seen Jane Tanners statement from her own mouth saying exactly what she did she was hardly at the bar but back and forward .

It must be true then
]
Her description of the abductor she could not have seen has changed several times

she has been consistent . She saw a man with a child - but not clealry enought to see his face . She has said nothing else . unless you count the endless quotes from the tabs

Long hair/short hair? Carrying a bundle which may have been a child. Then she describes pyjamas

who has been persecuted ???

Pig farmer, Joaquim Jose Marques and cockle picker Joaquim Agostinho have been harassed by the press, Robert Murat has been persecuted by Team Mccann

They initiated a media circus and raised over a million pounds

Your bias again - just about everything you write is written from a negative and callous point of view

If this is not a media circus, I don’t know what is.

which has been squandered on a farce

Your opinion - the public awareness certainly has come up with more in 8 months than the police has –[/font]

Such as? Pig farmers, cockle pickers, look-a-like kids on holiday with their family and a Berber child.

None of this money has been used to assist others with missing children

yet - lets just wait and see . at the moment Maddy is prime concern in their mind [/font]

Yes, let’s!

However, they paid their mortgage with these generous donations two months after Madeleine vanished

Ok - probably not the wisest decsiom . But they have paid that back - again though what does that matter - does it prove anything - no

The money was donated by school children and worried pensioners to find Madeleine, not contribute to a £600,000 mortgage!

Two fund directors have resigned and been replaced by Jon Corner, Kate’s lifelong friend and Ed Smethurst. Brian Kennedy, is paying his fees and for Metodo 3’s fruitless search. They all have a ‘Common Purpose.’

yes to try and find Maddy - or at least find out her fate.

This Brian Kennedy is probably not the tycoon, but Kate’s uncle. My mistake. But all the directors are cronies or immediate relatives of the suspects

Alleged sightings have not amounted to a hill of beans, but proposed book/film/TV deals amount to a substantial sum.

They have cosistently said that they will not be taking up any of these offers - They have not been approaching Opra or anyone - again to me this is just another smear tactic in a long line [/font]

They have done ‘Hello Magazine’ and admit they want to shore up the fund with media contracts. But again, let’s see?


The cheapest and lowest shots - They have not been charged with any crime - nada .

No, but they are the Prime Suspects.

Against police advice Gerry was willing to endanger his daughter’s safety by publicising her eye defect, because it was “a good marketing ploy.”

You don’t deny this!

Home Secretary is impeding progress in the investigation by delaying crucial police interviews

This is unsubstantiated. There is some uncertainty as to whether rogatory letters are being delayed by Eurojust, but ‘The Express’ says the Portuguese are “wary” of British Government involvement”. Why? Because Gerry McCann sits on a Government medical advisory panel. There is a “political shadow” and Gordon Brown called Gerry McCann.

Gerry named his website after a book which deals with cold cases where the victim’s bodies remain undiscovered

The web site is not called that - it is a quote in the site - but the site has its own name

So what? It is a sub-heading and a quote frequently used by the McCann’s, ‘Leaving No Stone Unturned.’ - The True Story of Necrosearch International.

Gerry confessed, this would be a hundred million to one chance, whereas the majority of untimely child deaths occur at the hands of a family member.

what is the point in quoting stats ?

Gerry does

sorry but there has been nothing concrete released by anyone that says the DNA indicates anything ????- not fact - Until we see some firm statements . how can you say thaT?

DNA obtained from hair and body fluids was indicative but not conclusive.

Portuguese police were reported to have examined worldwide media reporting of the case and concluded that the international “sightings” were part of a deliberate campaign of misinformation. “Someone is trying to deviate attention about what really happened that night. And there’s also someone who wants to bring down an investigation that has been carried out honestly and rigorously.”

 

[gord]

it is pretty pointless having this continous tussle - we are so far opposed in views on this case that I cant see us agreeing ever on anything until the case breaks and something happens - so be it

I did laugh though when you said the police are wary of goverment involvement because Gerry sits on a goverment medical advisory panel - yep those old goverment advisory panels - you got to watch them :crazy: :crazy:

I bear no ill feelings towards you DR Creepin , but I just dont agree with you

anyway lets see what happens

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Press reports are now coming out saying the police were hasty in making them arguidos.

