The footprints/shoeprints on the balcony

[jjenny]

okay this is what I got from the hinky meter review of Rebecca's autopsy:



http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/08/rebecca-zahau-case-a-review-of-the-autopsy-report/

Based on that info at hinky meter, that's why I thought that Rebecca had been alive prior to her hanging. I wasn't relying on info provided by the LE at all, they've given me enough reasons to doubt them so I have a hard time taking in what they say at face value. I was thinking she had been knocked out first which would explain the subgaleal hemorrhages and then thrown over the balcony while unconscious, rather than being killed and then hung on the balcony.

Yet she had no injuries to her spine, despite the 9 ft long drop, and fractures to her neck bones (hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage) that are more commonly found in strangulation than hanging. It's not actually common to have fractures of hyoid bone and thyroid cartilage in hanging, but I guess it doesn't rule it out.

 

[lauriej]

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from. Adam was 5' 11"

Rebecca was 63.5 inches plus the 26. 5 inches victim was off ground = 90 inches = 8 feet.

Considering Adam's arm reach and standing on tip toes most people I know that are 5' 11" cannot stretch and touch your average 8 foot house ceiling. And, the rope was cut above victim's head which is even higher.

..if it's true that adam was 5'11"---he would not have to "stretch and reach 8'" to simply cut her down.

..with her feet dangling 26.5 " above the ground-- plus her body length ( total 5'3 1/2" ), the knot/noose at her neck would have been about 78-80". ( taking off 10-12 inches for her head, which was above the noose/knot and doesn't factor in..)

..a person who is 5'11" ( or 71 inches ) tall----could clearly reach up (to 26.5 + 63.5=90 (minus her head) -10/12"= 78 or 80 inches) the additional 10 inches or so to cut her down right at the noose/neck------without the need of a table to stand on to cut her down.

..yes--the rope was cut above the victim's head----why???? ( and while standing on the table that he says broke while dragging it over) .

..why? when he could have just cut her down from the ground----does he say that he stood on the (broken 3 legged-table) to cut her down??

..it makes zero sense.

 

[Morag]

Here (from a JVM transcript) is a quote from LE:

FRANK: That`s correct. So after they -- they obviously started medical aid, officers also checked the mansion for anybody else inside the household. We do know that Rebecca and Adam were the only ones home at the time the call came in.

So the officers did indeed enter the house almost immediately. I assume that OO entered the guestroom and 'peered' over the balcony. When he saw the bed with the rope, etc, he probably couldn't help himself- he just had to go in there!

 

[SunnieRN]

Here (from a JVM transcript) is a quote from LE:

FRANK: That`s correct. So after they -- they obviously started medical aid, officers also checked the mansion for anybody else inside the household. We do know that Rebecca and Adam were the only ones home at the time the call came in.

So the officers did indeed enter the house almost immediately. I assume that OO entered the guestroom and 'peered' over the balcony. When he saw the bed with the rope, etc, he probably couldn't help himself- he just had to go in there!

If true, that is immediate grounds for reopening the investigation as it shows tampering with a crime scene. It is a crime to take your own life also.:banghead:

 

[lauriej]

Here (from a JVM transcript) is a quote from LE:

FRANK: That`s correct. So after they -- they obviously started medical aid, officers also checked the mansion for anybody else inside the household. We do know that Rebecca and Adam were the only ones home at the time the call came in.

So the officers did indeed enter the house almost immediately. I assume that OO entered the guestroom and 'peered' over the balcony. When he saw the bed with the rope, etc, he probably couldn't help himself- he just had to go in there!

..detective brian patterson also mentions it in his "Probable Cause" portion of the S/W for 'items in the mansion'.

http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245478/detail.html
----page 9----S/W---

"The responding officers cleared the residence for any potential witnesses, suspect, and/or victims. Once the residence was cleared the responding officers secured the crime scene."

 

[time]

There are only 3 areas on the railing that are truly wiped clean as evidenced by a shiny black surface in each instance.

An approximately 3” area – from 18.25 to 21.25 inches on the “ruler.”
An approximately 1.25” area - from 27 to 28.25 inches on the “ruler.”
An approximately 1/2” area – from 32 to 32.5 inches on the “ruler.”

There is no area on the railing sufficiently wiped clean that would correspond with RN leaning over, and subsequently falling over, as law enforcement would have us believe.

I believe the 3” area might be explained by someone placing their hand on the railing.
Hand breadth:
In males, the right hand breadth varied from 7.30cm (2.87in) to 9.40cm (3.70in) (mean 8.45cm (3.33in) & SD 0.40)

and left hand breadth varied from 7.20cm (2.83in) to 9.40cm (3.70in) (mean 8.42cm (3.31in) & SD 0.40).


