The Front Door!

[Goody]

Yes, it was Kansas... and it may have been the Clutter family. It's been sooo many years. I used to work with the man who dated the daughter at the time of her death. If I'm not mistaken, he was the one that found the bodies the next (Sunday?) morning. He said the scene was unbelievable.

What did he end up doing with his life? Did he go into law enforcement or medicine? What type of work did he do?

 

[accordn2me]

You don't do cardiopulmonary resuscitation on someone who is breathing.

 

[HeartofTexas]

What did he end up doing with his life? Did he go into law enforcement or medicine? What type of work did he do?

Sorry, Goody, I don't know what he did with his life... at the time we were both working for an insurance company, but I left that job a year or two later and never saw him again. I mostly remember him as a very quiet man, and very nice and down to earth.

 

[beesy]

You don't do cardiopulmonary resuscitation on someone who is breathing.

Of course not! That's not what Goody or I mean. He needed pressure put on his wounds, he needed comfort, he needed more than he got! I don't know if there is a way to help him breathe with blood in his lungs without medical equipment. Would rolling him over have helped? I don't know, but with Darin's 7 years of medical training, he knew something to do.
And you don't do CPR for an extended period on an obviously dead person either

 

[beesy]

You are right, the meth thing is pushing crime further and further out into what used to be considered safe places. I was reminded of this during the Groene abduction case. Duncan abducted those children from their home in rural Wolf Creek, Idaho after killing all the adults. While the search was going on for the kids, I cannot tell you how many of the locals posted that their area out there in the wilderness was still a safe place and that the murder victims were probably known to the perp, blah X 3, because of drugs, etc. No one would have believed that the murderer picked the kids at random while driving down the interstate and spotting the kids playing in their yard.

You know we've said how we can tell if a parent is being real or not in interviews? I looked right into that father's eyes and knew he didn't have a thing to do with the murders and/or abduction. That man was hurt to his very core. About as redneck as they come, but his pain was real and raw.

 

[Goody]

You don't do cardiopulmonary resuscitation on someone who is breathing.

CPR is not the only thing taught in first aid classes. I think it is safe to assume that Darin also knew how to apply pressure to a bleeding wound to slow down the bleeding.

 

[Goody]

Of course not! That's not what Goody or I mean. He needed pressure put on his wounds, he needed comfort, he needed more than he got! I don't know if there is a way to help him breathe with blood in his lungs without medical equipment. Would rolling him over have helped? I don't know, but with Darin's 7 years of medical training, he knew something to do.
And you don't do CPR for an extended period on an obviously dead person either

You do on a heart attack victim, but I doubt if doctors would continue for an extended period of time on a victim who has bled to death.

 

[beesy]

You do on a heart attack victim, but I doubt if doctors would continue for an extended period of time on a victim who has bled to death.

I was recently talking to someone on the Dr. Mac board. I was asking if anybody thought Colette checked on Kimmie. I find it hard to believe that even though Colette would have seen Kimmie hit in the head, she wouldn't have checked her, hoping things weren't as bad as they appeared. Somebody suggested that Colette did check on Kimmie, but then heard Kristi being attacked and did a "triage" as she said, left Kimmie and went to help Kristi. That is exactly what Darin should have done and most likely would have if he wasn't helping Darlie by then. Colette knew by looking at her that Kimmie was gone, but Kristi was still alive. Did she linger trying to revive Kimmie, no, she did the right thing and tried to save her other little girl.

 

[Goody]

That is exactly what Darin should have done and most likely would have if he wasn't helping Darlie by then. Colette knew by looking at her that Kimmie was gone, but Kristi was still alive. Did she linger trying to revive Kimmie, no, she did the right thing and tried to save her other little girl.

Exactly. What you describe is automatic instinct for most of us and most of us don't have any first aid training. I am just amazed that someone who did would not even try to help Damon, esp once it became obvious that Darlie wasn't going to do anything for him.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I am just amazed that someone who did would not even try to help Damon,

Well, unless both of you were trying desperately to cover up for one of you being a murderer (Darlie), and doing anything to save Damon might lead to him identifying his mother as the one who tried to kill him. Under those circumstances, I think you could avoid helping him indefinitely (if you apply that mindset which, obviously, isn't the way normal people think).

 

[Goody]

Well, unless both of you were trying desperately to cover up for one of you being a murderer (Darlie), and doing anything to save Damon might lead to him identifying his mother as the one who tried to kill him. Under those circumstances, I think you could avoid helping him indefinitely (if you apply that mindset which, obviously, isn't the way normal people think).