NO, the police did not say that. The press said it has been SUGGESTED they said that.

 

[Dr. Creepin]

NO, the police did not say that. The press said it has been SUGGESTED they said that.

Yes, but somehow the press managed to twist this into an "apology by Maddy cops."

Gord, I bear you no ill will either. There is no harm in debating these issues. I rather enjoy it! That's why we are here.

 

[Salem]

I'm interested in the back and forth. I am convinced of the McCanns' guilt so I find this debate quite helpful in doing a self-assessment. Mainly asking myself - was I too hasty in my judgment, was there something I failed to consider?

However, I certainly do not want to "play" sleuthers one against the other or to cause any arguments. So far it seems to me that the back and forth has been positive and not too stressful and I hope that is how Dr. Creepin and Gord both feel.

Couple of things I would like to point out - KMcCann also did an interview with People magazine here in the States. I think the August or September 2007 edition.

The suspect status is not going away according to today's reports (I'll be back with a link).

I believe Portugal's wariness of the English extends beyond Gerry's position and includes the McCann's links to the media and Gordon Brown. Also, it must be considered that all almost all of the forensic evidence we have heard about has been obtained with the help of the English. So PLE "bungling", in my mind, also means English bungling and the English have been involved from the very beginning. Can't trash one, without trashing the other as far as I am concerned.

Salem

 

[gord]

I'm interested in the back and forth. I am convinced of the McCanns' guilt so I find this debate quite helpful in doing a self-assessment. Mainly asking myself - was I too hasty in my judgment, was there something I failed to consider?

However, I certainly do not want to "play" sleuthers one against the other or to cause any arguments. So far it seems to me that the back and forth has been positive and not too stressful and I hope that is how Dr. Creepin and Gord both feel.

Couple of things I would like to point out - KMcCann also did an interview with People magazine here in the States. I think the August or September 2007 edition.

The suspect status is not going away according to today's reports (I'll be back with a link).

I believe Portugal's wariness of the English extends beyond Gerry's position and includes the McCann's links to the media and Gordon Brown. Also, it must be considered that all almost all of the forensic evidence we have heard about has been obtained with the help of the English. So PLE "bungling", in my mind, also means English bungling and the English have been involved from the very beginning. Can't trash one, without trashing the other as far as I am concerned.

Salem

The point about the DNA and bungling - I am not sure when English police arrived on site - I am not even sure that the PJ bungled the DNA - though there is reports that the initial samples taken from the room were all ruined - I just think you cant find what isnt there - the DNA was one key area that could put the Mccaans away - almost all crime scenes now give away massive DNA evidence .

We have a huge trial going on overe here where a guy is charged with killing 5 prostitutes - the DNA evidence is key

Now unless the PJ and Brit Police are keeping things very close to their chest - there seems to be nothing strong enough to nail anyone . In todays tecno age I just think that if Maddy had died in the apartment and was then moved - some clues would have been left. I know this is old old ground and I dont want to open up an can of worms here - but nothing so far seems to have been traced

 

[colomom]

I'm interested in the back and forth. I am convinced of the McCanns' guilt so I find this debate quite helpful in doing a self-assessment. Mainly asking myself - was I too hasty in my judgment, was there something I failed to consider?

~snip~
Salem

Thank you, thank you, thank you Salem!!!

I agree 100%...perfect.

 

[Salem]

Hi Colomom! I have a question for you....... Do you remember the "frozen" copy of Gerry's blog? I believe you posted a link to it some time back. The blog had all the entry's from the beginning. I wanted to go back and look at it, but I can't find it. Was it on another forum?

And you are welcome

Salem

 

[Salem]

The point about the DNA and bungling - I am not sure when English police arrived on site - I am not even sure that the PJ bungled the DNA - though there is reports that the initial samples taken from the room were all ruined - I just think you cant find what isnt there - the DNA was one key area that could put the Mccaans away - almost all crime scenes now give away massive DNA evidence .

We have a huge trial going on overe here where a guy is charged with killing 5 prostitutes - the DNA evidence is key

Now unless the PJ and Brit Police are keeping things very close to their chest - there seems to be nothing strong enough to nail anyone . In todays tecno age I just think that if Maddy had died in the apartment and was then moved - some clues would have been left. I know this is old old ground and I dont want to open up an can of worms here - but nothing so far seems to have been traced

Hi Gord!

I agree to some extent about the DNA. I do believe that real evidence is being "tightly held" for now. But I do agree that it seems there should be some evidence in the apartment and the second location, if that location has been found. However, there are rumors of the apartment cleanup and the book about investigating crimes. I don't know if these things are true, so I don't put much stock in them, but I do keep them in the back of my mind. And from all accounts, it does appear that some forensic evidence was found - we just don't know how much or how "conclusive" it is. Also, I do put a lot of stock in the cadaver dogs. I believe in dogs and their abilities.

Something else that "gnaws" (no pun intended) at me is the fact that apparently 9 people are involved here. I still can not wrap my mind around the fact that 9 people may know what happened and NONE of them are talking. One is a grandmother, for heaven's sake.

And just as an aside, do you think the tip from the "underworld" about Maddie's location to the attorney who is now looking for her, really came from one of these Tapas 9?

Pure speculation on my part, I just find it interesting that the attorney would be out there, spending his own money to find this little girl he never met. I know there is a reward and if he finds her, I certainly support his claiming the report. I mean after all, isn't this something the parents should be doing with the money that was donated? Shouldn't the parents reimburse him from the donations? Obviously, the attorney thinks this is a very good "tip" and it was reported that Metodo 3 thought it was a good tip also, so where are the parents?

Salem

 

[Texana]

I'm interested in the back and forth. I am convinced of the McCanns' guilt so I find this debate quite helpful in doing a self-assessment. Mainly asking myself - was I too hasty in my judgment, was there something I failed to consider?

Salem

Me, too.

 

[colomom]

Hi Colomom! I have a question for you....... Do you remember the "frozen" copy of Gerry's blog? I believe you posted a link to it some time back. The blog had all the entry's from the beginning. I wanted to go back and look at it, but I can't find it. Was it on another forum?

And you are welcome

Salem

There are all here Salem: http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/

 

[gord]

Hi Gord!

I agree to some extent about the DNA. I do believe that real evidence is being "tightly held" for now. But I do agree that it seems there should be some evidence in the apartment and the second location, if that location has been found. However, there are rumors of the apartment cleanup and the book about investigating crimes. I don't know if these things are true, so I don't put much stock in them, but I do keep them in the back of my mind. And from all accounts, it does appear that some forensic evidence was found - we just don't know how much or how "conclusive" it is. Also, I do put a lot of stock in the cadaver dogs. I believe in dogs and their abilities.

Something else that "gnaws" (no pun intended) at me is the fact that apparently 9 people are involved here. I still can not wrap my mind around the fact that 9 people may know what happened and NONE of them are talking. One is a grandmother, for heaven's sake.

And just as an aside, do you think the tip from the "underworld" about Maddie's location to the attorney who is now looking for her, really came from one of these Tapas 9?

Pure speculation on my part, I just find it interesting that the attorney would be out there, spending his own money to find this little girl he never met. I know there is a reward and if he finds her, I certainly support his claiming the report. I mean after all, isn't this something the parents should be doing with the money that was donated? Shouldn't the parents reimburse him from the donations? Obviously, the attorney thinks this is a very good "tip" and it was reported that Metodo 3 thought it was a good tip also, so where are the parents?

Salem

it has always been said thet the truth in a case is always a lot stranger than than the fiction .

If the police know more - ie DNA , a second location - then they are playing a very cautious game - which to me I will admit I cant understand . The are under a heap of pressure at home and in the UK to solve the case - I honestly belive that if they had something conclusive - something hard - they would have moved by now - but who knows

The whole Tapas involvement also just doesnt seem credible - Most of these people have families - why would they all risk jail time - loose their kids to protect any guilty parties with a false alibi - agaion old ground but still has not been explained .