In females, the right hand breadth varied from 6.70cm (2.64in) to 8.80cm (3.46in) (mean 7.48cm (2.94in) & SD 0.38)

and left hand breadth varied from 6.60cm (2.60in) to 8.70cm (3.43in) (mean 7.42cm (2.92in) & SD 0.37).
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijfs/vol1n2/hand.xml

The other two areas relate to the rope, as red fiber evidence is apparent on the outside edge of the railing.

Bumping this post

 

[time]

Valhall over at Hinky Meter has provided this case with some excellent analysis.
IMO, however, there is a problem with the 38” that has been attributed to the railing height.
I believe that the entire balcony structure height is 38” and this includes the approximately 2” of base which is comprised of the floor and subfloor grid. The height of the railing alone, IOW, is 36.”
I based this on multiple comparisons with known measurements, including the forensic evidence ruler and a tape measure.
With the much appreciated addition of floor plans from Hinky Meter, I also used the scale reference of 8 feet to compare to the balcony. This produced the same result, 38” overall and 36” for the railing alone.

From the floor plans:

Below, a tape measure marking 38 inches was used to estimate the height

The balcony is broken up into a 2” base along with the railing which consists or two 6” sections and a 24” section

Evidence ruler confirms the 6” section referenced above:

Another bump

 

[time]

Page 15 of the SDSO Power Point Presser

 

[time]

Page 16 from Power Point ... just want to get a fuller picture of the balcony and doorway in here (remember that 11" is actually 9")

 

[time]

So far, I can't find the discussion on the balcony doors, closed vs. open or one door open, one closed. I know in an article Bremner said they were closed. Can't find what LE said. What is the current status of all this if anyone can fill me in?

 

[tvscum]

So far, I can't find the discussion on the balcony doors, closed vs. open or one door open, one closed. I know in an article Bremner said they were closed. Can't find what LE said. What is the current status of all this if anyone can fill me in?

Three photos posted on the Sheriff's web site show the French doors of the mansion's balcony in three different positions.
One exterior photo – Nesbit said it was taken by a Coronado police officer before 9:20 a.m. on July 13 – shows one of the balcony's doors open.
A second photo – taken during darkness sometime after 3:32 a.m. on July 14 – was shot from inside the bedroom and shows both balcony doors closed.
A third photo – also taken after 3:32 a.m. on July 14 – shows both doors wide open.
Lt. Nesbit explained the sequence of events to News 8.
"Photo one occurred first. That was taken by a Coronado police officer who was on scene prior to the sheriff department's arrival," Nesbit said.
"Photo two – showing both doors closed – we believe the door on the left was blown closed by a breeze; the door on the right was secured with a bolt-type lock into the floor," Nesbit continued.
"Photo three has both of the doors open. We (officers) opened both of the doors to take that photo," said Nesbit.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

 

[lauriej]

..Valhall attempts to get herself over the balcony railing-----can't do it.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/10/rebecca-zahau-case-attempting-the-impossible/

Rebecca Zahau case: Attempting the impossible
--snipped---

"I had been asked by someone over at the Coronado Patch if I could try to reproduce Rebecca’s suicide as it currently has been presented to us. This is a two part mock-up of what SDSO says happened on the morning of July 13th at the Shacknai mansion."

..a 2 part you-tube re-enactment attempt in the article...

..and SDSO just expects us to believe this b/c they "say so" in their power point PC, case closed.. ??

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Valhall over at Hinky Meter has provided this case with some excellent analysis.
IMO, however, there is a problem with the 38” that has been attributed to the railing height.
I believe that the entire balcony structure height is 38” and this includes the approximately 2” of base which is comprised of the floor and subfloor grid. The height of the railing alone, IOW, is 36.”
I based this on multiple comparisons with known measurements, including the forensic evidence ruler and a tape measure.
With the much appreciated addition of floor plans from Hinky Meter, I also used the scale reference of 8 feet to compare to the balcony. This produced the same result, 38” overall and 36” for the railing alone.

From the floor plans:

Below, a tape measure marking 38 inches was used to estimate the height

The balcony is broken up into a 2” base along with the railing which consists or two 6” sections and a 24” section

Evidence ruler confirms the 6” section referenced above:

I want to point out that the lights are OFF in this room. In fact it appears there are no lights on. Did she also do this in the dark? Or did someone screwup and turns the lights out ..... when they left? There is a shot taken in the middle of the night by LE and a light is then turned on. Again, though in these shots that overhead light is not on.

 

[curiousjo]

I remember reading that a candle was found at crime scene on the lawn.
Were there any outdoor lights in the courtyard or guest house?