Which means that these two had to have talked before the 911 call was made unless we accept that Darin just looked around and figured it out on his own and then made a conscious decision to protect Darlie rather than defend his kids. How on earth does a guy do that? Most men would have hated their wife for doing such a thing. At the very least temporarily. They wouldn't automatically jump from fear and worry about the kids making it to protecting the one who killed them. That would take some time, I would think.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I definitely lean towards them talking prior to the 911 call. Obviously, none of us knows what happened that night (much to my chagrin!) but there are too many oddities about the events, actions and conversations of that night for me to believe it all just fell into place the way it did. There are too many lies and inconsistencies for me to believe a lot of what they've both said. Sure, there's no doubt pieces of truth located in each statement... but not the whole truth by any stretch (IMO). And for whatever reason I have trouble making Darin involved in the actual killing, that only leads me to believe she did it but he helped cover it up. And while I don't think he was involved in the murders, I also don't happen to think he's got much depth to him which means he could have instantly chosen her and her freedom over any other choices he could have made that night. I think they were both young and incredibly shallow and had a "disposable society" mentality about them.

I could be totally wrong, and there could also be many other underlying factors involved (her having something to hold over his head, drugs, etc.)... but my bottom line is that they conspired together to cover up her crimes. There is just no other way I can justify in my mind that he didn't go near Damon that night, and nor did she.

 

[Cowgirl]

I definitely lean towards them talking prior to the 911 call. Obviously, none of us knows what happened that night (much to my chagrin!) but there are too many oddities about the events, actions and conversations of that night for me to believe it all just fell into place the way it did. There are too many lies and inconsistencies for me to believe a lot of what they've both said. Sure, there's no doubt pieces of truth located in each statement... but not the whole truth by any stretch (IMO). And for whatever reason I have trouble making Darin involved in the actual killing, that only leads me to believe she did it but he helped cover it up. And while I don't think he was involved in the murders, I also don't happen to think he's got much depth to him which means he could have instantly chosen her and her freedom over any other choices he could have made that night. I think they were both young and incredibly shallow and had a "disposable society" mentality about them.

I could be totally wrong, and there could also be many other underlying factors involved (her having something to hold over his head, drugs, etc.)... but my bottom line is that they conspired together to cover up her crimes. There is just no other way I can justify in my mind that he didn't go near Damon that night, and nor did she.

I have to say, this summary comes as close to mine as I can get my mind around. I still have reservations about believing Darin knew and knows. I could still be convinced of his total oblivion--he seems that dumb to me. Anyone who saw that tramp and fell in love at first sight has no taste, obviously. But to cover up the murder of his two boys is equally incomprehensible to me.

I have to discount her really having anything to hold over his head though. There is nothing as bad as murdering her children and once she was convicted, enough time had passed that he could then just say, she is desperate and making stuff up. And, if she gets serious about pointing fingers at him, that is exactly what he will say. A dead woman walking will say anything.

 

[Cowgirl]

Which means that these two had to have talked before the 911 call was made unless we accept that Darin just looked around and figured it out on his own and then made a conscious decision to protect Darlie rather than defend his kids. How on earth does a guy do that? Most men would have hated their wife for doing such a thing. At the very least temporarily. They wouldn't automatically jump from fear and worry about the kids making it to protecting the one who killed them. That would take some time, I would think.

Oh, I so agree. Every man I know would try to kill the biatch themselves.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Cowgirl, I also don't think she had anything "that" substantial to hold over his head... it doesn't come into play in any of my scenarios. But the two of them were so screwy, I'm willing to make allowances for almost anything! And to further clarify... I think the first time he came downstairs, and who knows under what circumstances that was, that he caught her in the act of one of the crimes (even if it was just her cutting her own throat). Thus, he knew immediately she was responsible... and he immediately chose saving her at that instant. Anything relating to "holding something over his head" would have come days later, or even much later, when he "might have" waivered a bit. This could have included her knowing about him wanting to hire someone to rob his house (which came out many years later) or any other equally bizarre things we know nothing about. Initially, though, I think he acted from sheer gut instinct, and his gut instinct was to save his prized Darlie. Makes me sick to even contemplate such a thought, but I do think that's what he did.

 

[Cowgirl]

What you are saying has such a ring of truth for me, Heart. You know how some people are just repulsive and you don't know why? You know how some guys are just a turn off and it is not really any one thing you could say, "Here, fix this and you will be better..."?? That is how Darin strikes me. We laugh about his mullet, his goofy look. He probably has bad breath...now, I have no way of knowing that, he just strikes me that way! So the minute he saw trampy, I mean Darlie, he fell in "love" the same way he would with every woman he ever saw because he never had any of them. Darlie and Mommy parlayed that into a husband she could control and she really mesmerized him once she got that set of !

That is the kind of guy who would cover for his psychopath wife. That is the only way I can get my mind around it. Most men would try to kill a wife who did that to their kids. To ANY kids. As far as planning it together? Only if he is a psychopath too, and somehow, that is not my sense of him.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I agree 100%! And I love this line... "so the minute he saw trampy, I mean Darlie, he fell in "love"... Soooo true. The only thing I might change is substituting "lust" for "love". When you look at Darin's mom (Sarilda?), and then you look at Darlie, you are light years apart in appearance. I bet he felt like he had married a movie star when he "won" his prized Darlie. And, as you said, once her chest was supporting melons, he never had a clear thought again. The whole story is just so strange and sad that, even after all these years, I still want to hear one of them tell the truth. Won't ever happen! But I would love to hear it nonetheless.

 

[beesy]

I definitely lean towards them talking prior to the 911 call. Obviously, none of us knows what happened that night (much to my chagrin!) but there are too many oddities about the events, actions and conversations of that night for me to believe it all just fell into place the way it did. There are too many lies and inconsistencies for me to believe a lot of what they've both said. Sure, there's no doubt pieces of truth located in each statement... but not the whole truth by any stretch (IMO). And for whatever reason I have trouble making Darin involved in the actual killing, that only leads me to believe she did it but he helped cover it up. And while I don't think he was involved in the murders, I also don't happen to think he's got much depth to him which means he could have instantly chosen her and her freedom over any other choices he could have made that night. I think they were both young and incredibly shallow and had a "disposable society" mentality about them.

I believe that during the fight with Darin earlier that evening, Darlie made some sort of stupid threat, like she'd kill herself and take the boys with her... or something like that. He shot back with "oh yeah right, go ahead, you don't have the nerve to do that", probably referring more to Darlie killing herself than the boys anyway. I think she met his dare, except just the part about killing the boys. I can even hear her saying to Darin, "see, you made me do this"! So Darin's shock was real, but only to a certain point. He might even feel total responsibility for the murders. That means they must have talked before the 911 call. But his account of running down the stairs was real, it just happened before he says it did. This could account for all of the different jeans and glasses
stories too.And hey as far as how he sounds on the 911 tape, maybe he's just a better actor! I looked up wiley, which is what I've called him before(besides doofus)LOL and it said something about the ability to change faces and manipulate others.
Goody has spoken about Darlie liking pretty things, quiet things. Remember those silly pix of the boys posing like dolls in their white tuxes? How much longer do you think she'd be able to talk them into taking a photo like that again? Most likely never! The poor things. They weren't children to her or maybe Darin either. They were something to show off, "see how pretty my boys are?" There's your theory right there Heart, the boys were disposable. They weren't quiet and pretty anymore, they were growing up, especially Devon.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Beesy, I agree re them having similar words during their fight earlier in the evening. I believe I've even outlined a similar scenario on another thread. I still think there was some kind of talk after Darin came downstairs, no matter how brief... something to the effect of, "omygawd, Darlie, how could you have done this... what are we going to do now... oh geez, we've got to make it look like someone else did this to you and the boys." And it went from there, no matter how ill thought out their plan was.

 

[Goody]

I could be totally wrong, and there could also be many other underlying factors involved (her having something to hold over his head, drugs, etc.)... but my bottom line is that they conspired together to cover up her crimes. There is just no other way I can justify in my mind that he didn't go near Damon that night, and nor did she.

I agree with you, but I don't think even a would worry much about drug charges or theft conspiracies in the shadows of such a brutal crime involving family members. Most guys would have spilled their guts about anyone or anything they thought might have led to the attack on their children. The cops wouldn't even have to ask the questions to get to the truth. So Darin's silence is about more than Darlie having something over his head. In my view, the only thing she could have big enough to keep him quiet is his involvement in the murders/crime or planning of it.

I think something unknown caused the attack on Devon and that Damon slept thru it. Little boys can sleep thru earthquakes. Darlie desperately tries to clean up but blood has a mind of its own. It goes everywhere.

Darin discovers the scene and argues with her, maybe they even struggle over the knife. They talk for 45 minutes or so. During that time Darin decides to help Darlie cover up the crime. He quickly points out that cleaning up the crime scene won't work, that they have to stage it and make it look believable. They work together coming up with a story, even walking quickly toward the UR door and only staging what they feel would have been disturbed. That is why so few things are staged, why they didn't overdo it as many criminals do when trying to hide the truth. (The vacuum and the wine glass were big mistakes though)

Damon becomes the sacrificial lamb. How are they going to explain why one child is murdered and the other left unharmned?

Damon is still sleeping and wakes when he is stabbed in the back. They think he will die as quickly as Devon did, but he doesn't. At some point during the staging, they realize Damon has crawled to the other side of the room. Darlie steps up and over the couch, braces herself on the little glasstop table behind the couch and catches up to Damon. She stabs him again.

Only one bloody fingerprint is left on the little table, probably because she has something in her hand that protects or prevents the other fingers from making contact with the tabletop. (The knife maybe?) Maybe it is during this leap over the couch that she accidentally stabs her right arm with the knife her left hand is holding in possibly an odd grip.

Darin doesn't tell her to cut her throat. It was probably her idea, but he tells her how to avoid her windpipe and vocal chords, warns her not to go deep. She cuts her throat, but before she does, she goes into the UR where her arm drips. She pulls the UR door open with a bloody hand leaving the blood there. She leans into the garage to look at the screen or to call out to Darin, assuming he is the one out there (although she could have cut it herself during their staging before Damon's second attack.) When she leans out to look, she may have transferred a speck of blood onto the garage floor.

Darin makes the sock run. When he returns, they go to their prearranged positions --he with Devon and she to the phone to call 911. And the drama begins.