Did the Tapas 9 or someone from the camp - " tip " the new search - well we are now into the realms of an Agatha Christie novel - but as I said the truth can sometimes be way stranger than fiction

If Gerry and Kate had followed every new " lead " then they would never be in the country - and I suppose some might say that they should - but Gerry is back at work and they do have the twins to care for . I am sure that they are watching the reports

 

[SleuthMom]

I just find it interesting that the attorney would be out there, spending his own money to find this little girl he never met. I know there is a reward and if he finds her, I certainly support his claiming the report. I mean after all, isn't this something the parents should be doing with the money that was donated? Shouldn't the parents reimburse him from the donations? Obviously, the attorney thinks this is a very good "tip" and it was reported that Metodo 3 thought it was a good tip also, so where are the parents?

As a mom, I ask myself the same thing.

 

[gord]

As a mom, I ask myself the same thing.

serious question sleuth mom - do you think they should be out at the lake looking themselves ?? is that what you mean ?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Gords question was not directed to me, but as a mother of two children, If one where missing, and they where searching a lagoon for him, I'd be there making sandwiches, making coffee, offering warm towel and soup to the divers...as well and pushing them to keep searching.

If any are familiar with the Anna Waters case, (here at WS), I have brought up her story on a few occasions here on the Maddie pages. The LE and about every one involved originally thought she had drown in a swift moving creek several hundred feet from the fenced in back yard of her home. For weeks and weeks her husband, and older children along with organised search teams searched that creek. Annas mother stayed put. She called volunteers to help search, made food, and kept the search going as long as humanly possible....WITHOUT A DIME of charity. 35 years later, her family is still searching for her. Annas Mother has just recently had a book published about their search...(after 35 years) hoping that proceeds can pay for some ongoing search expenses...like ads in the news paper of a potential suspect...Nope, not a single armband or t-shirt sold

 

[gord]

Gords question was not directed to me, but as a mother of two children, If one where missing, and they where searching a lagoon for him, I'd be there making sandwiches, making coffee, offering warm towel and soup to the divers...as well and pushing them to keep searching.

If any are familiar with the Anna Waters case, (here at WS), I have brought up her story on a few occasions here on the Maddie pages. The LE and about every one involved originally thought she had drown in a swift moving creek several hundred feet from the fenced in back yard of her home. For weeks and weeks her husband, and older children along with organised search teams searched that creek. Annas mother stayed put. She called volunteers to help search, made food, and kept the search going as long as humanly possible....WITHOUT A DIME of charity. 35 years later, her family is still searching for her. Annas Mother has just recently had a book published about their search...(after 35 years) hoping that proceeds can pay for some ongoing search expenses...like ads in the news paper of a potential suspect...Nope, not a single armband or t-shirt sold

I believe you probably would IW -

I am only saying that this is a tentative lead - the resevoir is secluded and miles from the town - I just cant see why they would get critisized for not jetting there - as much as they would for not flying to morrocco and roam the hills -

they have the twins to care for and as you all know a mortgage to pay for . I am sure that when the time comes - if the body is discovered they will make the trip .

To me it just seems to be another stick to beat them with - another thing to demonise them - what they are not searching a far flung resevoir ??

I remember in the beginning they were slated for jetting here there and everywhere .

I suppose it is just me - I just think the opposite - why should the make these maybe pointless gestures to satisfy a hungry and dissaproving crowd , who at the end of the day think they killed their daughter anyway

 

[MCDRAW]

I think the McCains are Da___d if the do and Da___d if they don't.

 

[SleuthMom]

Gord:

serious question sleuth mom - do you think they should be out at the lake looking themselves ?? is that what you mean ?

No, no necessarily . Please tell me if I am mistaken (I could be). Isn't this attorney doing all this search on his own? Why aren't the Mc Canns financially supporting this search for their OWN daughter?

 

[ThoughtFox]

Right, SleuthMom: all the articles say that this lawyer is paying for the search of the lake with his own money. Why he waited until now is a very good question, and why the McCanns aren't involved is another good question.

When that reservoir location first came up, the McCanns were still in Portugal. The idea of searching the reservoir came up in May, but the police decided to search closer to town instead. To my knowledge, the McCanns never went out to that reservoir to search at any time during all the months they were there.

Then the lake and surrounding forest was searched in October, but the McCanns had just gone back to England.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/15/is-madeleine-mccann-in-reservoir-89520-19952559/