By the way, I think its a great point about mansion bedroom light being off. Doesn't make sense. So, RZ wrote the message ondoor, wrapped her t-shirt tightly around her face three times/gagged herself, bound her legs, bound her arms, placed the noose - then decided to turn off the lights, shut the balcony door and jumped...... All these little details add up.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Curious about the Spreckels family and history of the home. Was this guy an actual descendent. The Spreckels mentioned have a horrendous history.

http://nanbyrne.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/790/

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

In time for halloween.... are these deaths part of the Spreckles curse?

"Both mansions are just steps from Spreckels' Hotel del Coronado, which has been haunted almost from the time it was built in 1888. Two tragic women had separately committed suicide, each taking with them the life of an unborn child. Their ghosts remain in two rooms. The more famous of the Hotel ghosts is Kate Morgan."

here is the link....http://gothere.com/sandiego/Ghosts/Spreckels-mansion-coronado/default.htm

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

An interesting webpage about the construciton of the "beach house" and how it was built out of reinforced concrete. Completed in 1908.

http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/97spring/albright.htm

It looks quite different and was added onto.

 

[time]

I want to point out that the lights are OFF in this room. In fact it appears there are no lights on. Did she also do this in the dark? Or did someone screwup and turns the lights out ..... when they left? There is a shot taken in the middle of the night by LE and a light is then turned on. Again, though in these shots that overhead light is not on.

Nice catch.

Putting ValHall's video demonstration of going over the balcony here also

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYn010FB8c8"]RZAttempt2.MTS - YouTube[/ame]

(just noting though, that the balcony height was determined as above to be 36" and not 38"+)

 

[cynic]

I’ve recently been looking at the balcony and one thing that struck me this time around is the very small size of the balcony, most notably it is quite “shallow.”
I noticed this when I took a second look at the tiles that populate the floor of the balcony. I was looking to see whether I could confirm my measurements of the width and depth using the dimensions of the tiles and thanks to the close up picture of the photo evidence ruler on the floor I was able to do that.

I “moved” the ruler, (in Photoshop,) to have it line up with a floor tile that it was close to.
That tile measured 203 millimeters x 96 millimeters, or 8 inches x 3.75 inches. It is 3.75 rather than 4 inches to allow for grout between tiles. The grout is ¼ or .25 inches wide.
In the picture montage below you can add up the tiles in either direction to show that the balcony floor is 24 inches deep by 70 inches wide. The rail is 1” wide giving an overall balcony dimension of 25 inches deep by 72 inches wide.
The overwhelming majority of the tiles have one of two dimensions: 8” x 3.75” and 3.75” x 3.75.”
There are some uniquely dimensioned tiles on the left side, they are: 1” x 3.75; 1” x 8”; 5”x 3.75 and 5” x 8.”
After drawing out a replica of the "balcony floor" on my floor I realized that there is a misconception out there with respect to how far RZ would have hopped if we assume the police version of events.
As I said, the balcony is remarkably shallow, and I would encourage everyone to get a tape measure, lay it on the floor near a wall, and take note of how close you are to the wall while standing 24” away.
The heel impressions begin at around 1” into the balcony (23 inches away from the railing.)
The toe impressions from the right foot are at approximately 18” into the balcony (6 inches from the railing.)
The misconception that I referred to earlier centers around RZ’s hop being around 17 inches, and that isn’t true. If the mark that was 6 inches from the railing was a heel impression, it would be a 17 inch hop, but it isn’t, it’s a toe impression.
In order to know the length of the hop, we need to know the length of RZ’s foot.
I have no idea what RZ’s shoe size is, but given that she appears to be somewhat petite, I am going to give her an arbitrary shoe size of 7.
The shoe size does not translate directly to the size, in inches, of the length of the foot. A size 7 shoe size means that the foot dimensions are about 9 and 1/4 inches long by 3 and 3/8 inches wide.
http://shoes.about.com/od/fitcomfort/a/wshoeconversion.htm
http://www.doittennis.com/buyers-guides/shoe-sizecharts.php
I have drawn some “size 7” footprints in the picture below to help show the size of a full footprint on the balcony floor. The left foot near the railing is a hypothetical location, but within two inches of the right ankle, which is the furthest it could be away.
Rather than the somewhat commonly held view of a 16 - 17 inch hop, the hop would actually be about 11 inches (heel to heel.)

 

[sundrop]

I am not sure what photos you have been looking at but your diagram is totally wrong. There is no visible left barefoot print as you suggest on the balcony anywhere - there's only a slight indication of what law enforcement claims is a left heel mark, but I am not convinced and neither is anyone else that I know of.

Also, there is no further evidence on the balcony of Rebecca's left footprints, so the diagram that you have is misleading. Also, the notion that both of Rebecca's feet are facing directly towards the balcony railing is also wrong. The position of her right footprints just does not support this at all. You need to go back and do this again.

:banghead::banghead: